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Old 11-18-2002, 16:10   #1
Drjones
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G27 mag question...

Hi. Got a new-to-me 27, and I have a question:

The mags are std. 9-rounders. When I load the mag to capacity, it is quite difficult to seat the mag in the gun. Also, assuming the chamber is empty, it is also difficult to rack the slide on a full mag. Is this normal? The gun had about 2,000 through it from first owner, so should be broken in...

Also: Is it ok to load Glocks from an open slide? i.e.; locking open slide and just dropping one in the tube. Or is it better to load from the mag?

Thank you!
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Old 11-18-2002, 17:12   #2
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load from mag,as to not screw up extractor. 9rd mags are for reloads with slide open.
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Old 11-19-2002, 10:34   #3
Steve Koski
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Wrong.

The mag springs may still be a bit stiff, but even with broken in springs the mag is going to require a firm slap to seat it. Go ahead and seat it firmly, you're not going to hurt anything. A full G27 consists of a round in the chamber and a FULL magazine.

Wright.

Don't load rounds directly into the chamber (except in an emergency). This can lead to a broken extractor. I broke one once doing this.

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Old 11-22-2002, 17:36   #4
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Lock the slide open, insert a full magazine, let slide go forward-chambering a round from the mag. If you absolutely must, take mag out and insert another round but it sure does help mag spring life/reliability to leave it one round down instead of packed full. Ken
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Old 11-22-2002, 17:41   #5
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I appreciate the reply ken, but wasn't a 9 round mag designed to hold 9 rounds?

Anyone else?
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Old 11-22-2002, 17:47   #6
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Lock the slide open, insert a full magazine, let slide go forward-chambering a round from the mag. If you absolutely must, take mag out and insert another round but it sure does help mag spring life/reliability to leave it one round down instead of packed full. Ken
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Old 11-22-2002, 19:33   #7
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How did that happen?!! I didn't post the same reply twice? anyway, yes your mag was designed to hold 9 rounds but as you have observed it makes things tight, I prefer to have the slide move back and forth without any binding. If you compress the spring fully and keep it there it is using/loosing stored energy. I looked into mag spring life a long time back and found out that for the best reliability (what I want in a defensive weapon) it pays to down load by at least one round. I would rather be with one round less and have a mag capable of feeding the ones left than the other way around (murphy's law). It's kind of like "extra insurance" to me. I keep my G26 loaded with 8 in the mag and one in the pipe, same with my G30. I download my single stacks by 1 rd and my double stacks by 1 ~ 4 rds depending on the capacity. I have been using this principle for 12 years and have never had to replace a mag spring. It is recommended that if you keep a mag fully loaded that you put new mag springs in once a year. You should always check your mag spring tension when you clean your pistol (once a month, or when necessary) by inserting an empty mag in the receiver without the slide on to see that the follower properly engages the slide stop lever and has enough energy to push it up, if it don't,(assuming a clean magazine-clean and dry on the inside) get a new spring and don't use that mag for defensive use until it is replaced (per Glock Armorers course). Ken
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Old 11-22-2002, 19:44   #8
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The going theory Ken is if it's designed to hold 9 put nine if it's designed to hold 10 put ten. I have the Pearce plus one's on my 27 and I load them with 10 rounds and every 6 to 8 weeks I switch mags and give the one I was using a break. Some guys leave their mags loaded even longer---say 3 or 4 months before changing them. I don't think loading them fully hurts them at all and most armorers tell me the same. Go with what makes you feel right though. If you like it then it's right. Eddie
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Old 11-22-2002, 20:09   #9
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If it works, then it's right. I posted the above info based on my experience/training with magazine fed weapons. As the Training Director/Firearms Instructor for my Sheriff's Office I recommend what I know works, we can't have springs loosing their energy at the wrong time (anytime). I know other people/departments do differently; such as keeping fully loaded and replacing springs annually. Some swap out mags every so often as you said and some just wait until it malfuctions to replace them. Some buy extra power Wolff or other aftermarket springs and load up to the max and leave it, thinking that will make them last forever. Like you said, what ever works for you, everyone must decide what they trust their life to. By the way, did you install a stronger spring when you added the extra capacity extension?? Checking the mag spring tension regularly is a good thing for everyone to do (don't forget to check the recoil spring too) Better safe than sorry, an ounce of prevention and all that. Ken
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Old 11-22-2002, 20:21   #10
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Your right Ken and there is no right or wrong it's just what makes you feel good. I don't fault anyone if what their doing is what makes them feel right. I did put Wolff springs in my guns. I do that to all my guns though. Do you think it helps with your experience on the longevity of the mag springs by downloading by one? I was told it really didn't matter if you put one less. You would have much more experience than I. Have you noticed much difference? I am curious. Thanks, Eddie
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Old 11-22-2002, 23:08   #11
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It is normal to have a little bind with a full (9 rounds) mag. I leave one in the tube and 9 in the mag for months on end without a problem. Cycling springs wears them, not compressing them. The steel they use in springs these days does not suffer from compression set.
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Old 11-22-2002, 23:24   #12
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Thanks Mark.
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Old 11-23-2002, 11:38   #13
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The info I got from spring manufacturers was that all springs take a set and all springs wear out. The better quality ones just last longer. The more it is compressed-the more energy it uses/looses faster. This is why I download-to not use all of it's energy-so it will more than likely have it when I need it. I check all my mags for function in the weapon by making sure it will operate the slide stops and by regularly firing them with some of the heaviest ammo for that caliber and my carry load as well. I've seen many worn out mag springs from all manufacturers by people who kept their mags fully loaded and didn't shoot them much. I've not had any in the last 12 years. This includes Glock, Colt, Mec-Gar, Smith & Wesson, H&K, Browning, Kahr, Kimber (Chip McCormick) and springs from Wolff. Some mag springs are amazingly strong and last a very long time and then again some from the same company won't - just part of manufacturing variances. I've read where some old military .45 auto mags stayed fully loaded for years and worked perfectly, but I've seen some that didn't as well. As I said, checking them regularly for function is a very good idea and is highly recommended by the manufacturer especially if it is used for law enforcement/defensive use. I know what has worked for me and this is what I have shared based on my experience, if you can keep a mag fully loaded and it never wear out, well then you got one heck of a mag spring and I wish all were made just like it. I just won't take that chance. Best to all, Ken
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Old 11-23-2002, 13:22   #14
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Ken I have agreed with your views and that's why I asked you to let me know based on your experience (which of course is much greater than my own) what your thoughts were. Mark is only relaying what he's heard also and I understand that too. Again it goes to what makes you most comfortable. I have heard from many circles about mag springs setting and I have heard that "If they are made to hold 10 rounds, don't be an IDIOT put in ten rounds!!!" I really feel caught myself and the last time this subject came up about 2 or 3 months ago I got blasted for just putting your view out there as a question. I just asked about downloading by one round and you would of thought I shot the "Pope" or at the very least "Big C in Big D". I appreciate your views on this and believe me I am probably going in the room this afternoon and take a round out of each of my mags. A sincere thanks to you Ken and I really didn't want it to seem we were trying to discredit you in any way. I will take your ideas and use them. Nothing is better than real world experience. I know Mark and I'm sure he was relaying what he had only heard also. Thanks again and look forward to exchanging views with you again. Regards, Eddie
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Old 11-23-2002, 15:31   #15
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Hey Doc, My new G-27 does the same thing. Great little gun isnt it?
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Old 11-23-2002, 15:52   #16
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What kills springs is cycles of compression/decompression.. loading it to 9 and slamming her home will not hurt it or shorten spring life. If anything, the glock mags all seem tight, largely because of design. (Fear of being able to cram an extra round in, in the case of 10 rounders and violating a certain stupid law)...9 rounders use the same follower and suffer the same problem. Trim 1/8 inch off the follower legs and the "problem" goes away.
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Old 11-23-2002, 15:52   #17
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Drjones is that G27 on the recall list? Or did you miss that with this gun? Mine is on the recall list. Eddie.
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Old 11-23-2002, 16:59   #18
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As far as I know, it is not.

Serial # DZD...US

Recalled?
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Old 11-23-2002, 21:36   #19
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Ken, your info is incorrect, but if what you do makes you sleep easier, works for me.

Eddie, not just relaying what I heard. I have a lot of materials/design experience, I do failure analysis (fatigue, fracuter, etc.) for a living. Unless you compress the spring into the plastic deformation range, it will NOT take a set. I've measured the compressed and uncompressed lengths on lots of springs from lots of type of magazines. I've let springs sit in 15 round Glock (also did it with .45 mags, 8, 6, and 4 rounds) magazines for 4 years and measured the spring rate in them with 15, 10 and 5 rounds, and they are the same. In 99% of the magazines on the market, cycling is what wears out the springs, not compression. Old wives tales die hard.
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Old 11-23-2002, 22:32   #20
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I've become of the opinion that the quality of the spring wire used by the various firearms & magazine manufacturers, or their vendors, has more of an effect on magazine spring "life" than many folks realize ...

During a Colt Rifle Armorer's Course, the Colt instructor was quite emphatic that current 30-round magazines, even with the green followers, should be down-loaded by 2 rounds if stored long term in patrol cars. Even the discontinued 20-round magazines should be downloaded to that extent, according to him ... On the other hand, they did not recommend downloading the Colt pistol magazines ...

Some magazine springs don't seem to last as long when they're left stored fully loaded, or used frequently (compressed/decompressed repeatedly during shooting). Glock magazine springs seem to be among these springs ... I've seen more weakened spring issues with Glocks, new and older, than any other brand. And that's with Glocks being in the definite minority of the weapons used by the more than a thousand qualifications I see each year ... Don't get me wrong. I don't see a large number of them, just more of them than with any other ...

Ruger and S&W magazine springs seem to last a very long time, no matter how they're used. I constantly use 14 round 9mm S&W magazines that have been used exclusively for range training for between 13-15 years. While they "feel" a little less strong than duty magazines that have been left fully loaded for the same length of time, neither category of magazine appears to be inclined to malfunction ... yet.

Beretta, SIG & HK magazine springs seem to last right up there, too.

Don't know what any of this means ... if anything.

Although, in pistols in which I've installed heavier than factory recoil springs, I've also installed heavier magazine springs ... just to keep the springs "balanced", as it were ...

S&W has left loaded magazines stored for years in their vaults, as part of ongoing tests to answer such issues. They've had magazines which have been stored for more than a decade which provided perfect functioning.

On the other hand, they receievd a shipment of magazine springs from one of their vendors a year or so ago, which were for full size 40XX series pistols, which caused some functioning problems in new magazines. The problem was traced to a change in some specification on the part of the vendor, which the vendor felt wouldn't affect the required performance specifications, and of which S&W was unaware until the problems occurred. These things can happen with anyone ...

Wilson magazines use a contract vendor to provide springs manufactured to their exact specifications. These are the same springs that are required to be replaced by federal folks carrying pistols that use these magazines ... every 6 months or every specified number of rounds fired, whichever occurs first.

We've had some compact .45 1911's, including 2 Officers Models, that frequently experienced last round feeding malfunctions with Wilson magazines after only a few months use, whether or not left stored fully loaded ... or after only a couple of thousand rounds. Once we contacted a spring manufacturer and switched to a different spring ... which DID cost us 1 round of capacity over the extra round capacity of the standard Wilson-specified spring ... we experienced perfect functioning over several thousands of rounds, and over a period of a couple of years ... Quite an improvement. And no, simply downloading the standard Wilson supplied magazine & spring did not resolve the problem.

It's very interesting to discuss these sorts of issues with folks that make springs, like the excellent Wolff Company.

Having said all of that, though, I'm also more comfortable replacing some types of magazine springs on some periodic schedule regarding either frequency of use or storage ... especially for subcompact, large caliber pistols. When we get into the realm of reduced mass slides, lightweight frames, and increased slide velocities for the really small pistols, I prefer to err on the side of safety when it comes to magazine springs. Full size pistols are more forgiving when it comes to magazine spring strength & feeding issues ...

Replacement springs are very inexpensive insurance.

Also, having seen how some L/E are very lax and ... uh, "less than interested" ... when it comes to maintenance of firearms ... Well, I can't fault anyone for taking whatever steps and precautions they feel are necessary to keep their defensive weapons in top operating condition. If someone feels it's necessary to download their pistol magazines by a round or two, that's fine, and shouldn't be anybody else's business. At least they're concerned enough to take a reasonable interest in their equipment ... especially equipment that may be necessary to protect their life, or that of a loved one ...

You've got to respect that ...

Last edited by fastbolt; 11-23-2002 at 22:36..
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