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Old 09-20-2010, 13:39   #1
austin_tx
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Another question about 9mm self-defense loads.

Mas,

I notice that you're partial to the Gold Dot 124-grain +P and Winchester Ranger 127-grain +P+ rounds for 9mm self-defense ammo.

How do you view the Corbon 115-grain JHP +P round compared to these? I know muzzle energy isn't everything, but the latter seems to pack a bit more of it than the first two (466 fpe for the Corbon, versus 410 for the Gold Dot and 441 for the Ranger). Does the Corbon not penetrate sufficiently?

Thanks,
ATX
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Old 09-20-2010, 22:08   #2
Mas Ayoob
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Austin, I have a little more experience than the average dude with Cor-Bon 115 grain +P JHP, and in fact carried it almost exclusively in my 9mms for about a decade. It's still in my "top five" list.

I found over the years (autopsy reports, live animal shootings, and gelatin testing) that would give about ten inches penetration with a very wide wound cavity, and the dynamic fragmentation of its Sierra Jacketed Hollow Cavity bullet helped here.

("Adynamic fragmentation" means that the sheared-off bits and pieces of the bullet come to rest in an already-destroyed permanent wound cavity. "Dynamic fragmentation" means that the pieces are spinning outward from the center of the wound track, causing more damage to tissue.)

The 115 grain Cor-Bon JHP exceeds a number of .45 hollow points in its volume of tissue destruction. They're not exaggerating their stated 1350 foot-seconds velocity from a service 9mm's barrel.

I personally load 127 grain +P+ Ranger-T in my 9mms these days, and 124 grain +P Gold Dot would be my second choice; as you surmised, greater tactical penetration is one reason. Still, for typical armed citizen self-defense situations, I think if you're loaded with 115 grain Cor-Bon +P with the Sierra JHC bullet, you're good to go.

Others, of course, may differ...and that's why Caliber Corner is such a popular section here at Glock Talk.

best,
Mas
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Old 09-21-2010, 23:41   #3
austin_tx
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Thanks for the detailed and informative reply, Mas. I'll have to spend some time in the Caliber Corner forum.

I don't have any concerns about shooting limited amounts of Ranger-T in my Berettas or Glock (not so with my older Hi-Power), but I'm worried that ~42,000 psi might beat the heck out of my smaller carry gun, a Walther PPS, very quickly. In fact, I'm a bit concerned about shooting even the Corbon in it. Like you said, Corbon is not exaggerating the velocity of that load. If anything, I think they're being conservative. My brother chrono'd the Corbon at between 1410 and 1425 fps in his 92FS. That stuff is hot.

Do you think a smaller but well-built pistol like the PPS is made to withstand the added pounding that the Corbon load would give it? Would the 124-grain Gold Dot be a little gentler on the gun? I considered the Corbon 115-grain DPX +P round, but since it's loaded quite a bit lighter than the +P JHP, I'm guessing it's probably one to pass on.

Just looking on Corbon's website, I noticed they have a 125-grain +P JHP that I've never seen in my LGS. They claim it has a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps, which is the same as the 127-grain Ranger-T, if I'm not mistaken. Have you been able to gather much info from the field on that particular Corbon round? Since it's +P instead of +P+, it seems that I could at least consider using it in the PPS, though it's probably about as hot as the 115-grain load.

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:43   #4
Mas Ayoob
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Best bet with that type of question is to contact two entities: the manufacturer of the gun and the manufacturer of the ammunition.

best,
Mas
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Old 09-23-2010, 19:38   #5
austin_tx
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Good call. Apologies for the long posts. Here's the only thing from the last post that I'm wondering if you have any information about:

Just looking on Corbon's website, I noticed they have a 125-grain +P JHP that I've never seen in my LGS. They claim it has a muzzle velocity of 1250 fps, which is the same as the 127-grain Ranger-T, if I'm not mistaken. Have you been able to gather much info from the field on that particular Corbon round?

Thanks again, Mas.
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Old 09-23-2010, 22:31   #6
Mas Ayoob
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Nope, not in that bullet weight. The faster 115 grain +P is well proven in the field, though.
best,
Mas
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Old 09-27-2010, 23:47   #7
austin_tx
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One last question on Gold Dot ammo. I realized that the box of Gold Dot +P I came home with is "Short Barrel" Gold Dot.

Do you have any information on the "Short Barrel" +P stuff versus the regular +P loads? I'll put the regular +P loads in the Beretta (which loved these rounds), but I'm unsure which to go with for the PPS. Do you know if there is a point at which the Short Barrel round becomes ballistically superior to the regular load as your barrel decreases in length?

(According to Speer, the Short Barrel GDHP +P is rated at 1150 fps and 364 ft-lbs. out of a 3.5" barrel, while the regular GDHP +P is rated at 1220 fps and 410 ft-lbs. out of a 4" barrel.)

Thanks again for all of your help.
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Last edited by austin_tx; 09-27-2010 at 23:48..
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Old 09-29-2010, 22:37   #8
Mas Ayoob
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Speer's Short Barrel loads make more sense in .38 Special and .45 ACP, because those rounds generally have more critical velocity floors. Doubt that you'll find much difference in 9mm, where my Gold Dot of choice would be the regular +P 124 grain load. It has established an excellent record in 9mms of all barrel lengths from NYPD to Las Vegas Metro.

best,
Mas
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