GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2010, 00:52   #1
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
I have little more respect for AutoComp.

Yep, I know. I talked a bunch of smack about Winchester AC in the past. But I'm still right. AC sucks for published loads.

So I got suckered into loading 9mm Major for a local competitor that is trying to get me to be one of the few licensed manufacturers loading 9mm Major. Trouble is that requires a custom headstamp and $10,000 I don't have to buy 100K brass for the minimum order.

I started running AC with 124gr FMJ bullets at Major level. OK, I'm about 98% sold.

I'm getting 1380fps with a 124gr FMJ (not plated) from a 5 inch 1911.

Two OALs I'm working with are 1.170 and 1.145. The longer does 167 PF and the shorter does 171 PF with same charge weight.

This is what I'm talking about when I said "not usable within published data, but has potential if venturing beyond with understanding and respect".

Clean, soft (for Major), consistent, flat dot tracking, cheap to load. Powder doesn't spill either.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA

Last edited by freakshow10mm; 10-14-2010 at 07:51.. Reason: switched up the PF numbers
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:22   #2
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
If someones wants 9Major thell them to ream the barrel for 9X21mm and load it using that brass. Load data exist that is not over spec and brass is properly marked.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 05:29   #3
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
For the record. Look in a Lyman 49 manual. 9mm and 9X21 is the same basic brass just longer. If you load 9mm to 1.169 you should be at the same pressures as the load data for 9X21 and the extra capacity prevents you from being over pressure. So you should be able to load 9mm long and find something that is not overpressure if you look hard enough.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 07:38   #4
one73maro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 189
Hey freakshow have you loaded any 40cal with the autocomp? Wanting to find some good loads for the range. Thanks Jeff
one73maro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 08:00   #5
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Skip AC for .40 and just get WST or WSF.

Steve, I tried to talk her into 9x21 but she won't listen. Or even a Super or SC. I can load 9mm, x21, and Super on my 9mm Luger conversion on the 1050. SC will require a .223 shellplate, which I don't have.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 08:10   #6
fudd
Senior Member
 
fudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 168
I like it with .380 & cast bullets.
fudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 08:42   #7
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Winchester uses AC in their factory .380 ammo and has for some time.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 11:32   #8
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
Even if you don't load 9X21mm you can still load 9mm to +P levels. Just buy some +P brass. They are both the same thing if you can load the 9mm to 1.169". Then you can make major and still be with in spec which is all that really maters to you I would think from a safety perspective.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 13:37   #9
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Most major 9mm ammo is in excess of +P pressure.

9mm SAAMI is 35,000 psi.

9mm +P SAAMI is 38,500 psi.

.38 Super +P SAAMI is lower than that at only 36,500 psi.

Most of what I've seen 9mm Major loads are in excess of 40,000 psi and even as high as 55,000 psi, especially with "old major" loads (175PF with 180PF for chrono margin) when ran through QL.

From a safety standpoint, I'd like to get brass stamped "9mm Major" as even with Starline's +P stamp for load sorting. +P could be a Major load but a Major load could be over +P. I'll see if I can make major at +P and just use +P brass. I think I can get there with AC, but I'll have Hodgdon run the pressure for me. Goal would be 170 PF so there would be a 5PF margin for chrono.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 16:36   #10
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Most major 9mm ammo is in excess of +P pressure.

9mm SAAMI is 35,000 psi.

9mm +P SAAMI is 38,500 psi.

.38 Super +P SAAMI is lower than that at only 36,500 psi.

Most of what I've seen 9mm Major loads are in excess of 40,000 psi and even as high as 55,000 psi, especially with "old major" loads (175PF with 180PF for chrono margin) when ran through QL.

From a safety standpoint, I'd like to get brass stamped "9mm Major" as even with Starline's +P stamp for load sorting. +P could be a Major load but a Major load could be over +P. I'll see if I can make major at +P and just use +P brass. I think I can get there with AC, but I'll have Hodgdon run the pressure for me. Goal would be 170 PF so there would be a 5PF margin for chrono.
Like I said. You can load major ammo in 9X21mm using #7

124gr going 1334 (In the Lyman Manual). OAL is 1.169. Cup is 32,200, PF 165.

9mm brass and 9X21 is the same except OAL. So just load 9mm to the same OAL and you get the same result. Load 9mm using +P levels to get your 170PF that you need. Key is to load long. It's all in the Lyman Manual if you just look. They even have a 147 gr load that makes 170PF at the same CUP level.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 11:30   #11
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
#7 will also get Major in x19 brass when loaded to 1.170. Uses a bunch of powder but at $11/lb OEM, it's pretty cheap still.

Don't have the Lyman #49, just the #48. The #7 load you're referencing is listed here as a 1335fps with 1.09 OAL for 32.1K CUP.

Thing is hitting the exact PF is very risky, as you're at 164PF and you're shooting at minor.

Had a local USPSA shooter run 50rds of my ammo to see what he thought of it. He's got one of those fancy STI jedi guns with more bling than a gangsta rapper. Impressed him. Didn't believe it felt like major loads, but he shot a 10rd string over the chrono and was very surprised major ammo could be that smooth. If the pressure testing is within SAAMI +P, then it's game on.

PM me, Steve, if you're interested in the load specifics. Only a few people I trust on here to work it up if they want.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 11:51   #12
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
#7 will also get Major in x19 brass when loaded to 1.170. Uses a bunch of powder but at $11/lb OEM, it's pretty cheap still.

Don't have the Lyman #49, just the #48. The #7 load you're referencing is listed here as a 1335fps with 1.09 OAL for 32.1K CUP.

Thing is hitting the exact PF is very risky, as you're at 164PF and you're shooting at minor.

Had a local USPSA shooter run 50rds of my ammo to see what he thought of it. He's got one of those fancy STI jedi guns with more bling than a gangsta rapper. Impressed him. Didn't believe it felt like major loads, but he shot a 10rd string over the chrono and was very surprised major ammo could be that smooth. If the pressure testing is within SAAMI +P, then it's game on.

PM me, Steve, if you're interested in the load specifics. Only a few people I trust on here to work it up if they want.
I checked my #49 Manual. It looks like you posted 9X21mm data. And yep. It will make major pretty easily in the right situation. If you loaded +P it would be even better.
Actually 9mm data is about 150fps or more slower at the shorter OAL.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 12:00   #13
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Yeah, the #48 doesn't have a 124gr load, but it has a 125gr Sierra JHP load at 1.075 OAL for 7.8gr #7 @ 1119fps 31.6K CUP.

The load I posted above is the x21 data from #48 as that's the only 124/125gr load from x19, x21, or 38S that is north of 1300fps.

The Lyman is good for cast bullets, but since I have my loads from the #48 I worked up, I didn't bother with the #49 manual.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 18:27   #14
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Yeah, the #48 doesn't have a 124gr load, but it has a 125gr Sierra JHP load at 1.075 OAL for 7.8gr #7 @ 1119fps 31.6K CUP.

The load I posted above is the x21 data from #48 as that's the only 124/125gr load from x19, x21, or 38S that is north of 1300fps.

The Lyman is good for cast bullets, but since I have my loads from the #48 I worked up, I didn't bother with the #49 manual.
I don't think they changed it much.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 06:42   #15
srd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 283
Freakshow..i think its a great idea for you to load 9 major. There are people out there that want to use it but dont want to reload on there own. I load to 1.150 for my Tanfo using AC and MG 124JHP with a 172 PF. I used to use #7 but it was very dirty until i pushed beyond the load you are showing. I also use rifle primers. A friend of mine gave me some Silhouette loads to try. Nice tracking and very little dot movement. I picked some up the othe day to play with. Good Luck in you venture and i hope it works for you.
srd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 10:08   #16
shotgunred
reloading nut
 
shotgunred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N W Washington
Posts: 7,609
I bet there are a lot of people out there that would buy power factor ammo.
I would think IDPA power factor would sell A bit better than than major.
__________________
When dealing with Democrats, let us remember we are
not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with
creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudices
and motivated by pride and vanity.
shotgunred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 14:14   #17
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by srd View Post
Freakshow..i think its a great idea for you to load 9 major. There are people out there that want to use it but dont want to reload on there own. I load to 1.150 for my Tanfo using AC and MG 124JHP with a 172 PF. I used to use #7 but it was very dirty until i pushed beyond the load you are showing. I also use rifle primers. A friend of mine gave me some Silhouette loads to try. Nice tracking and very little dot movement. I picked some up the othe day to play with. Good Luck in you venture and i hope it works for you.
Silhouette, HS6, AC, and #7 seem to be good Major powders.

AAA hasn't loaded Major in over a year and don't have plans to do so for a long time either. Opportunity knocks and I'm heading to answer the door.

I'm running the idea of loading 9mm Major by my advisor team and see what they think. The ammo would be new brass with +P stamp from either Remington or Starline (depending on availability at the time of order) until I can get the $10,000 required to get my own headstamp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunred View Post
I bet there are a lot of people out there that would buy power factor ammo.
I would think IDPA power factor would sell A bit better than than major.
I currently sell a 9mm 130 PF load for suppressed applications. I use this load to shoot IDPA here locally with my H&H P7 PSP. I'm thinking of a slight model change by making ammo for the competition crowd, but extending a marketing campaign for the 147gr subsonic ammo. The minor PF ammo would be reloads and the major PF would be new brass only.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 16:11   #18
MoNsTeR
Senior Member
 
MoNsTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 588
Not using commodity brass defeats the entire point.

Agree that Autocomp works well in this application though, I'm in the process of switching from 3N37.
MoNsTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2010, 22:41   #19
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNsTeR View Post
Not using commodity brass defeats the entire point.
Commodity brass? Please clarify. I'm unsure what you mean.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 12:56   #20
MoNsTeR
Senior Member
 
MoNsTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Commodity brass? Please clarify. I'm unsure what you mean.
I mean if you were to go out of your way (and presumably pay extra money) to use +P or "9mm Major" brass, it would defeat the entire purpose of 9mm major, which is using dirt cheap brass. If you end up paying as much as you would for 38 Super brass, you should just use 38 Super (or 9x21 in platforms that can't fit 38 Super).
MoNsTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 15:41   #21
DWARREN123
Grumpy Old Guy
 
DWARREN123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CLARKSVILLE TN
Posts: 3,932
I found that AC for 165gr 40 cal is good. This is the only 40 cal load that beats Longshot in my guns. Lower pressure at higher FPS.
__________________
Have a Nice Day
DWARREN123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 23:10   #22
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoNsTeR View Post
I mean if you were to go out of your way (and presumably pay extra money) to use +P or "9mm Major" brass, it would defeat the entire purpose of 9mm major, which is using dirt cheap brass. If you end up paying as much as you would for 38 Super brass, you should just use 38 Super (or 9x21 in platforms that can't fit 38 Super).
OK I see now. Problem with Major is I don't want some fool shooting Major reloads in their gun if it's not a 1911 or aftermarket KKM barrel in a Glock built for 9mm Major, hence the desire for marked brass. New brass is about $100/K and custom headstamp is a bit lower plus a $750 tooling charge and the minimum 100K order makes it a $10,000 initial order. No way can I afford that.

I do have a source for relatively inexpensive known OF brass and that's the only stuff I'd reload for Major. I think I'm just going to concentrate on Minor, save some cash, and then look to loading Major when I can get custom brass.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 23:27   #23
VN350X10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: McHenry, IL
Posts: 8,039
I've tested 9 major for several years, using the OEM barrel in my G34. No problems so far, but the open gun I'm building for my son Mike is using a KKM.
Vhit powders make major PF within SAAMI pressure levels, but for a commercial loader, it's NOT cost effective !
My loads are using 3N37/3N38 either one pushing a 147 ggr bullet, this lets the pressures be not so gonzo, but it still is a definite MAJOR on steel !
I load as long as is possible with a Glock mag, this is where a 1911 platform has the advantage, it will work with a lot longer ammo.
Just a reference point....Hirtenberger L7A1 headstamp NATO ammo makes a pf of 174 out of a stock G34 barrel. It's a 124 gr & averages 1404 fps. over my chrono.
And since it has the NATO mark (cross in circle) Glock says "Go ahead & shoot it!"
Just getting a bit hard to find now.....

uncle albert
__________________
NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor for Rifle & Pistol, Illinois State Rifle Assn. - Life Member, GSSF Life Member,N.R.O.I. level I, IL Glockers #34
G: 19,20(x2),21,22,23(x2),24,27,29,34,35 & 36 (still counting)
USPSA, IDPA,

Last edited by VN350X10; 10-25-2010 at 23:28..
VN350X10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2010, 01:24   #24
freakshow10mm
10mm Advocate
 
freakshow10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 11,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Vhit powders make major PF within SAAMI pressure levels, but for a commercial loader, it's NOT cost effective !
It's less than a $10 difference per case. I wouldn't be concerned with that small a difference. Minor loads it's less than $3 per case. Don't sweat the small stuff.
__________________
Commercial ammunition manufacturer since 2006.
You can kill it. We can help.
My commercial load data
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA
freakshow10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2010, 07:45   #25
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
I've tested 9 major for several years, using the OEM barrel in my G34. No problems so far, but the open gun I'm building for my son Mike is using a KKM.
Vhit powders make major PF within SAAMI pressure levels, but for a commercial loader, it's NOT cost effective !
My loads are using 3N37/3N38 either one pushing a 147 ggr bullet, this lets the pressures be not so gonzo, but it still is a definite MAJOR on steel !
I load as long as is possible with a Glock mag, this is where a 1911 platform has the advantage, it will work with a lot longer ammo.
Just a reference point....Hirtenberger L7A1 headstamp NATO ammo makes a pf of 174 out of a stock G34 barrel. It's a 124 gr & averages 1404 fps. over my chrono.
And since it has the NATO mark (cross in circle) Glock says "Go ahead & shoot it!"
Just getting a bit hard to find now.....

uncle albert
That has been my point from the start. 9X21mm (which is the same as 9mm in most way just loaded long in a longer case) is capable of making major simply due to the longer length and case volume. Find the right powder, load 9mm to 1.169" and you should be able to find several combos that make major and not exceed sammi spec for +p and even several that or within standard SAMMI spec.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:51.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,174
356 Members
818 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42