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Old 11-09-2010, 23:52   #1
XDRoX
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How do you load for a round with no data?

I decided I want to start loading for a rifle that I don't shoot very often because of the price of ammo. The rifle is a Steyr m95. I picked it up on sale a while back for $59. I thought I got a deal until I paid for ammo


I have some brass, Graf's sells the necessary 205gr bullets. All I need is some load data. I looked in 4 of my manuals and IMR's online data resource and got nothing

The round is 8x56r Hungarian.
Reloading

So what do you guys do when there is no data?

At this point I'm willing to start taking guesses on how much powder to use.

I do have some factory ammo that I could pull, but then I'd be guessing on the type of powder. But if I need to take some pictures of the powder, so we could all guess, that would be fun as well.

Of course if someone has some actual data from a manual, that would be preferable.

Thanks
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Old 11-09-2010, 23:55   #2
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How do you load for a round with no data?

Ask Fred
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Old 11-10-2010, 00:01   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
How do you load for a round with no data?

Ask Fred
It's too late to phone him, so I decided to post it
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Old 11-10-2010, 00:10   #4
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So what about dies...never heard of that round?
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Old 11-10-2010, 00:49   #5
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Lyman should have it, if not, Load Data . com, but it costs, well worth it to me. Also IIRC the bullet diameter is .329, not the standard .323", but I have known people that loaded cast bullets for it. Years ago there was a bunch of nazi ammo in galvanized tins that still shot, but have not seen it for a few years(but have not been looking). Data is out there, just a little harder to find. I started loading for 7.62 Nagant revolver(a bring back dated 1937, probably the creepiest gun I have) in the '80s, but 30 carbine bullets work well in it and fiocchi makes ammo. Projects like this are fun. Good luck, be careful. On really scary loads/guns when I worked at a gun shop years ago, we would lash a rifle butt to the bead of a tire, and the fore stock too(something that will give with the recoil) , and fire with a string.

I think with the Powley computer if you knew capacity and pressures you could find a load, but that was old school to me and I am old.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:38   #6
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Many of the old 8mm service rounds varied quite a bit. First, I would slug the bore. It could be anywhere from 0.320"-0.330". If you want to purchase QuickLoads, it's the Powley COmp of this century. Then I would measure case volumn. Find a round in the books that has a sim case size & shape, the 7.62x54 Russian is close. Then you can use starting data w/ the heaviest bullet & work up w/ the chronograph & measuring case head expansion vs a factory fired round.
Yes, it's spooky, go slow, use starting charges & work up. There are a few guys loading w/ lead bullets over on Castbullets, here is a link that will get you closer.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=9279 It's also close to a 33 WInchester round, but without actula case specs or a case to measure, I'm guessing. There are several books; Cartridges of the World & The Handloaders Manual of cartridge Conversions that will have some info, but they are not cheap books & you won;t get a ton of use out of them. Another link where someone w/ some exp was loading for it. THis has some good stuff. http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26899
The guy breaks down a round; 0.330" bullet, 50gr+ of powder, probably medium-slow burner like RL19 or IMR4831. That puts it really close to the 7.62x54 w/ a 220gr bullet. It is a more advanced handloading adventure than just using book data, but like a wildcat round, it can be done.
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Last edited by fredj338; 11-10-2010 at 01:48..
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:20   #7
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Sounds exciting, but a little risky. I think you should wait till Fred comes down for that one. But if not, well use the method "tire to fire".
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:40   #8
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The Lee dies come with some data.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:10   #9
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As stated above, Lee sells dies for the 8x56R Austrian-Hungarian ( 8mm Hungarian M31) and it should come with load data. Maybe the Lee manual has data as well?
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:15   #10
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My laymans approach while thinking of how I might approach your dilemma was pretty much what Fred later posted. The approach he described sure appears sound. If still concerned, a lead sled and a ten foot section of twine might become part of your range staples.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:29   #11
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Thanks for replies and ideas. I think I'll go ahead and order the dies and bullets from Grafs. If the dies don't come with any data, then I'll follow your instructions Fred, thanks.

Justin, could you look in your Lee manual and see if there's any data?

Like Fred said, the round is very similar to 7.62x54R. I think I even read once that you could reshape 7.62x54R brass and use it for 8x56R. I'll take a picture of the two rounds side by side later today and post it.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:54   #12
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http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/ammunition.asp

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4249.html

Just passing along info, I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the data: http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/php...b35cd512dd6d66

Be safe and have fun with the project.

Rick
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay1 View Post
http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/ammunition.asp

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4249.html

Just passing along info, I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the data: http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/php...b35cd512dd6d66

Be safe and have fun with the project.

Rick
Thanks Clay, the first two I knew about, but the 3rd link has a lot of good data.
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:53   #14
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Well I have IMR 4198. Let's load her up. I still want to clean that gun and then fire from a tire.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 11-10-2010, 13:58   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Thanks for replies and ideas. I think I'll go ahead and order the dies and bullets from Grafs. If the dies don't come with any data, then I'll follow your instructions Fred, thanks.

Justin, could you look in your Lee manual and see if there's any data?

Like Fred said, the round is very similar to 7.62x54R. I think I even read once that you could reshape 7.62x54R brass and use it for 8x56R. I'll take a picture of the two rounds side by side later today and post it.
Using the slower powders, heavier bullet data, the slightly larger bore, you are pretty safe w/ starting loads. Finding proper bullets will be tough. You may have to start casting for that one.
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Old 11-10-2010, 15:10   #16
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This website has a little info.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpa...?CaliberID=533
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Old 11-10-2010, 15:14   #17
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Fred. Is this round similar to the 8mm Lebel. It looks very similar but the bullet diameter is .323 and case oal 1.967. Do you think we could use this load data to start with.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 11-10-2010, 15:25   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
Fred. Is this round similar to the 8mm Lebel. It looks very similar but the bullet diameter is .323 and case oal 1.967. Do you think we could use this load data to start with.
I though about the Lebel too, but didn't look up case dims. It all comes down to case volumn & bullet wt vs bore dia. What is Chris using for bullets?
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
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Old 11-10-2010, 15:36   #19
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Not sure, I'm sure he will chime in. But the case cap for the Lebel is 4.10cc. Not sure what the cap for the 8x56R is. They look identical except the Lebel is a tad smaller.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 11-10-2010, 15:59   #20
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Here are the bullets I am going to get:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/925

I assume they will work. The factory Hornady ammo that I have been shooting out of the rifle uses these same bullets and they worked fine.
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