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Old 11-20-2010, 19:19   #26
rockabillyrider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
Incorrect. You get too much info from Hollywood.

Unless you fabricate your own without a Form 1 (illegal), or steal one (illegal), you have to jump through paperwork hoops and wait time that make California gun laws look friendly. (In the USA - in some other countries you can go to the hardware store for one.)

It reduces my firearms to hearing safe and really reduces the recoil of my .308 - my daughter loves shooting that rifle.

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Old 11-20-2010, 19:22   #27
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Old 11-20-2010, 19:24   #28
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It is only my opinion, but, if one has a silencer or wants a silencer:

1. You are the people who 99% of the ordinary American public thinks is a dangerous gun nut;

2. Normal gun owners are asking themselves, what conceivable reason would a normal gun-owning person need a silencer?

3. You are probably a "wanna-be" who wears tactical sunglasses and has a bayonet on your AR.

I'm sorry, but give me a break. No flame. If it's legal, and it floats your boat, no matter what I happen to think of your boat, it's your right to be as weird as you want to be. It's America.
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Old 11-20-2010, 19:34   #29
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Here in WA we have some fun laws about suppressors: we can own, mount, and have ammo in a gun with a suppressor, but it's illegal to shoot. To do all of this of course we have to pay the tax to the ATF.

I have the Magpul pistol DVDs and they talked about how they liked to use suppressors in their home so that they could still hear after shooting. They went into that by saying further it'll help them know the location of their loved ones. Sounds like reasoning to CYA.
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Old 11-20-2010, 19:45   #30
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Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
It is only my opinion, but, if one has a silencer or wants a silencer:

1. You are the people who 99% of the ordinary American public thinks is a dangerous gun nut;

3. You are probably a "wanna-be" who wears tactical sunglasses and has a bayonet on your AR.
wrong.
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Old 11-20-2010, 19:45   #31
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
Nope.
Now in the 1960s and earlier there were some with rubber or felt wipes that touched the bullet, but not enough to change the rifling.

The original reason was to stop poachers.
Wipes are coming back.
At least one manufacturer is using them on a new model.

The idea is that it allows them to make a smaller and lighter suppressor.
It also allows them to make a 9mm suppressor that will be quiet when used as a 22lr suppressor.

The down side is that the suppressor is only quiet for a few rounds.
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Old 11-20-2010, 20:52   #32
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Perfectly acceptable topic in the free-fire forum, but not in General Glocking.
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:43   #33
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Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
It is only my opinion, but, if one has a silencer or wants a silencer:

1. You are the people who 99% of the ordinary American public thinks is a dangerous gun nut;

2. Normal gun owners are asking themselves, what conceivable reason would a normal gun-owning person need a silencer?

3. You are probably a "wanna-be" who wears tactical sunglasses and has a bayonet on your AR.

I'm sorry, but give me a break. No flame. If it's legal, and it floats your boat, no matter what I happen to think of your boat, it's your right to be as weird as you want to be. It's America.
A perfect example of exactly how successful Media and Pop Culture TV/Movies have successfully Demonized Suppressors.

"Any one who wants one must be on the lunatic fringe."
"Superior gun owners would NEVER want one, nor NEED one."

Let me ask you ONE question: Do you keep ear protection next to your nightstand gun?
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:05   #34
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Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post
Great post, except for the Class 3 license.......No such thing, just a approved $200 tax stamp.

Really? I thought it was a Class III license you needed to mfg or sell full auto?
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:09   #35
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Wrong. (and it's "suppressor", not silencer - 'silencer' is a Hollywood/mall ninja term that inaccurately describes what the item is capable of)

Incorrect.

The term "silencer" was not an invention of Hollywood at all.

While not technically correct, it was coined by Hiram Maxim around 1902.
But I (and I think the other poster) were referring to today when saying "Silencer" was a hollywood term... Of course, everyday Joe's and Josephine's still think Silencer, but weapon-wise people know it's "Suppressor"...
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:09   #36
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Really? I thought it was a Class III license you needed to mfg or sell full auto?
Technically, if you want to manufacture and sell full auto/silencers/SBS/SBR/AOW, you would need to pay a Class III Special Occupational Tax annually, and maintain a Type 7 FFL.

Last edited by rjrivero; 11-21-2010 at 10:10..
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:16   #37
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Not a good idea to admit to a federal offense in such a public place.......... unless you paid the $200 tax on that bottle.
LOL.... I better draw my shades and double lock the door...... I suppose holding a pillow at the end of a pistol would also get me sent to Guantanamo?
Seriously, I am sure they COULD nail you if they SAW you do it, or if you had them fixed to a weapon you had. But simply to say you did it just to see if it would work or not would probably not get you in trouble... Besides, statute of limitations expired years ago, even if they could PROVE it actually was done.

I'm just not that fearful or paranoid about the Govt..
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:19   #38
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To the best of my knowledge it was because a bullet that passes through a suppressor becomes ballistically changed
Really? How does it change it? I have never recovered a slug fired from a suppressed weapon, but I cant see how it could severely change the rifling grooves.. Inquiring minds would like to know!
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:19   #39
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Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
It is only my opinion, but, if one has a silencer or wants a silencer:

1. You are the people who 99% of the ordinary American public thinks is a dangerous gun nut;

2. Normal gun owners are asking themselves, what conceivable reason would a normal gun-owning person need a silencer?

3. You are probably a "wanna-be" who wears tactical sunglasses and has a bayonet on your AR.

I'm sorry, but give me a break. No flame. If it's legal, and it floats your boat, no matter what I happen to think of your boat, it's your right to be as weird as you want to be. It's America.
Some of us 'normal shooters' like the ability to shoot without hearing protection on. When I'm coaching my 14 year old daughter on marksmanship it helps to not have to yell over ear plugs.

If I have to discharge a pistol in my house for home defense, I would rather not risk permanent damage to hy hearing, or that of my wise and daughter, or my dogs.

IMHO, there should be a law mandating the use of supressors for hunting. That way it's more polite to non hunters in the area and to other hunters whi may be stalking prey that gets spooked by your shot.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:02   #40
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There are some places in France where you can be cited for NOT using a silencer.

In NZ you can buy them at the hardware store.

In many countries they are not regulated nor controlled in any way. Those countries have figure out that the only way a suppressor can hurt you is for someone to hit you over the head with it. And even then all you'll get is a bump.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:18   #41
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In NZ you can buy them at the hardware store.
I've always wanted to live in NZ..... They have always seemed to have their shiat together..
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Old 11-21-2010, 14:21   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrivero View Post
Technically, if you want to manufacture and sell full auto/silencers/SBS/SBR/AOW, you would need to pay a Class III Special Occupational Tax annually, and maintain a Type 7 FFL.


Approved Tax stamp just own any thing class 3.

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Old 11-21-2010, 14:23   #43
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With the exception for a Form 1 to make ONE item.
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Old 11-21-2010, 22:26   #44
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In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?

just saying... food for thought. The reason that they are looked at as "clandestine" tools and for assassins and spies in movies would surely not be enough to pass such regulations on their manufacture and purchase ...
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:48   #45
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...... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control....
I'm not buying it. Except for an all lead bullet, the copper jacket if pretty durable even at high temps. And lead bulelts deform and rifling striation marks get pretty messed up upin impact.

With a suppressor, the bullet is still untouched after it leaves the muzzle. Flying through the blast chamber and baffles is not going to be able to alter a copper jacket.

Considering the fact that rifling stiations change as a barrel gets worn, expecially with vigorous cleaning, you get better matches from the empty cases than you do from the bullets, unless you are in Hollywood.
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Old 11-22-2010, 06:38   #46
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

...
Must be based on extensive testing done during Med school, done during the class that teaches you that filing down a hammer on an AR15 makes it full auto, and 22lr bullets bounce around the human body upon entering doing massive trauma.

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Old 11-22-2010, 08:35   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?

just saying... food for thought. The reason that they are looked at as "clandestine" tools and for assassins and spies in movies would surely not be enough to pass such regulations on their manufacture and purchase ...
You have been watching way to much CSI..........

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Old 11-22-2010, 11:06   #48
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?..
Assuming we are talking about a can on the end of a barrel and not an internal suppressor, the ME IS WRONG.
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:14   #49
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Considering the fact that rifling stiations change as a barrel gets worn, expecially with vigorous cleaning, you get better matches from the empty cases than you do from the bullets, unless you are in Hollywood.
Yes rifling changes over time.
So does the empty brass and primer marks.


Shooting someone with a clean gun and then cleaning it will not eliminate this as a forensic evidence.
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Old 11-22-2010, 13:59   #50
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They ARE silencers. Suppressor and silencer can be used interchangably. www.silencertalk.com is the best place for silencer information including reviews, debuts, manufacturer contact, and is ran by Robert Silvers of AAC which is the biggest silencer manufacturer in the country. Silencerco is one of the biggest up and coming companies in the game. As someone said, Maxim invented the silencer whether they are truly silent or not is irrelevant. Seeing a pattern here? . Also many suppressors today are as "silent" as you see in the movies.

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