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Old 11-17-2010, 11:55   #1
Manzoli7
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TSA nude x-ray/Pat down

What do women on this site think of being required to take a nude x ray to fly or get patted down in a way where they grab your groin and feel your chest. As a male I do not want to have some guy grabing my private parts. I hear they actually grab them now. I also hear that if you submit to the nude x ray you can still be pulled asside for an enhanced pat down. I have also heard they use these pat downs on 6 year old boys and girls.

The court house in Orlando Florida was using one of these machines and did not erase the images of over 3,000 people and someone posted 100 of them on the internet but he mad them blurry and hid peoples faces to protect thier identity.

The nude x ray and pat down do not show the inside of body cavities. How many of you would not mind it if they said everyone has to submit to a body cavity search of all thier body cavities before they can fly? Or allow them to do this to your 6 year old kids. I would be against this but maybe 10 years from now the majority of people would think this is reasonable, esspecially if they grew up accepting the nude x ray and grabbing pat down.
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Old 11-17-2010, 19:36   #2
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basically, if there were any other way for me to get to Poland next summer besides fly, I would take it, because of the radiation issues (I've been irradiated more than enough in my life and don't need more, thank you), and because THEY ARE WASTING MY TAX DOLLARS patting down 6 years olds and grandmothers in wheel chairs. START PROFILING and stop playing stupid games with people's lives. Imbeciles. And BTW, I won't be taking my kids to Poland next year - and this is half the reason why. No one pats down my kids.

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Old 11-18-2010, 13:32   #3
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Originally Posted by Mrs.Cicero View Post
THEY ARE WASTING MY TAX DOLLARS patting down 6 years olds and grandmothers in wheel chairs. START PROFILING and stop playing stupid games with people's lives. Imbeciles. And BTW, I won't be taking my kids to Poland next year - and this is half the reason why. No one pats down my kids.

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+1. Well said.
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:05   #4
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Just to point out

Am I against um, yeah. Who trains those doing the pat downs? Are the screeners certified in doing these pat downs, or is it just the supervisor or whom ever is on hand that showed um how?

I flew from Spokane to Seattle in my boxers in 2004, do to TSA not understanding that warm up pants have snaps on the sides.

70 eyewitnesses to the fact that the screener had never seen pants with snaps down the sides, and force me to remove them and fly onto Seattle in my boxers.

When I boarded the flight the flight attendent gave me a blanket to cover up with.

And here's the kicker! My pants were waiting for me at the gate in Seattle with a TSA Supervisor. He insisted I put them on, I stowed up in my carry on, along with the blanket. He offered me a golf cart ride to the curb, he'd even get my baggage off the carousel, I could wait in the golf cart, but I walked got my own baggage and stood at the curb with him and a Seatac Police officer.

I rather proudly walked out of Seatac in my green plaid boxers that had no closure for the fly. I consulted 2 lawyers and all I got from the TSA was "We were acting under the Patriot act." Even with 16 statements from others on the flight I was advised it would be a long hard expensive lawsuit to win. The TSA supervisor? Nope no one by that last name works in Seattle although there was a guy with the same name working in Chicago. The Screener? Nope, no one of that name working in Spokane, although there was a screener by that name in Denver.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:01   #5
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my wife's pissed about all this mess. neither one of us are very interested in flying anywhere anymore. it's just nuts to deal with airports nowadays. very frustrating.
i remember in my childhood airports were fun to go to. i traveled, as a child (7-12), a lot by myself. it was an adventure. now air travel is one of the most stressful processes to deal with.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:52   #6
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:55   #7
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Old 11-20-2010, 23:15   #8
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Wonder why Obama supports this initiative... oh, right...
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:49   #9
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I am a female, but it seems that the now famous "touch my junk" guy should go serve some time in the military and find out what lack of privacy really means, and go engage our foes face-to-face in those countries that caused this 'inconvenience' in the first place.

Somehow, when I joined the Navy I learned (and you will learn in the service, or face the consequences), to simply give up most expectations of real privacy. I was only in 4 years active, but resolved myself to acceptance of less privacy, so x-rays and pat downs are still no real issue for me. What would be an issue is being a helpless passenger on an airplane of bombers and terrorists and dieing at my young age. Have the terrorists won when United States citizens are subjected to this inconvenience - you betcha! At least in some way. But x-rays/pat downs of all passengers beats the alternative - death by terrorist.

As for cavity searches, I am not certain if the x-rays provide enough detail, or not. Perhaps they do under certain conditions. The first time a terrorist slips through with explosive material in a body cavity, we will likely see an increase in x-ray strength or other seemingly MORE invasive technologies (in the public's eye). It seems however, that routine (manual) cavity searches will always remain cost and time prohibitive.

Taking out your frustrations on TSA agents themselves is non-productive. They are only the messenger and have certain expectations from their bosses and the flying public - and from me!
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Old 11-21-2010, 21:19   #10
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Old 11-21-2010, 22:14   #11
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I was hand patted in 2007 flying from Chicago to North Carolina. This is nothing new. I still don't understand why they chose me, I had alot of metal on my clothing that I wasn't about to take off, and full body scanners werent around then. They took me to a separate area and wanded me then any time the metal detector went off they would feel for explosives or a weapon. This took at least 10 minutes. Afterwards I went on my merry way.

I was flying in my US Marine Corps Service Alpha uniform. So I can understand their suspicion ....
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Old 11-21-2010, 23:50   #12
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I was hand patted in 2007 flying from Chicago to North Carolina. This is nothing new...

I was flying in my US Marine Corps Service Alpha uniform. So I can understand their suspicion ....
I gave up flying in any uniform that includes fruit salad and other (metal) devices. Once was enough several years ago, just because of what you mentioned. The excessive inconvenience and extra time was my beef - more than the pat down.

It does make an interesting scene at the airport when the military is wanded and patted down - or pulled aside like the rest of the potential terrorists.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:32   #13
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Old 11-24-2010, 17:48   #14
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Old 11-24-2010, 21:00   #15
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I think that being subjected to the pat down ( while not under arrest), or radiation exposure is unacceptable to be allowed to fly. A pat down done incorrectly is useless and dangerous, providing a false sense of security, so it should not become less invasive. As for the radiation exposure, per scan, cumulative,( is the TSA wearing radiation badges? ), I have not been able to find exposure level in millirads, discussion of genetic effects, neonatal effects at different gestation times. "ASSUMING" we believe that it is SAFE, we then must "ASSume" that the scanners will never fail to perform correctly100% of the time. So I guess that having radioactive material in an area accessible to the public where an explosive device could scatter it is a good idea??? Hundreds of people waiting like sheep to pass onto a safe flight? The terrorist does not need to be on a plane to injure/kill. I guess this is the HOPE and CHANGE that we get????
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Old 11-25-2010, 17:40   #16
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Part of the problem boils down to the simple fact that they cannot select for individuals who fit a "profile" that would identify them as a risk. They must treat all people... even three year old children... as risk. Yep... "Land of the free..." now has a whole different meaning. We must all be "safe" because if we are not "safe" we might have to deal with "risk." Personally, I will continue to fly. And when I deal with the nice little tsa folks, I will speak to them in whatever blunt way I chose. As far as I'm concerned, they are just one step from voyeurs and not far from criminals. But everyone needs to really bite on this... the tsa is acting far beyond any rational understanding of the Constitution. It will be nice to see them slapped down when someone finally gets this junk before the supreme court.
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Old 11-28-2010, 13:59   #17
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I was hand patted in 2007 flying from Chicago to North Carolina. This is nothing new. I still don't understand why they chose me, I had alot of metal on my clothing that I wasn't about to take off, and full body scanners werent around then. They took me to a separate area and wanded me then any time the metal detector went off they would feel for explosives or a weapon. This took at least 10 minutes. Afterwards I went on my merry way.

I was flying in my US Marine Corps Service Alpha uniform. So I can understand their suspicion ....

were you on orders. Legally they arent allowed to do any extra search on you if you are under orders so next time ask for a manager.
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Old 11-28-2010, 14:30   #18
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Hey I just got back from Hungary this past Tuesday (11/23). I did go thru the full body scanner in Amsterdam and it was nothing like what they are talking about and showing us here in the US. First they took my friend & I into talk to a security person before the scanner and x-ray machine. We were asked the standard questions about where we were coming from and going to and also what we had done on our trip. So I went thru the scanner and then I was patted down which I realized was because of my underwire bra. I did see the picture of me on the scanner and there is no way you could tell if it was a man or a women. It was just the outline of a person and there was a yellow box that showed up over the chest area so that is why they patted me down. When they did it they had me hold my arms up and they checked under my arms (the side of my bra) and then check my back where my bra fastens. That was all there was to the scan. I guess Europe is not using the same type of pictures that the US TSA is claiming to be using. Also, when I got to Detroit (my first stop back in the US), they had the full body scanner but were only using it on those who set off the regular scanner. So overall I didnít have any trouble going thru security and did not feel like I was being invaded. Maybe the US needs to take some lessons from Europe and tell us the truth about the full body scanners!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Old 11-28-2010, 14:48   #19
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Hey I just got back from Hungary this past Tuesday (11/23). I did go thru the full body scanner in Amsterdam and it was nothing like what they are talking about and showing us here in the US... ...I was patted down which I realized was because of my underwire bra. I did see the picture of me on the scanner and there is no way you could tell if it was a man or a women. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
They said on the news that new, less-invasive software/machines are being examined for use by TSA, so we'll see.

I used to travel about 20-25 weeks a year - but most of it prior to 9/11. I forgot about the underwires... had to stop wearing those, too.
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Old 11-28-2010, 21:41   #20
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basically, if there were any other way for me to get to Poland next summer besides fly, I would take it, because of the radiation issues (I've been irradiated more than enough in my life and don't need more, thank you), and because THEY ARE WASTING MY TAX DOLLARS patting down 6 years olds and grandmothers in wheel chairs. START PROFILING and stop playing stupid games with people's lives. Imbeciles. And BTW, I won't be taking my kids to Poland next year - and this is half the reason why. No one pats down my kids.

Mrs.Cicero
Therein lies the rub... If enough people didn't fly, they'd have to come to their senses & stop this crap. It doesn't keep us safe anyway.
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Old 11-29-2010, 00:51   #21
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Therein lies the rub... If enough people didn't fly, they'd have to come to their senses & stop this crap. It doesn't keep us safe anyway.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...ater-interview
Well... that was one man's editorialized opinion... Rather cheapens what many are doing out there on the front line to try to make us safer by at least continuing with the 'pressure' on the wannabes.

Okay... the system's not perfect, the procedures are invasive - but Al-Qaeda won't stop from their end, and we can't cease the defense from ours.

Ugh, this is getting too political.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:48   #22
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I gave up flying in any uniform that includes fruit salad and other (metal) devices. Once was enough several years ago, just because of what you mentioned. The excessive inconvenience and extra time was my beef - more than the pat down.

It does make an interesting scene at the airport when the military is wanded and patted down - or pulled aside like the rest of the potential terrorists.
BUT will Nancy Pee-Loosely get the porno-scan or feel up when she has to give up her private military jet and start flying commercial??????????????????

Anyone want to bet against her getting the VIP walk around?????????????
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:54   #23
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were you on orders. Legally they arent allowed to do any extra search on you if you are under orders so next time ask for a manager.
Believe this was addressed to Eurodriver, but I can think of another instance where I didn't stand my ground regarding that...

Flew to Houston in '06 or '07 for a SAR competition (Search and Rescue - ergo, my screen name...) - under orders. By that time I had given up flying in any dress uni because of the metal ringing all the bells, and was flying in civies.

I flew IN on one airline, but my flight OUT was cancelled on that same airline and I had to take a different airline home. To that airline, my flight looked like a one-way ticket and everyone knows that if you are a terrorist who is going to blow up a plane, you only purchase a one-way ticket - the idea being, you won't be alive to need a return ticket.

Well, the airline decided to hand-inspect my checked bag PRIOR TO having it scanned. More or less stood out in the open while a TSA agent removed all my underwear and EVERY other single item in the suitcase. She was wonderfully slow and methodical and it took at least 20 minutes while the clock ticked for my flight. Someone later said that I should have produced my orders and should have gotten a waiver on that bag search. Still not certain if that applies when not in uniform, but I suppose it does. Anyway, I had nothing to hide - except dirty underwear - so didn't press the issue.

Now when I fly - under orders or not - I check my EDC firearm. I don't fly as much now, but have had zero problems at any airport, on any airline, when doing so. But TSA has always been happy with the big scanners and have never opened my suitcase since (except once when I also had a lot of electronic gear stashed as well.) In that case, I was happy that they questioned it. That means that they may question and check the next person who MAY BE an actual terrorist.

The country came together immediately following 9/11 and there was a huge wave of patriotism. Now I feel that that date and those acts have been largely forgotten by many Americans. If some of you can remember back, the National Guard for several months was standing around airports with long rifles over their shoulder. Large public (family-oriented) gatherings, after they began again, had those same Nat'l Guard - something Americans usually associate with third world countries. (I think they call them 'developing' countries now.) Although we don't currently see that level of security any more, I think it's safe to say that we will NEVER return to pre 9/11 days - Bush called it the "new normalcy".
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:02   #24
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To SARDG: If you know any of the National guard that were stationed in NJ, ask them about "going through security " in uniform!!?? and their ammunition status!!, I think you might be surprised.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:55   #25
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To SARDG: If you know any of the National guard that were stationed in NJ, ask them about "going through security " in uniform!!?? and their ammunition status!!, I think you might be surprised.
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Don't know a sole in the Nat'l Guard. I'm former Navy and currently Coast Guard Aux. Also, never been to Jersey nor remember knowing anyone from there - or anyone who would admit it.

I'm not even certain if you are talking about ordered and uniformed NG with rifles and on duty in those airports. Please tell us what's on your mind. Inquiring minds...

Thanks.
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