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Old 08-26-2010, 16:56   #1
Kicking bird
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4" 357 loads?

Hey Folks,
Looking for a load for a 4" Ruger Security Six. I have some loads with H110 but am wondering if that the right powder.

Looking for some woods carry loads: maybe a deer load under twenty yds-bow range.

I have looked in my Sierra manual and figured maybe a Herco load or 2400 load but wonder if short barrels waste that powder.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 08-26-2010, 17:28   #2
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180gr hornady xtp
12.5gr 2400
col= as big as your gun can take while still crimping in the cannelure
You also need a mag. primer and heavy crimp I get 1050 fps in my gp100 4 inch bbl.
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Old 08-26-2010, 17:29   #3
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I get 1,250 from a 4" barrel with a 158 grain XTP with 14.6 grains 2400 in Starline brass with CCI's small magnum primer. This is out of Lyman 49 (goes up to 14.9 grains max). Pretty stout load for a .357 mag and very accurate. Standard primer only drops it 50 fps in my experience, and gives you a little more wiggle room. As always, work up carefully.

I never got into H110, but for mag loads, it seems to get you to the top end.


One more thing I found developing this "woods load" for my .357... I tried 180 grain bullets, but they just lost too much velocity coming out of a shorter barrel. The 158's seemed to be the better compromise.
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Old 08-26-2010, 17:32   #4
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Side note - when testing the 158 recipe, I did take them up to 14.9 grains, but wasn't seeing any improvement in accuracy or difference in speed, so I backed off a tad.
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Old 08-26-2010, 17:38   #5
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Try 13.5grns. H-110/w/180grn. bullet and a hard, firm crimp. I use Win. 296 but it's the same exact powder as H-110. Accurate and powerful BG load. Might be a bit hard to handle in a light gun like the SS but you'll like the results.
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Old 08-26-2010, 17:42   #6
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zombie steve did you do any penetration tests between the 180 and 158. i shot through 6 gallon milk jugs with the 180 xtp and it went through all of them from 10 ft away. i need to do it with a 158 but got to go buy some.
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Old 08-26-2010, 18:23   #7
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I did shoot wetpack with both. The numbers are in the garage with my data, but in my gun the 158's came out on top. I have no doubt the 180's would penetrate more out of a 6" barrel, but in my case it was pretty clear. I'm loading some .223 later, so I'll grab the book in a bit.
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Old 08-26-2010, 19:23   #8
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A 158grJHP is all you will need for the biggest deer. You will always get the most vel form the slower powders, even in the shortest barrels. You will pay for that in a huge fireball & muzzle blast though. I can get 1300fps in my 2 1/2" M66 w/ Unique & 125gr bullets or 1350fps w/ H110, The muzzle blast is a lot more tolerable w/ the Unique loads.
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Old 08-26-2010, 19:32   #9
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Thanks Guys,
I did forget to state that I am shooting 158gr XTP or Sierra JHP.

Thanks for the inform !!!
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Old 08-26-2010, 21:00   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
A 158grJHP is all you will need for the biggest deer. You will always get the most vel form the slower powders, even in the shortest barrels. You will pay for that in a huge fireball & muzzle blast though. I can get 1300fps in my 2 1/2" M66 w/ Unique & 125gr bullets or 1350fps w/ H110, The muzzle blast is a lot more tolerable w/ the Unique loads.
Fred, per usual, hit the nail on the head. For a 4" or less barrel, I'd load Silhouette. It's a medium-slow pistol powder with flash retardent, and you could easily get to 1300fps with it. All you need, and a lot less flash and bang than the ultra-slows. So, the question is: Is that extra 150fps worth all the flash and blast of the slow powders to you?
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:04   #11
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HPs/SPs are OK for deer - if you can always get a good shot.

For my money I like 180grn. plain lead bullets with a big, wide, flat meplat. They'll penetrate from just about any angle, break bones with ease, and cut a nice round .357 whole all the way through. I like the LBT bullets from Cast Performance.
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Old 08-27-2010, 18:34   #12
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I've stopped using 2400 in my .357 loads, gives me too much unburned powder. Not sure if I should try mag primers, check my crimp or ?? And my S&W M-19 is very intolerant of unburned powder, it falls under the ejector star and binds up the works.

Switched to 296 and 140gr Hornady XTPs. Tastes great, less filling! Much cleaner burning. Don't remember the exact charge weight off the top of my head, but it's book max. I haven't tried it with the 158gr XTPs yet, but I have no doubts it would be perfect.

As a side note, the load I was using with 2400 and 158gr XTPs was good for about 1225-fps from my 4" 19. Haven't chrono-ed the 140/296 combo yet, but I expect 1300-1400. Need to do a chrony trip with a BUNCH of stuff actually....
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:32   #13
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wanderinwalker,
The single biggest thing that will reduce the unburnt powder is to increase the load. I am NOT recommending that you exceed published data, what I am saying is to look at some of the older data with higher charge weights. Also, keep the muzzle up when you dumpt the empties.
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:40   #14
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wanderinwalker,
The single biggest thing that will reduce the unburnt powder is to increase the load. I am NOT recommending that you exceed published data, what I am saying is to look at some of the older data with higher charge weights. Also, keep the muzzle up when you dumpt the empties.
You beat me too it WT. Rule of thumb, the slower the powder the less you can rduce the load & get good results. Run 2400 well above midrange, good crimp, it burns fine. MY only issue w/ H110/W296, it's full throttle or a bit less, but it doesn't toleate downloading much.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:45   #15
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H110 is a great powder for .357Mag. Hard to find in this area. I've got a pound left; then again, I only shoot 357 Mag/Max out of a single shot contender. Takes a while to go through a lot of rounds.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:04   #16
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I've used 14.0 grs. of 2400 with a Hornady or Sierra 158 gr JHP with really good results. This load is accurate, but has a 'bark' to it.
It will get your attention in a 2-1/2" to 4" barrel.

I've never been a fan of H-110/W296.
From 0 to MAX velocity and pressure, immediately.
No thanks.
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:29   #17
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I'm getting excellent velocities, accuracy and less recoil using upper limit AA #9 going heads-up with upper limit W296 and H110.

From a MidwayUSA review quote regarding the Winchester 158gr JHP notched;

Quote:
Date posted: 2/8/2010
This is the bullet I use in my .357 magnum. My second largest deer - field dressed at 175 pounds - was dropped by this bullet at 50 yards. It hit a rib on the way in, went through both lungs, and hit a rib while exiting. Nothing wrong with the accuracy or performance of this bullet.
From my load data;

Thought I'd share some .357mag load data using 3 different powders to shed some additional light on this very popular caliber.

Mention .357mag, or .44mag, and reloaders tend to think about slow burning magnum powders such as Winchester 296 and Hodgdon 110.

S&W M686/6" barrel, 158gr Winchester JHP notched, Winchester pre-primed brass, COAL 1.580", 5 shot strings. (ES - extreme spread, SD - standard deviation, both measured in feet per second)

W296, 16.6grs; (Hodgdon data max for the 158gr XTP is 16.7grs, Hornady data max is 16.0grs)
1394fps/682fpe, ES 28fps, SD 10fps

H110, 16.5grs; (Hodgdon data max for the 158gr XTP is 16.7grs, Hornady data max is 15.6grs)
1404fps/692fpe, ES 25fps, SD 10fps

Having experimented with Accurate Arms #9 powder in .44mag and getting excellent velocity/group size numbers, it seemed natural to test this powder in .357mag, same set-up as above.

AA #9, 14.8grs; (Accurate powder data for the 158gr XTP is 15.0grs, Hornady data max is 11.5grs - Accurate beginning load is 13.5grs; 2.0 more grains than Hornady's max limit)
1437fps/724fpe, ES 46fps, SD 16fps --- very tight group, excellent first shot accuracy.

For those who handload the .357mag, AA #9 is a powder that should be seriously considered.

I've loaded Lil'Gun recently, but haven't gone to the range to chronograph it yet, lots of rain here means lots of mud.

Bob
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Old 08-28-2010, 14:05   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjpet View Post
Try 13.5grns. H-110/w/180grn. bullet and a hard, firm crimp. I use Win. 296 but it's the same exact powder as H-110. Accurate and powerful BG load. Might be a bit hard to handle in a light gun like the SS but you'll like the results.
I've read about W296 and H110 being the same powder, but since the OP may be loading 158gr Sierras; their data for W296 is from 15.9grs-17.3grs, surpassing Hodgdon's upper limit weight. By comparison their H110 loading data is 13.3grs-16.3grs; quite a bit of difference between the 2 powders.

BTW, years ago I did a number of century (100 miles) bike rides starting at Hyrum lake, going up a very steep hill in Richmond, into Franklin Idaho, then another long, steep ride into Clarkston (IIRC) followed by the long descent to Wellsville and finally back to Hyrum Lake. One year my oldest daughter, who was 13 at the time, did the century ride with me; our time was about 6hrs 30min. Nice part of the world to explore.

Bob
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Old 08-28-2010, 22:36   #19
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I've read about W296 and H110 being the same powder, but since the OP may be loading 158gr Sierras; their data for W296 is from 15.9grs-17.3grs, surpassing Hodgdon's upper limit weight. By comparison their H110 loading data is 13.3grs-16.3grs; quite a bit of difference between the 2 powders.

BTW, years ago I did a number of century (100 miles) bike rides starting at Hyrum lake, going up a very steep hill in Richmond, into Franklin Idaho, then another long, steep ride into Clarkston (IIRC) followed by the long descent to Wellsville and finally back to Hyrum Lake. One year my oldest daughter, who was 13 at the time, did the century ride with me; our time was about 6hrs 30min. Nice part of the world to explore.

Bob

All I can do is report what the Hodgdon people relayed to me years ago: H-110/W296 are the same powder, just like HS-6 and the old W540 were.

As to your bike racing, you've got the towns pegged right. This valley was something to see in the early 70s. Californicated beyond belief nowadays. I wish I was 27 again instead of 57 because I'd leave for Montana and start over.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:36   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
wanderinwalker,
The single biggest thing that will reduce the unburnt powder is to increase the load. I am NOT recommending that you exceed published data, what I am saying is to look at some of the older data with higher charge weights. Also, keep the muzzle up when you dumpt the empties.
Thanks WhiskyT, I may try working with heavier charges of 2400 when I get back to making .357s. Also, I DO point the muzzle up when emptying a revolver, just because I am in the habit of doing it to make a quick reload with a speedloader anyway. (I also normally let the brass drop to the table or floor rather than catch it...)

But I confess, I like what I am getting with 296 for now and don't find it at all bothersome to shoot.
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