First official training - Glad I had a Glock

Irelander · 09-24-2010, 09:43

I just got back from a 4-day Defensive Handgun Course at Front Sight in Nevada. It was my first official gun training course. I had a great time and the instruction was fantastic.

Anyway, I trained with my G26 and boy am I glad I had a Glock. I can say with almost 100% certainty that all the non-Glock users had way more trouble handling their guns with all the manual safeties and decockers. Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns. I saw one Sig user have multiple Type 3 malfunctions. The instructors tried to fix it by cleaning the gun and mags but that didn't help. Glock definitely ruled the course.

I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session. Front Sight teaches the Harries flashlight holding method and my G26 kept jamming due to lack of tension from my support hand. I guess I was limp wristing it. I'm sure with some practice or a different flashlight holding method I could get it down. Besides the night shoot issues, I did not have any other issues.

Of the six guys that went with us to the training, 5 had Glocks and we all commented on how glad we were that we carried Glocks. The other guy (shooting a 1911) said that when he got home to TX he was going straight to the gun shop to buy a Glock 19. The simplicity of design and function coupled with unparalleled reliability that I witnessed makes me more confident in my choice of handgun proud to be a Glock owner.

Thanks GLOCK!

AZBru88 · 09-24-2010, 09:46

I've talked with a few trainers that say almost the same thing. Very rare to see a Glock have a problem.
Congrats on your first class, lots of fun learning and training like that!

Two Guns · 09-24-2010, 09:48

I love how boring Glocks are.

prism · 09-24-2010, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irelander

..... Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns.

/

.....I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session. Front Sight teaches the Harries flashlight holding method and my G26 kept jamming ........

ooops. It looks like at least one Glock user had trouble.

Since you were at a multi-day gun training course, why didn't the instructors get involved and instruct you on how to do it properly?

Sonnytoo · 09-24-2010, 10:12

Seems reasonable...but I would think that your one-handed shooting should have been fine anyway.
Sonnytoo

PlasticGuy · 09-24-2010, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irelander

...Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns...

I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session. Front Sight teaches the Harries flashlight holding method and my G26 kept jamming...

Not one problem, except for several malfunctions from your Glock? Not bagging on you, but...

The fact is that all guns can have issues. As you train more, you'll see more. I've seen just about every pistol design have wear/breakage issues. Some do have more than others, but they're all just machines.

Most important, congratulations on taking your first class. It's a huge first step. I know my first class really opened my eyes to what can be done by a well trained shooter with a quality handgun. I've taken several classes since then, and will likely never stop. It's always worth it. I always come back with some skill set or knowledge I didn't have going in, even if it's something NOT to do.

bmylesk · 09-24-2010, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Guns

I love how boring Glocks are.

my G23 is so boring! i love it!

Glocken-spiel · 09-24-2010, 10:34

congrats on your glock and frontsight experience. i attended frontsight at the end a april, and also trained with a Glock 26. it was a GREAT learning experience.

if you had never practised shooting one-handed before it would be easy to limp-wrist the weapon. so you learned an additional valuable lesson with that experience.

our instructor made this comment on our first day:
"be sure you clean your guns every night ... unless you have a Glock! if so just throw it on the ground and kick dirt on it. they like that."

it was said only in jest, of course, but certainly pointed out Glocks reliability advantages.

Adam5 · 09-24-2010, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irelander

Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns. I saw one Sig user have multiple Type 3 malfunctions. The instructors tried to fix it by cleaning the gun and mags but that didn't help. Glock definitely ruled the course.

I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session. Front Sight teaches the Harries flashlight holding method and my G26 kept jamming due to lack of tension from my support hand. I guess I was limp wristing it. I'm sure with some practice or a different flashlight holding method I could get it down. Besides the night shoot issues, I did not have any other issues.

Which one was it?

Did "Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns.", or "I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session."?

You seem to contradict yourself.

Glockbuster · 09-24-2010, 10:57

We´ve had a few guys here at IPSC in production have some issues with their 9mms. I know limp wristing is a valid and attributable cause but it also goes hand in hand with mild loads. Tends to happen more with 9 mms than .40¨´s. I´ve also seen less of that from the same shooters using factory ammo.

Get a good grip with one hand on the gun and lock your wrist and work only the trigger finger and......no problems!!!

Duck of Death · 09-24-2010, 11:09

*QUOTE*
Front Sight teaches the Harries flashlight holding method and my G26 kept jamming due to lack of tension from my support hand.

Some thoughts:

1. Your gun wouldn't work w/the Harries hold, I'd damn well not use that hold. I can think of 5 other flashlight holds that could have been used.
2. When using the Harries hold "lack of tension from the support hand" has nothing to do w/your grip on the firearm.
3. The Glock was reliable except for the above, I've got a G26 and have shot it weak hand, strong hand and w/2 hands. It is reliable, you need to GET A GRIP.

Bowtie · 09-24-2010, 11:33

Got to love when someone rags on other makes then in the same post they talk about how the gun they used had issues..The glock must have been user error but the others must have been the make and model of gun..

COM165 · 09-24-2010, 11:34

I've been to many training classes. I have seen all firearms experience malfunctions, including Glocks. That being said, Glocks experience the least. The ones that did were shooter induced or very old parts. Ex; a guy from my job had a slide lock spring break. But it was 10 years old and a part that Glock had updated with a wider spring.

All in all, I was glad to have my Glocks at these sessions as well.

Bren · 09-24-2010, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam5

Which one was it?

Did "Not one Glock user had any trouble with their guns.", or "I did have trouble with my G26 during the night shooting session."?

You seem to contradict yourself.

Like he said "limpwristing" - if you shoot your Glock fine with 2 hands and have malfunctions with 1, that tells anybody who actually knows anything about shooting and training that it's a shooter malfuction, not a gun malfunction. I realize this site is made up largely of beginners, but that is just commmon sense.

Bren · 09-24-2010, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

We´ve had a few guys here at IPSC in production have some issues with their 9mms. I know limp wristing is a valid and attributable cause but it also goes hand in hand with mild loads. Tends to happen more with 9 mms than .40¨´s. I´ve also seen less of that from the same shooters using factory ammo.

Get a good grip with one hand on the gun and lock your wrist and work only the trigger finger and......no problems!!!

Mild loads can be the cause. A limpwristing malfunction is has 3 factors: (1) ammo power, (2) resistance of the recoil spring and (3) resistance of the frame to movement during recoil. Change any one of those factors and you can cause or cure "limpwristing" - in reality it has very little to do with your wrist.

Glockbuster · 09-24-2010, 11:50

It´s necessary to let the energy do its work on the slide. Locking the wrist is important.

I might add that it is not a requisite, but would aid in preventing wrong movement.

Irelander · 09-24-2010, 11:52

OK guys...geez. I thought it was clear that my malfunctions were due to operator error and not to Glock problems. I never cleaned my Glock the whole time even after the problems at the night shoot. After that I shot a great score on my skills test and scored good enough to graduate. My only problem was the night shoot. Of course I was trying to keep one eye on the old fellow beside my that couldn't seem to keep his muzzle pointed in the right direction. That may have been a cause of my lack of focus during the night shoot.

The instructors said they see the same problem with most sub compacts during the night shoot with the Harries grip. They told me they would help me out with it, but I forgot to bring it up again so I'm sure they forgot too.

One problem I see is that FS teaches the Weaver stance. They want you to have a "light" grip on the pistol. The firm grip comes when applying isometric pressure against the support hand. Well when your support hand is hold a flashlight you loose that firm grip. I found it hard to not limp wrist the gun with a relaxed grip.

Quote:

Got to love when someone rags on other makes then in the same post they talk about how the gun they used had issues..The glock must have been user error but the others must have been the make and model of gun..

I'm not bashing any other guns. I've got other guns and I love them. I'm just calling it as I see it. Everyone I talked to at the class mentioned that Glock shooters have it easier than the other guys. Even guys that weren't shooting Glocks said that. So, no offense to other shooters, I'm just speaking from my experience.

Glockbuster · 09-24-2010, 11:55

Weaver stance ?? I´m outa there!!

Out of the weaver stance that is. IMO their teachings as you have described on the grip are right on if using both hands. No weaver stance for me though. It is unnatural and will not help you under stress or on the move. An isosceles stance will help you move accross multiple targets quicker and will balance you better. Left foot slightly ahead, bend your knees, and lean slightly forward. Stretch both arms out and pull hard on the left hand against your right (I´m assuming you´re right handed) Both thumbs pointed forward, right over left. As for one handed grip, lock your wrist.

You have a great attitude in pursuing training, may I suggest you take another course at a more reputable school ? I think you have lots to discover yet.

tbyron · 09-24-2010, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Guns

I love how boring Glocks are.

Every time I pull the trigger, the chambered round fires, ejects, and then a new one enters the chamber. The same thing over and over again. It sure is boring. No hiccups, no jams. Kind of makes shooting a Glock dull.

Duck of Death · 09-24-2010, 12:09

*QUOTE*
Of course I was trying to keep one eye on the old fellow beside my that couldn't seem to keep his muzzle pointed in the right direction.

Screw that, I'M OUT OF THERE, AND I WANT MY $$ BACK!!!

Bowtie · 09-24-2010, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duck of Death

*QUOTE*
Of course I was trying to keep one eye on the old fellow beside my that couldn't seem to keep his muzzle pointed in the right direction.

Screw that, I'M OUT OF THERE, AND I WANT MY $$ BACK!!!

Ive been there three times and they would have yanked him off the range if he didnt show muzzle control..

Irelander · 09-24-2010, 12:15

That same guy was kicked of another range for a negligent discharge. He definitely scared me.

Bowtie · 09-24-2010, 12:18

We had a guy in the Academy like that. Even after he was taught how to clear malfunctions, he'd still sweap everyone on the line everytime he had one trying to get the RO's attention. He got there attention alright.

Duck of Death · 09-24-2010, 12:24

Here's my take--Glocks are extremely reliable, however, if you've never had one malfunction you don't shoot much.

My new G27 even had a break in period, which I've never experienced in my other Gs. Seems like the breech end of the recoil rod wanted to take chunks out of the frame 'till I went to work w/a knife. This slowed the recoil pulse and it failed to feed, after I operated it's fine.

JoNxMeMpHiS · 09-24-2010, 12:33

Funny how I hear all the inferiority issues about all the other guns when only 1 person was shooting non-Glock.

I've only taken a few training courses and never taken one with a Glock (though I own a couple and love them). I never had any failures on the part of my guns while training.

Besides, Clint liked my 1911 last time I went down to T.R. and that was a crappy $450 Springfield GI.