GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2010, 11:35   #1
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Updated Tests: Fiocchi's 92gr 9mm EMB (Expanding Mono Block)

Today I tried a highly unscientific expansion test of the Fiocchi 92gr EMB from one of my M&P9c's.
I will admit to being a little concerned about using such a light bullet out of the 9c's short bbl.
I used 3 1-gal water jugs in full contact, presenting 18" of medium (I thought 2 might be sufficient w/the 3rd for a margin of safety).
Fired a single shot from 10', impacting the center of the first jug. Surprisingly, all 3 jugs exploded w/the third showing an exit hole out the back (shucks and other comments!).
Having deliberately set up the jugs so line-of-travel was easy to determine I decided to hunt out a bit along the bullet's probable track to see if I could locate it.
I'd barely looked down into the mud when I located the expanded bullet just inches away from the third jug's location. Apparently the bullet had just enough energy to barely punch out the back of the third jug and no further.
Expansion was a full & classic mushroom measuring .64" at the widest w/full weight retention (the bullet is entirely copper & bronze).
I realize this test is highly unscientific under ideal conditions but still I find myself impressed w/the level of expansion & depth of penetration from a short bbl.
Tomac

Recovered bullet w/an unfired cartridge:
Caliber Corner
Recovered bullet, side view:
Caliber Corner
Recovered bullet, front view:
Caliber Corner
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Tomac; 10-03-2010 at 11:07..
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:19   #2
mastrbloata
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pinellas Park, Florida
Posts: 2,675
Send a message via Yahoo to mastrbloata
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.
__________________
"The difference between "global governance" and "world government," is much like the difference between date rape and rape. One begins with seduction; both end in violence."
-Henry Lamb-
mastrbloata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:27   #3
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrbloata View Post
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.
That was what I'd originally planned but couldn't find my denim testing scraps. However, it's on my "to-do" list for next time. Meanwhile, this is the only test w/denim that I could find: http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm
I'm going to try this test again in the near future w/a friend's fullsize 9mm and see how much difference there is in penetration and expansion.
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Tomac; 09-26-2010 at 12:28..
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 10:13   #4
BOGE
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomac View Post
That was what I'd originally planned but couldn't find my denim testing scraps. However, it's on my "to-do" list for next time. Meanwhile, this is the only test w/denim that I could find: http://www.raoulwagner.com/tests2005.htm
I'm going to try this test again in the near future w/a friend's fullsize 9mm and see how much difference there is in penetration and expansion.
Tomac
I have seen the test that you have linked and THAT is impressive!! When I get back in country I will have to buy some of these!! That is great performance.
BOGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 17:27   #5
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrbloata View Post
That's pretty neat. Are you going to give some denim covered jugs a try? I never knew that's what those rounds were.
My curiosity has been piqued so a friend is helping me w/a new set of tests this weekend (probably Sunday morning). We're going to test the EMB through 2 layers of leather & 4 layers of denim w/both the M&P compact and an M&P fullsize. Will also test some .40rds and maybe a std 9mm 115gr JHP if we have enough jugs.
Stay tuned!...
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 18:22   #6
mastrbloata
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pinellas Park, Florida
Posts: 2,675
Send a message via Yahoo to mastrbloata
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomac View Post
My curiosity has been piqued so a friend is helping me w/a new set of tests this weekend (probably Sunday morning). We're going to test the EMB through 2 layers of leather & 4 layers of denim w/both the M&P compact and an M&P fullsize. Will also test some .40rds and maybe a std 9mm 115gr JHP if we have enough jugs.
Stay tuned!...
Tomac
Very, very cool. Can't wait.
__________________
"The difference between "global governance" and "world government," is much like the difference between date rape and rape. One begins with seduction; both end in violence."
-Henry Lamb-
mastrbloata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 19:03   #7
glocknbruce
Senior Member
 
glocknbruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 621
neat....that looks like a "souped up" Hydra-Shok
glocknbruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 19:13   #8
Merkavaboy
Code-7A KUZ769
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
Posts: 5,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by glocknbruce View Post
neat....that looks like a "souped up" Hydra-Shok
That's one of the reasons why it took so long for the EMB round to hit the States, because of pantent rights enfringement.
__________________
"I spent the last two years of high school in a daze....attended classes sparingly, drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically."
Barack Obama
One Bad Ass Mistake America

Last edited by Merkavaboy; 10-01-2010 at 19:14..
Merkavaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:06   #9
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Just got back from the range, here are the results, all fired from 10' through 1 layer of lined leather and 2 layers of denim and correlate to how you see the bullets in the pic from left to right:

1) (Not shown) 3.6" bbl, EMB, bullet passed through leather, denim and all 4 jugs and was not recovered (I have no idea what happened here).
2) 3.6" bbl, EMB, this is the bullet from the first test last week, no leather or denim, Exp = .64", Pen = 18".
3) 3.6" bbl, Fiocchi 115gr XTP JHP, Exp = .52", Pen = 18".
4) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .69", Pen = 15".
5) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .74", Pen = 18".
6) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .65", Pen = 18".
7) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .70"*, Pen = 18". * = shed 2 petals in the 2nd jug.

After the first unrecovered shot, following bullets penetrated wet leather/denim, I have no idea what effect if any it might have on expansion/penetration. Remarkably consistent penetration despite different bbl lengths or prescence/lack of leather/denim.
Also tested for comparison (but not shown):
8) Federal .40 180gr Hydra-Shok, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".
9) Speer .40 155gr Gold Dot, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".

Test setup:
Caliber Corner
Recovered bullets:
Caliber Corner

ETA: Here are some other 9mm water jug tests for comparison: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by Tomac; 10-03-2010 at 11:41..
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:38   #10
mastrbloata
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pinellas Park, Florida
Posts: 2,675
Send a message via Yahoo to mastrbloata
Thanks for the tests. These are really reasonably priced I've noticed as well.
__________________
"The difference between "global governance" and "world government," is much like the difference between date rape and rape. One begins with seduction; both end in violence."
-Henry Lamb-
mastrbloata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 11:42   #11
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrbloata View Post
Thanks for the tests. These are really reasonably priced I've noticed as well.
You're welcome and correct about them being reasonably priced!
Tomac
PS- I just added a link above to other 9mm water jug tests.
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 18:56   #12
RottnJP
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
RottnJP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,997
I wonder how those will hold together at .357 SIG speeds... Seems like that might be a *great* load.
__________________
Outpost Member #69.14159
RottnJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 20:19   #13
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by RottnJP View Post
I wonder how those will hold together at .357 SIG speeds... Seems like that might be a *great* load.
Hmmm... I don't know about .357 SIG speeds. At 3.6" bbl speeds the recovered bullets retained 100% of their weight but out of a 4.25" bbl I saw evidence of shedding petals. Boost it to .357 SIG speeds and I wouldn't be surprised to see it shed *all* of it's petals!
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 20:43   #14
BurkGlocker
Texas Redneck
 
BurkGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 465
Its too bad that they dont make them in the .40 or .45... That would be awesomeeeee...

Burk
__________________
40 S&W: Best of both worlds!!!
Texas Born, Texas Raised, TEXAS PROUD!!!
BurkGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 23:38   #15
BOGE
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 5,555
For those wanting this performance in other calibers the Corbon DPX is the hands down winner. It does all this & a bag of chips. Basically this Fiocchi round is a ``po boy`` DPX and there is nothing wrong with that.
BOGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 04:29   #16
PATRICE
. . . . .
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 782
.....

Last edited by PATRICE; 10-07-2010 at 03:52..
PATRICE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 17:32   #17
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Okay, here's a question for those better versed than I in fluid dynamics:
For such a lightweight bullet the EMB seems to achieve notable penetration w/very good expansion. Could this unexpected penetration be due in part to the EMB's bronze post possibly enhancing post-expansion hydrodynamics instead of presenting the typical entirely flat mushroom shape of more std JHP's?
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:32   #18
RottnJP
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
RottnJP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,997
Yes, I think that's the intent. The way I think of it is the thick center post is designed to act like a FMJ. It also is thick enough to keep the hollow point from collapsing when it hits a barrier. To me, this is different from (and superior to) the Hydra-shock for this reason.
__________________
Outpost Member #69.14159
RottnJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 12:12   #19
RottnJP
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
RottnJP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 1,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOGE View Post
For those wanting this performance in other calibers the Corbon DPX is the hands down winner. It does all this & a bag of chips. Basically this Fiocchi round is a ``po boy`` DPX and there is nothing wrong with that.
At $.50 per round, vs. $1.50 a pop, I'd take a serious look at this EMB stuff in whatever caliber they choose to make. At Cor-bon's prices, I'll go with speer GD once I run out of gold dot loaded double-tap ammo. I have to check invoice on my last DT order... I'm afraid I might have gotten Montana gold without realizing it...
__________________
Outpost Member #69.14159
RottnJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 17:40   #20
Tomac
Senior Member
 
Tomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Posts: 888
Question: I've received several comments about "18" of water penetration is only 9" in gel" (ie: 2:1 conversion factor) yet most other 9mm loads tested here through water jugs don't do better: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
Since bullets have to penetrate numerous plastic jugs and not just water is it possible that having to penetrate the plastic is having a negative effect on overall penetration?
Tomac
__________________
"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson
Tomac is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:43.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 582
135 Members
447 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31