Millett DMS 1-4x vs Falcon Menace 1.5-5x

M1A Shooter · 10-16-2010, 23:15

been looking at the millett dms for a bit but also found the falcon menace in a 1.5-5x compact scope.

at least in theory, i like the speed of the dot reticle and the ability to shoot with both eyes open on the low setting in the dms but also like the illuminated TMR-type reticle on the falcon.

both are in the same price range. which would you choose? anything else i should look at under the 300 range?

this will be used for a semi-spr type setup on a 16" stag. this is my second AR. my first has a PA aimpoint clone on a 14.5 upper.

mjkeat · 10-16-2010, 23:45

I had good luck w/ the Millett

Rebel_James · 10-17-2010, 21:06

I'm running the Millett DMS on my Stag Patrol Rifle. Totally satisfied with it.

.

Novocaine · 10-18-2010, 02:25

You would not be able to shot w/both eyes open the way you do with PA for the simple reason DMS-1 is the telescopic sight, not collimating sight. Even if it would be a true 1X at low magnification which it's not. Maxflip has a thread going on the similar subject.

Falcon Menace reticule seems to be too fine for fast close range work and the scope is rather heavy. Field of view is significantly narrower than competition. I do like the fact the turrets are available in mrads but the turret click value is too fine for this type of scope. On the other hand the rangefinder is on the coarse side.

To me Leatherwood CMR seems like the best choice in this price range ($250). I should receive mine shortly and will have to run it through its paces before recommending though. I do have Millett and will recommend against it.

Gribble · 10-18-2010, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocaine

To me Leatherwood CMR seems like the best choice in this price range ($250). I should receive mine shortly and will have to run it through its paces before recommending though. I do have Millett and will recommend against it.

The CMR is a great scope for the money.......

M1A Shooter · 10-18-2010, 17:44

didnt know about the CMR. will look into it also.

humanguerrilla · 10-18-2010, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocaine

You would not be able to shot w/both eyes open the way you do with PA for the simple reason DMS-1 is the telescopic sight, not collimating sight.

Maybe not as well, but I don't have a problem shooting both eyes open with my DMS1 at 1x.

M1A Shooter · 10-18-2010, 21:05

just ordered the DMS. the other reticles were nice but inside the ARs usable distance i didnt figure it ould matter as much. ill go with the 50/250 zero and check it out at range this weekend

Novocaine · 10-19-2010, 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanguerrilla

Maybe not as well, but I don't have a problem shooting both eyes open with my DMS1 at 1x.

Sure you can do it, you can do it at 4X. You can shoot with both eyes open with any scope at any distance, it's preferred technique to some. However even if it would be a true 1X which DMS-1 is not it's still a telescope. Means there's parallax and there's limited eye relief. Means you have to worry about the position of your head relative to the scope, your eye should be aligned with the optical axis and be a certain distance from the ocular.

You have to make sure that you see the target with the eye behind the scope. If you will allow your non-aiming eye to become dominant at the time when you break the shot (by scanning surroundings on the “off” side, for instance) you will blow a headshot at five feet. At room distance it will not be the question of missing BG it will be the question of by how much.

1X reflex doesn’t have these issues.

Novocaine · 10-19-2010, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by M1A Shooter

just ordered the DMS. the other reticles were nice but inside the ARs usable distance i didnt figure it ould matter as much. ill go with the 50/250 zero and check it out at range this weekend

Good luck. Many people seem to be happy with it. If nothing else you can always use it as a weapon by itself

M1A Shooter · 10-23-2010, 15:01

got the DMS out to the range today. i like it. the illumination is almost worthless out in the sun. i wasnt in direct sunlight but the highest setting was just bright enough to see. i actually prefer the non illuminated reticle at 50 yards an beyond but the illumination is very bright indoors and will probably help closer to dawn or dusk.

sighted it in dead on at 50 yards. was about 1.5-2" high at 100. was really wanting to get it out to 2-400 but that part of the range was closed today.

i like the precision the 1moa dot is capable of but also the speed of the 16moa circle. at 100 i was able to keep them all on a 12x18 target by just using the circle off hand and shooting pretty rapidly. good wnough for combat accuracy. also had less than 1" groups at 50 yards and about 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

overall i think its definately worth the price. accurate enough to do all i need it to and still able to shoot with both eyes open and the dot illuminated for close in work.

also as a sidenote, my wifes rifle has a PA reddot mounted in an aimpoint ring on the aimpoint scout mount. ive taken the dot off the rail with the QD bolt and reattached it twice while playing with it over the last month and it was still spot on at 50 yards today and 1.5-2" high at 100. right where i wanted it to be.

Abull · 10-23-2010, 21:08

I recently installed a 2x7 Vortex I purchased on clearance from SWFA. I was thinking SPR also and looking more for longer range precision. Surprised at the quality of this scope, nice and clear. Looking through it with both eyes open is surprisingly easy at 2x. Still think I will order a CMR and put it on a different rifle, this was the scope I was originally looking to buy anyway.

M1A Shooter · 10-23-2010, 21:14

i think i may be willing to put a scope similar to the cmr on my next full length rifle build. i like the finer reticle but may also look at higher magnification for it. not really sure yet but i like the magnified dot so far.

stengun · 10-25-2010, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novocaine

Sure you can do it, you can do it at 4X.

You have to make sure that you see the target with the eye behind the scope. If you will allow your non-aiming eye to become dominant at the time when you break the shot (by scanning surroundings on the “off” side, for instance) you will blow a headshot at five feet. At room distance it will not be the question of missing BG it will be the question of by how much.

1X reflex doesn’t have these issues.

Howdy,

You need more practice. I have a Simmons Pro 50 2.5-10x50 on one of my CAR-15s and I shoot with both eyes open and I do not miss close up head shots on 2.5x power. But I've been shooting with scopes for +35yrs and I have fired over 35,000rds with my Pro 50. Practice, practice and practice. I guess if o had limited trigger time behind a scope I guess this could be a problem.

Paul

Novocaine · 10-26-2010, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stengun

Howdy,

You need more practice. I have a Simmons Pro 50 2.5-10x50 on one of my CAR-15s and I shoot with both eyes open and I do not miss close up head shots on 2.5x power. But I've been shooting with scopes for +35yrs and I have fired over 35,000rds with my Pro 50. Practice, practice and practice. I guess if o had limited trigger time behind a scope I guess this could be a problem.

Paul

Paul, perhaps I need more practice making the point

Pretty sure I did say you can use telescopic sight (any telescopic sight at any magnification) with both eyes open. But you need to make sure you're looking at the target through scope, not with your "off" eye. If you're looking at the target with your "off" eye you will miss. By far. Period. Non-magnified collimator is infinitely more forgiving in this regard.

My "workhorse" gun wears 1-4 glas and I spend more time at 25 yards indoor range with it than outside. But my “HD” gun wears Aimpoint. And it would wear Burris XTS at 1/6 of the price before I'd go with Nightforce for the purpose. Given a choice why throw away technological advantage?

MichiganJFrog · 10-26-2010, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gribble

The CMR is a great scope for the money.......

My CMR will be here tomorrow. What mount is that please?

jrs93accord · 10-26-2010, 16:28

The DMS was a great choice.

Novocaine · 10-26-2010, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichiganJFrog

My CMR will be here tomorrow. What mount is that please?

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...tail.bok?no=30

I have similar setup except mine sits as forward as the rings will allow, this way it can be used with Kel-Tec. LaRue mounts make short work of the plastic rails on Kel-Tec but it’s for occasional use only, while the scope is looking for home.

After playing with CMR for a week I have a growing impression that I stumbled onto what very well may be the best “overall” .223 carbine glass for under $500. Can’t vouch for durability and battery life yet but it performs beautifully.

MichiganJFrog · 10-26-2010, 21:21

Quote:

I have similar setup except mine sits as forward as the rings will allow, this way it can be used with Kel-Tec. LaRue mounts make short work of the plastic rails on Kel-Tec but it’s for occasional use only, while the scope is looking for home.

After playing with CMR for a week I have a growing impression that I stumbled onto what very well may be the best “overall” .223 carbine glass for under $500. Can’t vouch for durability and battery life yet but it performs beautifully.

So that's the SPR and not the SPR-E ?

Novocaine · 10-27-2010, 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichiganJFrog

So that's the SPR and not the SPR-E ?

Correct. It will be good for most any AR scope, including DMS1 and CMR. Just make sure to order w/30mm rings.

(SPR-E would have rear ring directly over the front lever)

durian00 · 10-27-2010, 11:14

I know that the OP has already made the DMS-1 decision. I too have one. Love it except for the weight. Damn - 18 oz!

But not to muddy the waters but Primary Arms has a similar 1-4x (17 oz) out for $120. Looks similar (yeah I know - looks) but I'd consider it if I were looking around.

http://primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=205&categoryId=156

arodgers · 10-27-2010, 18:22

Got my CMR today and I'm impressed so far. Will be sighting it in on Sunday if the wife lets me out of the house.