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Old 09-12-2010, 20:41   #1
halfmoonclip
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Sigma trigger is just awful?

I'm a longtime fan of S&W handguns due to their decent products and great customer support.
Tonight I shot a buddy's Sigma .40. It had, arguably, the worst trigger I've ever experienced in a handgun. The pull was long and gritty, with significant stacking at the end. On several shots, I thought some safety was on.
The trigger was so bad that it was difficult to tell how good or bad the gun was otherwise.
Is the really awful trigger typical of Sigmas, and will Smth do anything about it?
Moon
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:29   #2
MSgt Dotson
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I dry fired one sample, and, admittedly, it seemed to be the equivalent of a 14-15 lb Glock trigger....

I think there are a few folks removing one of it's two trigger springs to lower the pull into the 'mortal' range (7 lbs), but, since I don't own one, have never investigated these claims...
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:17   #3
halfmoonclip
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Thnx, sarge. I have a Glock, and its trigger feels like a M-52 Smith by comparison.
The gun's owner has been struggling with it; he's a pretty fair shot, but many hits tend to be all over the place. Another experienced Glock shooter and I tried it last night, and the other guy described it as a 'combat trigger'. It is; the shooter is in combat with the trigger the whole damn time. I honestly thought some kind of manual safety was on at the end of the trigger stroke.
Sarge, others, any more info?
Moon
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:34   #4
chessail 77
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Trigger

S&W has great customer service, just contact LSG an authorized repair center and tell them you have a gritty trigger and they should send you a shipping label and repair it ....
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:11   #5
halfmoonclip
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Originally Posted by chessail 77 View Post
S&W has great customer service, just contact LSG an authorized repair center and tell them you have a gritty trigger and they should send you a shipping label and repair it ....
No doubt that is true (personal experience with Smith customer service is exemplary...I wouldn't be that kind to me if I were them.)

But my buddy had had all the fun he cared to have, and traded it away. In perfect honesty, the trigger was so bad that it felt more like a geometry problem than something that needed to be polished.

Can't Smith get somebody from the revolver side of the house and have them help design an auto trigger?
Thnx all,
Moon
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:25   #6
mgo
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Speaking just for me, as a new Sigma 9VE owner, my personal Sigma pistol, bone stock out of the box works really well.

All I did was de-grease the sear mating surfaces (easily reached with the pistol field stripped, but not detail stripped), dry fired it a hundred or so times, and then lubed it with a dab of Slide Glide product.

The Sigma pistol uses a full double action striker setup, where the striker is fully at rest. (unlike the Glock's half cock and the S&W M&P's full cock striker)

Compared to the old H&K VP70 pistol, and today's modern H&K pistols, as well as the Beretta 92 series, and many other brands, my Sigma trigger pull is really quite nice.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:12   #7
halfmoonclip
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Originally Posted by mgo View Post

The Sigma pistol uses a full double action striker setup, where the striker is fully at rest. (unlike the Glock's half cock and the S&W M&P's full cock striker)

Compared to the old H&K VP70 pistol, and today's modern H&K pistols, as well as the Beretta 92 series, and many other brands, my Sigma trigger pull is really quite nice.
I'm really willing to be wrong about this, but I'm virtually certain my buddy's gun had no second strike provision, and thus remained at some Glockish halfcock.
I'll double check it with him, but, as I said, this issue was way beyond 'gritty'; and at the end of the (rather short; another reason I'm fairly certain that there was no second strike ability) the damn thing had to be over ten pounds...maybe a LOT over.
Moon
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:46   #8
mgo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
I'm really willing to be wrong about this, but I'm virtually certain my buddy's gun had no second strike provision, and thus remained at some Glockish halfcock.
I'll double check it with him, but, as I said, this issue was way beyond 'gritty'; and at the end of the (rather short; another reason I'm fairly certain that there was no second strike ability) the damn thing had to be over ten pounds...maybe a LOT over.
Moon
You are correct; there is no second strike capability with the Sigma. The slide must be moved back a bit to reset the sear.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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My non-technical understanding is that the striker does not go into a half cock or full cock mode after the pistol completes its firing cycle, which means the striker must travel farther as the trigger is pulled to accomplish the next shot. In other words, the striker is not partially cocked as the pistol returns to battery.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This, of course means that more finger pressure is required to make the pistol fire, than one would have with the Glock (half cock in battery) or the S&W M&P (which reverts to a fully cocked striker in battery)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This explains why the trigger take-up is a bit longer with the Glock and much longer with the M&P, before the sear is engaged during firing. It also explains why the Glock and S&W trigger is pounds lighter. The slide's return to battery reduces the trigger pull because it has already partially or fully cocked the striker.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Interestingly, I have seen the M&P pistols with very gritty long take-up, but my own M&P example is really very nice with zero grittiness or other unpleasantness.<o:p></o:p>
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Old 09-27-2010, 13:57   #9
halfmoonclip
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mgo, not meaning to argue, but I suspect that the striker is left in a partially cocked position; if the trigger was imparting all the energy, then a totally uncocked striker could be drawn back and made to fire again with the trigger alone. (This is the conclusion I drew from your previous post...) This gun requires that the slide be pulled back a small amount to preset the striker. If it doesn't work like a Glock, it sure seems like it should.
Anyway, thnx for the comeback, and, as I said, Smith has lost a sale in this case. We've told the guy that Smiths are usually better than this.
Best,
Moon
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Old 09-27-2010, 14:15   #10
mgo
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mgo, Anyway, thnx for the comeback, and, as I said, Smith has lost a sale in this case. We've told the guy that Smiths are usually better than this.
Best,
Moon
Enjoyed the conversation. Safe shooting to you all...
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Old 10-18-2010, 17:57   #11
ecmills
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All Sigmas have a 18-500 pound trigger. It's why the didn't sell (although the Glock lawsuit didn't help) and are currently so cheap.

Ugh.
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It's not impossible to reach the slide stop
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Old 10-18-2010, 21:02   #12
halfmoonclip
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All Sigmas have a 18-500 pound trigger. It's why the didn't sell (although the Glock lawsuit didn't help) and are currently so cheap.

Ugh.
That is both funny and about right on both counts.
What happens when old-line gun companies attempt to go a little low-ball on new products (Smith and Walther come to mind...).
I love Smith for their revolvers and older autos, and for their incomparable customer service, but their newer autos fall a lot short of perfection.
Moon
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Old 10-19-2010, 20:25   #13
bac1023
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Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of my Sigma's trigger.
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Old 10-19-2010, 21:06   #14
halfmoonclip
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Triggers have been an ongoing problem for me; I can sorta hit things with a lousy trigger, but a good one just makes life so much easier.
Even Glock triggers, which are what they are, don't bother me because they have a smooth, predictable, and not terribly heavy 'creep'; no hitches or glitches.
Smith revolvers are a day at the beach to tune, but things like ARs and 1911s are downright contrary for what should be a simple mechanism, and unsafe if done wrong.
Unhappily, litigation-conscious gun companies err on the side of extreme caution; hence the Sigma.
Moon
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