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Old 11-12-2010, 23:29   #1
davesretired1
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FYI my .45 chrono session....

Finally got out to the range to run some loads through the chrono. I've been trying to find a bullet/powder combo that I can settle on.

I had originally worked up a load of 5.1 gr of WST ( max load according to Hornady) that shot very well with NO signs of overpressure when pushing a 200gr HP/XTP bullet. I'm doing all this in a G30. After reading this site for awhile, I came to understand that I could go no higher with the WST powder, so I decided to try some other powders ro see if I could up the velocity a bit ( I'm thinking Corbon speed).

I'll just mention the higher charges I tried for the different powders ( these averages were all based on five rounds each, using Federal brass, Win. primers, and Hornady 200gr HP/XTP heads ).....
WSF= 6.3 gr, avg. vel. 773.14fps with an ES of 28.8fps.
WSF= 6.5gr, avg. vel. 783.3fps with an ES of 46fps.
Universal= 5.8gr., avg. vel. 744.5fps with an ES of 40.4fps.
Win. 231= 5.3gr., avg. vel. 727.9fps with an ES of 89.7fps ( YOW!).
Win. 231= 5.6gr., avg. vel. 787.8fps with an ES of 56.5fps.

Finally, the load I began with...WST=5.1gr., avg. vel. 824.2fps with an ES of 26fps. So for what it's worth as far as I'm concerned, the WST seems to be the most consistant of the group, and had the higher velocity I was looking for. An interesting side note is that I tried to chrono both Corbon and Hornady Critical Defense loads and couldn't get a reading on the chrono. From the recoil and noise level, they are definitely more powerful than my reloads, but alas, due to their cost, I wasn't willing to try more than two each. I did try some 9mm later that was in the 1170fps range, so the chrono was still working. I have no idea what the problem was. Now I just got to buy more WST.
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Old 11-12-2010, 23:55   #2
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How many loads of the WST did you shoot throught the chrono? What is you OAL?

I load 4.9g with a 200g RNHB Bear Creek Moly and get 860 Fps average (5 rounds, 2 differet batches) with a standard deviation of 10 out of my Kimber Eclipse Pro II (4 inch barrel) rounds are loaded to 1.250 OAL. I can hit 900 Fps consistently at 5.1 max.

I realise guns and bullets are different just want a comparison for my records.
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:39   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesretired1 View Post
I'll just mention the higher charges I tried for the different powders ( these averages were all based on five rounds each, using Federal brass, Win. primers, and Hornady 200gr HP/XTP heads ).....
WSF= 6.3 gr, avg. vel. 773.14fps with an ES of 28.8fps.
WSF= 6.5gr, avg. vel. 783.3fps with an ES of 46fps.
Universal= 5.8gr., avg. vel. 744.5fps with an ES of 40.4fps.
Win. 231= 5.3gr., avg. vel. 727.9fps with an ES of 89.7fps ( YOW!).
Win. 231= 5.6gr., avg. vel. 787.8fps with an ES of 56.5fps.
.
Wow! You just sold me on the 45 GAP! With the GAP, I get 100 FPS more velocity with a lower ES using the same projectile (actually Speer 200gr GDHP or Rainier 200gr HP) and less powder.

Speer factory 200gr GDHP run 980FPS, so I know I can get to the mid 900s - low 1000s if I wanted to.

Last edited by dudel; 11-13-2010 at 05:41..
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:15   #4
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I've been loading 6.1 Universal with a 200 grn plated RN & it's still not pushing max. Just a safe all around load that cycles fine.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:38   #5
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I had pretty good results using Alliant Unique powder with my 200gr GDHP bullets. This data is what I came up with using my H&K USP 45 compact 3.8" pistol. I fired 5 rounds of each load through my chrono.

6.2 gr Unique, HI 924, LO 865, AVG 898
6.5 gr Unique, HI 938, LO 874, AVG 912

I was using Wolf primers, mixed brass and loaded to 1.155 OAL
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Last edited by gforester; 11-13-2010 at 09:39..
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:51   #6
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Dave:

If you want some fairly stout loads but still stay well within a safety margin just try the old stand-by, 'Unique', or if you like a little more excitement while still keeping your gun and hand in one piece pick up some Power Pistol. Great fun, great fun.

If your still confused about proper loading techniques you may want to consult your wife... no sense trying to re-invent what she's already perfected.


Jack
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:00   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davesretired1 View Post
I'll just mention the higher charges I tried for the different powders ( these averages were all based on five rounds each, using Federal brass, Win. primers, and Hornady 200gr HP/XTP heads ).....
[B]WSF= 6.3 gr, avg. vel. 773.14fps with an ES of 28.8fps.
WSF= 6.5gr, avg. vel. 783.3fps with an ES of 46fps.
Universal= 5.8gr., avg. vel. 744.5fps with an ES of 40.4fps.
Win. 231= 5.3gr., avg. vel. 727.9fps with an ES of 89.7fps ( YOW!).
Win. 231= 5.6gr., avg. vel. 787.8fps with an ES of 56.5fps.

Finally, the load I began with...WST=5.1gr., avg. vel. 824.2fps with an ES of 26fps. So for what it's worth as far as I'm concerned, the WST seems to be the most consistant of the group
IF you want that light of a load then yeah you learned something. BUT I would suggest that your loads are all way to light and that is why you have such large ES's particularly with the slower powders. I would retest some loads and start working them up. Too me 700 fps is really slow for a 200 gr .45 load
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:46   #8
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I gotta agree with Stevie. I take the 200 XTP up to 7.5 grains of WSF, 1.210" OAL (averages 925 from a 5" 1911, 865fps from a Glock 30)... this is over max in some of the data, so keep that in mind and as always, work up slowly.


I do shoot 200 grain lswc's in the high 700's, but that's a plinking load and the bullet doesn't have to do anything but cut a hole in paper or make a steel plate go "ding!".

Food for thought.
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Old 11-13-2010, 13:18   #9
davesretired1
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I totally agree that 700fps is toooo slow. What I did was look at the Hornady manual for a specific powder and pick a lower and upper charge within that range. At no time did I start off at the max load and go up from there. It seems to me that every manual I've looked at has different min-max loads for the same powder/bullet weight. I'm going to reload some of the powders I have to maxium ( as per the manual ), and retest them keeping my eyes open for any signs of over pressure. I think I'll also try some unique ( Jack can't be wrong, can he????).

My goal is to settle on one powder load for the 200gr head somewhere in the 850-875fps range. Then I'll be trying some loads for 230gr. ball with the intention of also settling on one combo. I'm not trying to reproduce a SD load comparable to let's say, Corbon.

To answer the question on my OAL, I measured a Corbon round with a simliar bullet at 1.212. I used that as a guide. Mine are measuring 1.217-1.219 OAL. I've had absolutely no function probelms whatsoever.

Thanks for all the comments!

PS to Jack......Thanks alot for the wife comment! She actually snickered at me for having such low speeds compared to her 9mm. She keeps this up, I'm getting her a single stage press!!
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Old 11-13-2010, 15:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudel View Post
Wow! You just sold me on the 45 GAP! With the GAP, I get 100 FPS more velocity with a lower ES using the same projectile (actually Speer 200gr GDHP or Rainier 200gr HP) and less powder.

Speer factory 200gr GDHP run 980FPS, so I know I can get to the mid 900s - low 1000s if I wanted to.
Since your GAP uses a 1/8" shorter case, I'd suspect that the difference is the depth of the bullet in the case. DavesRetired1 was using a OAL of 1.218". Your's may be less than that...leading to higher pressure and higher velocity. There is no magic in the GAP that I'm aware of.
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Old 11-13-2010, 15:59   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
Dave:

If you want some fairly stout loads but still stay well within a safety margin just try the old stand-by, 'Unique', or if you like a little more excitement while still keeping your gun and hand in one piece pick up some Power Pistol. Great fun, great fun.
Jack
Thanks, Jack. I'm kind of in the same boat as davesretired1 and have pretty well max'd out what I can do with W231.
I'm going to try Unique and PowerPistol also, as my W231 loads are pretty limp. I have these on the shelf. And Steve, I'll have to get some WSF; it seems to be pretty popular.
And Sourdough and Boxer and anyone else, thanks for info. This thread is what I've been looking for, to load my new 36.
Looks like Dave and I are gonna be busy loading for a while. There goes my allowance.
Sonnytoo

Last edited by Sonnytoo; 11-13-2010 at 16:06..
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Old 11-13-2010, 16:28   #12
Sonnytoo
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Some .45 Auto loads, commercial and reloads:

These worked fine in my G36. Use at your own risk. Some of these loads
are max'd out for W231 powder.

Speer Nickel case, JHP, 970, 979, 1006 avg 985 fps.

--------------------------------

sample size: 10 rounds or more with all reloads...
----------------------------------

Rainier, 230 gr plated RN, 5.1 gr W231, avg veloc 704 fps
0.740” crimp, 1.235” COL

--------------------------------------------

Rainier, 200 gr plated RN, 5.4 gr W231, avg veloc 720 fps
0.740” crimp, 1.235” COL (too long for 200 gr)

Rainier, 230 gr plated RN, 5.4 gr W231, avg veloc 765 fps
0.740” crimp, 1.235” COL

Remington, 230 gr RN, 230 gr plated RN, 5.4 gr W231, avg veloc 738 fps
0.740” crimp, 1.235” COL

Hornady XTP, 230 gr, , 5.4 gr W231, avg veloc 772 fps
0.740” crimp, 1.208” COL

Obviously, many of these loads are light, so all the posts from above will be very helpful.

Sonnytoo

Last edited by Sonnytoo; 11-13-2010 at 16:40..
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Old 11-13-2010, 19:59   #13
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After trying W231 and WST I now only use WST for .45. My favorite load is 5.0 grs of WST pushing a 200 Montana Gold JFP. The OAL is 1.21". I shoot this load out of a G30 and a G36 most of the time. My G21SF loves this load too. It is accurate, does not leave soot in the outside of the case, fairly clean burning and feels great when pulling the trigger.
I have probably shot around 3,000 rounds loaded with this recipe with no failures....
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Last edited by Glock21sf-miami; 11-13-2010 at 19:59..
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Old 11-14-2010, 13:50   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnytoo View Post
Since your GAP uses a 1/8" shorter case, I'd suspect that the difference is the depth of the bullet in the case. DavesRetired1 was using a OAL of 1.218". Your's may be less than that...leading to higher pressure and higher velocity. There is no magic in the GAP that I'm aware of.
Sonnytoo
No magic. I'm also using about 1 grain less propellant per round. It means that for every 5 ACP rounds I load, I can load 6 GAP. That's just additional goodness in my book.

The GAP has a beefier web by design. It can (and does) run higher pressures than ACP (but less than 9mm).
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:40   #15
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If you are looking for speed give Ramshot Silhouette a try. Ramshot data list a start load at 937fps and a max load at 1041fps with 200gr Hornady. I use Silhouette with 230gr JHP and find Ramshots data(fps) pretty close in my DW and Para's.
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Old 11-17-2010, 22:37   #16
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If you're looking for hot 45acp loads you might want to try Blue Dot. This is my choice for hot auto loads.

200gr XTPs run well over 1,100ft/sec out of 5" 1911 w/out pressure signs.

For 200gr lead loads I use Universal.

I have a G21SF on order and I'm interested in seeing how it does with my 1911 handloads.
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Old 11-17-2010, 22:56   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
Dave:

If you want some fairly stout loads but still stay well within a safety margin just try the old stand-by, 'Unique', or if you like a little more excitement while still keeping your gun and hand in one piece pick up some Power Pistol. Great fun, great fun.

If your still confused about proper loading techniques you may want to consult your wife... no sense trying to re-invent what she's already perfected.


Jack
I guess that means us single guys carry autoloaders.

Got the Power Pistol inventory loading, what's nice is that it's most accurate (1.5" @25yds in 2 Colts) high 900s/230gr, slower slide speed than Blue Dot because less powder is needed to achieve the same velocities.

It does brighten things up a bit outback;

Reloading

Enjoy

Bob
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:46   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerglocker View Post
How many loads of the WST did you shoot throught the chrono? What is you OAL?

I load 4.9g with a 200g RNHB Bear Creek Moly and get 860 Fps average (5 rounds, 2 differet batches) with a standard deviation of 10 out of my Kimber Eclipse Pro II (4 inch barrel) rounds are loaded to 1.250 OAL. I can hit 900 Fps consistently at 5.1 max.

I realise guns and bullets are different just want a comparison for my records.
Keep in mind he is shooting jacketed & you are shooting lead. My go to full power practice load is 5gr of WST under any 200gr bullet style for right @ 900fps, depending on OAL. WST is very consistent as to SD, but don't get hung up on that. It always comes down to how does is it shoot? If you have SD over 50fps & it still shoots sub 2" @ 25yds, who cares?
I agree w/ Steve, loading powders near starting data is never going to give best results, never. Pick an avg middle data from 2-3 manuals. Unique always does a good job in that range & higher as does WSF. WSF is just a better metering Unique. Try 7.1-7.3 for the 200grXTP @ 1.220" to get around 875-900fps, about like the factory Hornady load.
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Last edited by fredj338; 11-18-2010 at 08:52..
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Old 11-22-2010, 19:15   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Keep in mind he is shooting jacketed & you are shooting lead. My go to full power practice load is 5gr of WST under any 200gr bullet style for right @ 900fps, depending on OAL. WST is very consistent as to SD, but don't get hung up on that. It always comes down to how does is it shoot? If you have SD over 50fps & it still shoots sub 2" @ 25yds, who cares?
I agree w/ Steve, loading powders near starting data is never going to give best results, never. Pick an avg middle data from 2-3 manuals. Unique always does a good job in that range & higher as does WSF. WSF is just a better metering Unique. Try 7.1-7.3 for the 200grXTP @ 1.220" to get around 875-900fps, about like the factory Hornady load.
Thanks Fred. I don;t have a chrono and was wondering the fps of the load I use the most.
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Old 11-22-2010, 21:19   #20
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Quote:
Universal= 5.8gr., avg. vel. 744.5fps with an ES of 40.4fps.
Huh. I put 4.7gr of Universal under my 230gr LRN, so they must be going REALLY slow. No wonder I can see them in bright sunlight.
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