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Old 09-19-2012, 18:36   #1251
cowboy1964
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I laugh whenever I hear "$20,000 gold!" or "$2000 silver!". You can't search YouTube without seeing those all over the place.

If that happens then gas will be $200 a gallon, etc. The real purchasing power of gold/silver is fairly constant over time, give or take.

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Old 09-19-2012, 19:21   #1252
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In 1964, silver was at #1.21 per troy ounce. Aroy ounce of siklver could make 5 1964 quarters (90%) silver.

A gallon of gas cost 25 cents in 1964.

Now, 48 years later, a gallon of gas costs $4.02 and silver is valued at $34.66 per troy ounce. It would take one troy ounce toi make five 1964 quarters (still after all these years) and a single 1964 quarter is valued at $6.24. In other words or in another way of looking at it, that sqame 1964 quarter would now buy buy one and a half gallons of gas.

tangible value is just that, it's tangible, while fiat currency is soon to be worthless.

I am converting my worthless fiat currency in my savings account into silver and gold as fast as possible. Not as an investment but because i want to transport whatever wealth i have today into whatever replaces the dollar sometime in the future.
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Old 09-19-2012, 19:39   #1253
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I am converting my worthless fiat currency in my savings account into silver and gold as fast as possible. Not as an investment but because i want to transport whatever wealth i have today into whatever replaces the dollar sometime in the future.
My problem is I don't know what to do with my 401k. That's the bulk of my net worth. I can probably put some of it into mining stocks but ugh. In the meantime, Apple and Google are doing me right. Apple, Microsoft, and others are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. Wonder how they are protecting their cash wads?

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Old 09-19-2012, 19:49   #1254
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Isn't that 45 time figure only if paper silver's bluff got called? I just remember seeing that with those "JP Morgan is going to collapse" weird cartoony guys that banter back and forth.

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Old 09-19-2012, 21:47   #1255
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Old 09-19-2012, 22:15   #1256
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
I laugh whenever I hear "$20,000 gold!" or "$2000 silver!". You can't search YouTube without seeing those all over the place.

If that happens then gas will be $200 a gallon, etc. The real purchasing power of gold/silver is fairly constant over time, give or take.
Ferfal's experience in Argentina was that silver/gold appreciated SLIGHTLY better than the inflation rate.

His example (working from memory here) was that if X amount of silver could buy 1 loaf of bread before the collapse, then afterwards it was buying 1.25-1.5 loaves of bread.

No one got rich holding PMs, but they either maintained, or increased their buying power by a bit. But there was no buying a mansion for 2 ounces of silver, and staffing it with a harem of slave girls. . .
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Old 09-21-2012, 18:59   #1257
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No Manipulation?

http://www.silverdoctors.com/cartel-...35/#more-14264

Guess they don't want 35 dollars. We'll see what happens next week....




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Old 09-21-2012, 19:19   #1258
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http://www.silverdoctors.com/cartel-...35/#more-14264

Guess they don't want 35 dollars. We'll see what happens next week....

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There has been manipulation in markets since there were markets.

In reality, I don't want $35/oz silver either. In the same way, no one wants $300/barrel oil. If silver hit $40 or $45 an oz would you sell? How about $100?

If you are buying silver like I am its a two fold position. 1) I already max out my 401K and Roth contributions, I fund a HSA and pay at least one extra mortgage payment a year. My silver purchases are just another investment I feel will pay off in the future 2) Its my security blanket. If the world goes the way I think it will hard commodities (or really anything other than fiat currency) will be king.

The one thing I noticed about the article was this "The cartel understood the predicament they were in, and responded with a massive paper dump on the market to stuff price back below $35."

How much physical gold and silver is out there to back the paper?
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Old 09-21-2012, 19:50   #1259
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
My problem is I don't know what to do with my 401k. That's the bulk of my net worth. I can probably put some of it into mining stocks but ugh. In the meantime, Apple and Google are doing me right. Apple, Microsoft, and others are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash. Wonder how they are protecting their cash wads?
In short they aren't.

Depending on what you think might happen companies like Apple, Google etc are in a pretty bad position since their revenue streams are based off techonological based products.

Bill Gates knows this. I remember reading an article several years ago about his personal financial consultant whose job it is every day to sell something like 50,000 shares of Gates's stock...I don't quite remember the number.

As of August, 2009 he owned 725 million shares so sheading 1.8 million shares a year sounds about right.

Google, Apple, MSFT can't run a successful business model thinking the economy is going to crash - simply because if it does, I think people might be more focused on food than downloading songs to their iphone. I know SOME people see this as a necessity....
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Old 09-21-2012, 21:32   #1260
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Paper is the ONLY way they can control the silver market or any market for that matter. Estimates by GATA are that paper contracts (in the form of derivates) exceed bullion by as much as 100 times.

Wife and I are all in. I don't plan on ever selling. I'll give it to to my kids/grandchildren when I die.

Good luck with your paper, folks...



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Old 09-22-2012, 00:32   #1261
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In 2008-2010 I was a civilian contractor in Iraq making GOOD $ and made several rather large silver purchases at under $15 a troy oz (in late 2008 silver dropped to $9-$11 ). I'm pretty happy with where I'm sitting.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:01   #1262
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In short they aren't.

Depending on what you think might happen companies like Apple, Google etc are in a pretty bad position since their revenue streams are based off techonological based products.

Bill Gates knows this. I remember reading an article several years ago about his personal financial consultant whose job it is every day to sell something like 50,000 shares of Gates's stock...I don't quite remember the number.

As of August, 2009 he owned 725 million shares so sheading 1.8 million shares a year sounds about right.

Google, Apple, MSFT can't run a successful business model thinking the economy is going to crash - simply because if it does, I think people might be more focused on food than downloading songs to their iphone. I know SOME people see this as a necessity....
Bill Gates sells the maximum amount of shares of Microsoft he can sell every quarter. It's called diversification.
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:16   #1263
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I don't know that there is a max number of shares Gates can sell every quarter. He's sold off 22% of his Microsoft stock in the last two years.

AFAIK, he could sell off his entire stake all at once if he wanted to (of course the share price would crash).

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Old 09-29-2012, 19:17   #1264
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Bill Gates sells the maximum amount of shares of Microsoft he can sell every quarter. It's called diversification.
Cascade Investment LLC is the secretive private holding company of the software executive. Almost every day the stock exchange has been open for 20+ years, Bill Gates has sold off as much Microsoft stock as he can without lowering its price, paid the taxes, and transferred the proceeds to this holding company. The well respected and successful value investor, Michael Larson, manages it on a full-time basis from the Kirkland, Washington headquarters.

Bill Gates does diversify - but his stock sale reasons far exceed the average investor's ideas about diversification.

My point is Gates probably worries about the dollar just like everyone else and companies like Microsoft are in a poor position if something were to happen.

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AFAIK, he could sell off his entire stake all at once if he wanted to (of course the share price would crash).
Would it really crash though? I didn't bother to find out the % of the stock he owns; in reality it might not only not tank, but he might get a premium on it? Just like a hostile takeover, companies pay a premium just to get a controlling or large share of the company.

Again, as it relates to the dollar, Gates has access to any financial planner/investment firm in the country. While I've read he owns shares of Walmart, McDonalds and even a few rail companies to think he doesn't own some bullion seems rash.
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:44   #1265
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Would it really crash though? I didn't bother to find out the % of the stock he owns; in reality it might not only not tank, but he might get a premium on it? Just like a hostile takeover, companies pay a premium just to get a controlling or large share of the company.
This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
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Old 09-29-2012, 22:00   #1266
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This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
Warp - that's what the "hostile" means in "hostile takeover". They're buying a company that isn't for sale....or is for sale but not at the price being tendered. They buy what they can. BOD recommends shareholders not accept. Offer goes up. Rinse and repeat.

Along the way they often acquire enough shares to replace the BOD and move the transaction in their favor...(BOD recommends shareholders accept the offer). 51% isn't required to have a controlling interest in these situations. It depends how many shares other interests hold as one voting block. A relatively small percentage, maybe 5 or 10% held by one interest can wield enormous influence. Once you get enough to start replacing board members, you have effectively taken over a company. From that point, you might choose to acquire it outright, or not.

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Old 09-29-2012, 22:49   #1267
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Warp - that's what the "hostile" means in "hostile takeover". They're buying a company that isn't for sale....or is for sale but not at the price being tendered. They buy what they can. BOD recommends shareholders not accept. Offer goes up. Rinse and repeat.

Along the way they often acquire enough shares to replace the BOD and move the transaction in their favor...(BOD recommends shareholders accept the offer). 51% isn't required to have a controlling interest in these situations. It depends how many shares other interests hold as one voting block. A relatively small percentage, maybe 5 or 10% held by one interest can wield enormous influence. Once you get enough to start replacing board members, you have effectively taken over a company. From that point, you might choose to acquire it outright, or not.
There is, of course, potentially a lot more than that to it, even.

It can get complicated very quickly.

How easily is 5% interest going to start replacing board members though? I mean...really?
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:37   #1268
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Why is silver rising? The dollar is losing value so commodities like silver rise by comparison. Blame Bernanke and the Federal Reserve:
http://bloom.bg/S8gjcL
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Old 09-30-2012, 16:46   #1269
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This would only be a consideration IF he still had a controlling interest and he sold all of it to one party, or one all of it + whatever else was available gave the other party a controlling interest.

Plus in a hostile takeover companies don't necessarily pay a premium 'get get a controlling share', they often pay a premium because the target corporation takes steps to try to prevent the hostile takeover by making acquisition more expensive. If he were to just up and sell it there wouldn't be anything 'hostile' about it.
It was just an analogy to just voice my point companies do pay premiums over market stock prices. Gates doesn't own a controlling interest. However, if there was a company who starting buying up stock AND WITH GATES portion could get a controlling interest - they might pay a premium.

However, again my points are simple 1) Gates worries about the dollar just like everyone else 2) If the dollar were to collaspe tomorrow MSFT doesn't own tangible property like land, gold, timber, etc. I'm not sure how extensivly their OPs control systems in say water plants, etc. They would be in more trouble than a company which produces something tangible. 3) Hopefully, Gates gets the type of advice he can afford and someone somewhere is telling him maybe a million shares worth of those stock sales invested in a few thousand acres in [insert your state of choice] or in regular silver/gold purchases over the past ten years isn't such a bad idea.

Point in fact: MSFT over the past ten years has returned an annual percentage of under 3%.

Gold or silver....well, we know where that stands. Hell, even ammo would have been a better investment than MSFT.

I sold my remaining .45 18 months or so ago at about a 230% profit
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:56   #1270
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Ferfal's experience in Argentina was that silver/gold appreciated SLIGHTLY better than the inflation rate.

His example (working from memory here) was that if X amount of silver could buy 1 loaf of bread before the collapse, then afterwards it was buying 1.25-1.5 loaves of bread.

No one got rich holding PMs, but they either maintained, or increased their buying power by a bit. But there was no buying a mansion for 2 ounces of silver, and staffing it with a harem of slave girls. . .
Argentina did not have the world's reserve currency. When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements, and the only way that would work is for gold to get repriced at about $50,000 per ounce or so and then float, rather than stay at a fixed exchange rate per currency unit. So, gold holders are looking at a huge one time revaluation. For most, this is hard to put their head around. They suffer from normalcy bias and can't envision a paradigm shift of this magnitude.

So, there is still hope for a harem of slave girls...if you own enough gold now.
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Old 11-27-2012, 13:09   #1271
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Argentina did not have the world's reserve currency. When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements, and the only way that would work is for gold to get repriced at about $50,000 per ounce or so and then float, rather than stay at a fixed exchange rate per currency unit. So, gold holders are looking at a huge one time revaluation. For most, this is hard to put their head around. They suffer from normalcy bias and can't envision a paradigm shift of this magnitude.

So, there is still hope for a harem of slave girls...if you own enough gold now.
Won't happen.
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Old 11-27-2012, 13:14   #1272
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...
When the world decides to abandon the dollar as the sole reserve currency, gold will be used again for international settlements
...
What makes you think another fiat currency won't replace the dollar, much like the dollar replaced the pound sterling?
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Old 11-27-2012, 13:37   #1273
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What makes you think another fiat currency won't replace the dollar, much like the dollar replaced the pound sterling?
All currencies are fiat. Unless we're going to be only using gold and silver as money, we will have a fiat currency.
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Old 11-27-2012, 13:39   #1274
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For gold to go to $50,000 ounce, everything else would have to go up as well. You'd be looking at $100 per gallon gas, etc. In other words, the dollar's value has collapsed.

If you think you're suddenly going to be able to buy a (in today's money) $1 million mansion for 20 ounces of gold, you're way off base.

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Old 11-27-2012, 14:43   #1275
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For gold to go to $50,000 ounce, everything else would have to go up as well. You'd be looking at $100 per gallon gas, etc. In other words, the dollar's value has collapsed.

If you think you're suddenly going to be able to buy a (in today's money) $1 million mansion for 20 ounces of gold, you're way off base.
You sir win the prize!

Gold won't change in it's value... everything else will.

We will of course end up with another paper currency to replace the dollar, or maybe just keep the dollar around and add extra zeros on some new bills. It's been done.

As to it happening it's when not if unless someone can explain how we can print half of what the government spends for the forseeable future and NOT have our currency effected.

Right now it's becoming a main stream media topic. How long do you think that it will take before people get smart or scared in our country or others? I think that as soon as people acknowledge the idea it will accelerate very rapidly.
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