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Old 09-29-2010, 22:47   #1
TommyV
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.357 SIG vs .40 S&W

I own a G22 40 S&W. I have considered getting a .357 SIG barrel for it but was looking at the ammunition available and saw some Cor-Bon 135gr .40 S&W JHP that appears to have similar ballistics to what I read about the 125gr .357 SIG.

It states:
Muzzle velocity: 1325 fps.
Muzzle energy: 526 ft/lbs.

Is there anything about the .357 SIG ammo that would make it stand out over a 135gr .40 S&W like the Cor-Bon mentioned above?

Thanks
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Old 09-29-2010, 23:06   #2
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For self-defense I'm of the personal opinion that 135gr is too light for .40. Sectional density is pretty low.
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Old 09-29-2010, 23:12   #3
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
For self-defense I'm of the personal opinion that 135gr is too light for .40. Sectional density is pretty low.
I am not really wanting to know what the optimal bullet is for the .40. What I am wondering is how these two bullets I mentioned compare to each other being that the ballistic measurements are nearly the same. The .40 135gr and .357 125gr.

You do mention sectional density which I imagine is higher in the 125gr .357 SIG. How significant of a difference does that make between these two specific bullets?

Last edited by TommyV; 09-29-2010 at 23:20..
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Old 09-30-2010, 00:33   #4
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The 125gr Gold Dot is one of the better "go to" bullets in .357 SIG for personal defense, based upon its high velocity design and bonded construction.

While the 135gr Sierra JHP might be good for light game/vermin; it's not in the same league as the 125gr Gold Dot IMO.

Bob
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Old 09-30-2010, 00:34   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post
I am not really wanting to know what the optimal bullet is for the .40. What I am wondering is how these two bullets I mentioned compare to each other being that the ballistic measurements are nearly the same. The .40 135gr and .357 125gr.

You do mention sectional density which I imagine is higher in the 125gr .357 SIG. How significant of a difference does that make between these two specific bullets?
The SD of a 125 gr .357 cal bullet is .140. The SD of a 135 gr .40 cal bullet is .121. To approximate the SD of the 125 gr .357 cal bullet you would need a 165 gr .40 cal bullet with a SD of .147. As an aside, the SDs of the 180 gr .40 cal bullet and the 230 gr .451 bullet are .161 and .162 respectively.

Last edited by NonPCnraRN; 09-30-2010 at 00:38..
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Old 09-30-2010, 00:48   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post
I own a G22 40 S&W. I have considered getting a .357 SIG barrel for it but was looking at the ammunition available and saw some Cor-Bon 135gr .40 S&W JHP that appears to have similar ballistics to what I read about the 125gr .357 SIG.

It states:
Muzzle velocity: 1325 fps.
Muzzle energy: 526 ft/lbs.

Is there anything about the .357 SIG ammo that would make it stand out over a 135gr .40 S&W like the Cor-Bon mentioned above?

Thanks
Yes, SecDen puts the 125gr/357 load ahead of any 135gr/40 load. Then add in that most 125gr/357sig loads are bonded, the bullet is not coming apart. Not so for the 135gr/40 loads. That bullet will frag if it hits bone or heavy muscle, limiting penetration further & maybe not getting the job done.
SD means that w/ two bullets of sim construction, the higher SD will penetrate further. The SD changes as the bullet expands, so if it starts out poor & gets worse, expansion is severly compromised.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-30-2010 at 00:50..
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:15   #7
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Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Yes, SecDen puts the 125gr/357 load ahead of any 135gr/40 load. Then add in that most 125gr/357sig loads are bonded, the bullet is not coming apart. Not so for the 135gr/40 loads. That bullet will frag if it hits bone or heavy muscle, limiting penetration further & maybe not getting the job done.
SD means that w/ two bullets of sim construction, the higher SD will penetrate further. The SD changes as the bullet expands, so if it starts out poor & gets worse, expansion is severly compromised.

Well this makes sense. I am carrying 165gr now in my G22. Also aside from poor expansion, I just read that the projectile travels through the air better with a higher sectional density.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NonPCnraRN View Post
The SD of a 125 gr .357 cal bullet is .140. The SD of a 135 gr .40 cal bullet is .121. To approximate the SD of the 125 gr .357 cal bullet you would need a 165 gr .40 cal bullet with a SD of .147. As an aside, the SDs of the 180 gr .40 cal bullet and the 230 gr .451 bullet are .161 and .162 respectively.
What is the formula to calculate this?

Also just a suggestion, you may way to consider using something else to abbreviate that as SD typically refers to self defense on most gun forums that I have seen.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:29   #8
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There is a formula I'm certain, but you can find sectional density calculators online, it's way easier. Essentially, if two bullets are nearly the same weight, but one is a smaller caliber, the smaller caliber will have higher sectional density which will cause it to penetrate better than the larger bullet of similar weight. With that being said, I've heard the 135gr .40 is a very good fight stopper.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:02   #9
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Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
There is a formula I'm certain, but you can find sectional density calculators online, it's way easier. Essentially, if two bullets are nearly the same weight, but one is a smaller caliber, the smaller caliber will have higher sectional density which will cause it to penetrate better than the larger bullet of similar weight. With that being said, I've heard the 135gr .40 is a very good fight stopper.
Yea I like formulas but I just found a calculator that will work for now. I understand that a smaller bullet of equal weight has greater density. I just want to be able to put exact numbers on it to compare. I don't plan on stopping any fights with my Glock

One thing I want to add is for some 9mm ammo I have. It is the Magtech First Defense 92.6gr Solid Copper HP.

Muzzle Velocity: 1330 fps
Muzzle Energy: 364 ft/lbs

Now I saw this in a test with a few other popular HP 9mm that was posted online. It was up against still like Gold Dot 124 gr, Hydra Shok and others. the reviewer commented on how the penetration was one of the top in the bunch and the picture of the expanded projectile had beautiful uniform expansion like a flower. I wish I had a link but I will try to find it.

I was very surprised how well it did against the other ones it was up against simply because the weight was so low.

Magtech makes a 130gr .40 S&W exactly the same.

Muzzle Velocity: 1190 fps
Muzzle Energy: 409 ft/lbs

Last edited by TommyV; 09-30-2010 at 11:09..
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:25   #10
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Since there has been no mention of accuracy yet (at least I think there has not), there will be no comparison--the 357 sig groupings will be better all around, and flatter trajectory.Nitpicking, but true nonetheless.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:32   #11
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Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
Since there has been no mention of accuracy yet (at least I think there has not), there will be no comparison--the 357 sig groupings will be better all around, and flatter trajectory.Nitpicking, but true nonetheless.
What makes the 357 flatter? I thought it was velocity but the specs on the first cartridge I mention s was over 1300 fps which is equal to the 357 round.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:33   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post
Well this makes sense. I am carrying 165gr now in my G22. Also aside from poor expansion, I just read that the projectile travels through the air better with a higher sectional density.



What is the formula to calculate this?

Also just a suggestion, you may way to consider using something else to abbreviate that as SD typically refers to self defense on most gun forums that I have seen.
Here is the Ballistician's Corner of the Beartooth Bullet website for sectional density and other formulas frequently used in discussing bullet effectiveness. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/index.htm

I realize that SD can stand for self defense but in the context of the subject I didn't think using SD for sectional density would cause any confusion. I am a member of SingleActions.com, Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com, MarlinOwners, LevergunLovers, SASS, and when talking about bullet characteristics SD infers sectional density as BC stands for ballistic coefficient. I will keep your suggestion in mind if the topic is self defense. Maybe I should have done as Cowboy1964 and actually spelled the words to avoid confusion. I can easily confuse myself so it is easy to see how shorthand can be misleading to others.

Last edited by NonPCnraRN; 09-30-2010 at 11:39..
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:56   #13
TommyV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonPCnraRN View Post
Here is the Ballistician's Corner of the Beartooth Bullet website for sectional density and other formulas frequently used in discussing bullet effectiveness. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/index.htm

I realize that SD can stand for self defense but in the context of the subject I didn't think using SD for sectional density would cause any confusion. I am a member of SingleActions.com, Paco Kelly's Leverguns.com, MarlinOwners, LevergunLovers, SASS, and when talking about bullet characteristics SD infers sectional density as BC stands for ballistic coefficient. I will keep your suggestion in mind if the topic is self defense. Maybe I should have done as Cowboy1964 and actually spelled the words to avoid confusion. I can easily confuse myself so it is easy to see how shorthand can be misleading to others.
Thank you!

Yea I am not trying to be the grammar police. I just thought it meant self defense when I first started reading your post but then figured it out pretty quickly.
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Old 09-30-2010, 13:18   #14
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Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
Since there has been no mention of accuracy yet (at least I think there has not), there will be no comparison--the 357 sig groupings will be better all around, and flatter trajectory.Nitpicking, but true nonetheless.
The "flat trajectory" is really just marketing hype. All pistol rounds are "falt" out to 50yds. You can see an advantage when you push it ot 100yds, but really, most guys can barely hit @ 7yds, so flat trajectory means nothing in self def (SD) rounds.
SecDen changes w/ bullet mat'l. so wt is not the soul indicater now w/ mono metal bullets. It is possible to get sim penetration w/ the lighter monometal bullets.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-30-2010 at 13:21..
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