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Old 11-21-2010, 13:18   #41
Christof60
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
In NZ you can buy them at the hardware store.
I've always wanted to live in NZ..... They have always seemed to have their shiat together..
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Old 11-21-2010, 15:21   #42
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Originally Posted by rjrivero View Post
Technically, if you want to manufacture and sell full auto/silencers/SBS/SBR/AOW, you would need to pay a Class III Special Occupational Tax annually, and maintain a Type 7 FFL.


Approved Tax stamp just own any thing class 3.

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Old 11-21-2010, 15:23   #43
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With the exception for a Form 1 to make ONE item.
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Old 11-21-2010, 23:26   #44
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In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?

just saying... food for thought. The reason that they are looked at as "clandestine" tools and for assassins and spies in movies would surely not be enough to pass such regulations on their manufacture and purchase ...
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:48   #45
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
...... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control....
I'm not buying it. Except for an all lead bullet, the copper jacket if pretty durable even at high temps. And lead bulelts deform and rifling striation marks get pretty messed up upin impact.

With a suppressor, the bullet is still untouched after it leaves the muzzle. Flying through the blast chamber and baffles is not going to be able to alter a copper jacket.

Considering the fact that rifling stiations change as a barrel gets worn, expecially with vigorous cleaning, you get better matches from the empty cases than you do from the bullets, unless you are in Hollywood.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:38   #46
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

...
Must be based on extensive testing done during Med school, done during the class that teaches you that filing down a hammer on an AR15 makes it full auto, and 22lr bullets bounce around the human body upon entering doing massive trauma.

Last edited by TkFF; 11-22-2010 at 13:06..
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:35   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?

just saying... food for thought. The reason that they are looked at as "clandestine" tools and for assassins and spies in movies would surely not be enough to pass such regulations on their manufacture and purchase ...
You have been watching way to much CSI..........

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Old 11-22-2010, 12:06   #48
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
In terms of "generally outlawed" I mean that you cannot simply walk in to your neighborhood gun store and buy one in most circumstances due to the rediculous nature of our laws.

By the changing of ballistics I was told by an ME and two forensic sheriffs that in most cases the use of a suppressor changes the ballistic properties of the tail end of a slug, specifically the rifiling marks that can be pinpointed to a specific barrel in a case where they find the firearm that allegedly fired the round that caused a criminal fatality.

Many people would say that there is "no way" that a suppressor could alter the rifiling marks but think... the tail end of the bullet (slug) is super heated metal that is easily malieable by even the slightest change in control. How then is the idea that there is no way that an applied suppressor would alter ballistics logical?..
Assuming we are talking about a can on the end of a barrel and not an internal suppressor, the ME IS WRONG.
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:14   #49
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Originally Posted by DustyJacket View Post
Considering the fact that rifling stiations change as a barrel gets worn, expecially with vigorous cleaning, you get better matches from the empty cases than you do from the bullets, unless you are in Hollywood.
Yes rifling changes over time.
So does the empty brass and primer marks.


Shooting someone with a clean gun and then cleaning it will not eliminate this as a forensic evidence.
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Old 11-22-2010, 14:59   #50
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They ARE silencers. Suppressor and silencer can be used interchangably. www.silencertalk.com is the best place for silencer information including reviews, debuts, manufacturer contact, and is ran by Robert Silvers of AAC which is the biggest silencer manufacturer in the country. Silencerco is one of the biggest up and coming companies in the game. As someone said, Maxim invented the silencer whether they are truly silent or not is irrelevant. Seeing a pattern here? . Also many suppressors today are as "silent" as you see in the movies.

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Old 11-22-2010, 15:08   #51
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Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
It is only my opinion, but, if one has a silencer or wants a silencer:

1. You are the people who 99% of the ordinary American public thinks is a dangerous gun nut;

2. Normal gun owners are asking themselves, what conceivable reason would a normal gun-owning person need a silencer?

3. You are probably a "wanna-be" who wears tactical sunglasses and has a bayonet on your AR.

I'm sorry, but give me a break. No flame. If it's legal, and it floats your boat, no matter what I happen to think of your boat, it's your right to be as weird as you want to be. It's America.
There is nothing weird about suppressors. They protect your hearing, reduce recoil, reduce muzzle flash and make it easier for repeat hunting shots. Yes, you can hunt with them at least in Oregon. Also people new to guns find it more enjoyable and less intimidating. In Europe (I know, bad location example) it is considered impolite to shoot without one. Plus they are just plain cool and fun. I am not a wannabe and neither are any of the people I talk to who have "cans". I'm going out on the back porch to shoot my P22 suppressed with neighbors on both sides. Have a nice day.
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Old 11-25-2010, 18:09   #52
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Originally Posted by G21ACPBeliever View Post
Also, why has no one mentioned the reason that they are generally outlawed in the US? To the best of my knowledge it was because a bullet that passes through a suppressor becomes ballistically changed and the slug can no longer be matched to the rifling of the barrel of the gun it was fired from for a ballistic match to be used as evidence in a trial.
Umm, nope. If the bullet is coming in contact with the baffles in your suppressor then it is going to wear out in no-time.

Besides ballistic matching of rifling as shown in TV crime drama is more voodoo than real. Normally ballistic matching is mostly used to rule out if a gun fired the shot (5 lands on the bullet, 6 lands in the barrel). All it takes to totally change the ballistic signature of a barrel is to run a stainless steel brush through the barrel.

The real reason suppressors are controlled is the Feds don't want people to know how much fun it is to shoot a gun that goes "pew - pew - - - - - - - - - pew - pew - pew".

I am have decided I am going to get myself a .22 and 9mm suppressor for myself for Christmas. Now I just have to decide which ones to get.
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Old 11-26-2010, 13:28   #53
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I'm torn between getting a threaded barrel for my Glock and getting a suppressor or not... I just dont like the rights you give up for one.... It seems that if you decide to go full auto, or any of the other "special" tax stamps, you also forfeit your right to protection against unlawful search and seizure laws., i.e., they can enter your home any time and demand to look at whatever they want...
Not that I have anything to hide, I just wouldnt like the fact that they could...
And I was told this by an LEO who has several full auto's, suppressors, and SBR weapons.. His words of advice to me "make sure you know what you are giving up to have a cool toy"...
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Old 11-26-2010, 13:35   #54
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I am have decided I am going to get myself a .22 and 9mm suppressor for myself for Christmas. Now I just have to decide which ones to get.
I have a few .22 and 9mm suppressors and would be willing to go shoot some with you to let you see what you like and do not like.

email is in my profile

Last edited by bdavis; 11-26-2010 at 13:35..
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Old 11-26-2010, 13:38   #55
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Originally Posted by Christof60 View Post
I'm torn between getting a threaded barrel for my Glock and getting a suppressor or not... I just dont like the rights you give up for one.... It seems that if you decide to go full auto, or any of the other "special" tax stamps, you also forfeit your right to protection against unlawful search and seizure laws., i.e., they can enter your home any time and demand to look at whatever they want...
Not that I have anything to hide, I just wouldnt like the fact that they could...
And I was told this by an LEO who has several full auto's, suppressors, and SBR weapons.. His words of advice to me "make sure you know what you are giving up to have a cool toy"...
I have wondered if there is some actual wording or case law to back up what he says. I have heard this hearsay before but have never seen it supported.

Thanks
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Old 11-26-2010, 13:52   #56
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I'm torn between getting a threaded barrel for my Glock and getting a suppressor or not... I just dont like the rights you give up for one.... It seems that if you decide to go full auto, or any of the other "special" tax stamps, you also forfeit your right to protection against unlawful search and seizure laws., i.e., they can enter your home any time and demand to look at whatever they want...
Not that I have anything to hide, I just wouldnt like the fact that they could...
And I was told this by an LEO who has several full auto's, suppressors, and SBR weapons.. His words of advice to me "make sure you know what you are giving up to have a cool toy"...
There was a legal paper on NFA Title 2 items a while back that addressed these issues. An FFL for SURE gives up some privacy for ATF inspection, however, the Stamp for owning Title II's is a TAX FORM. Tax privacy laws apply.

So, the question really becomes one of having a Warrant or not. How hard is it to obtain a Warrant for "man with gun." Doesn't matter if you have a title 2 firearm or not. Warrants are easy to get for folks with guns.

Last edited by rjrivero; 11-26-2010 at 14:39..
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Old 11-26-2010, 15:15   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christof60 View Post
I'm torn between getting a threaded barrel for my Glock and getting a suppressor or not... I just dont like the rights you give up for one.... It seems that if you decide to go full auto, or any of the other "special" tax stamps, you also forfeit your right to protection against unlawful search and seizure laws., i.e., they can enter your home any time and demand to look at whatever they want...
Not that I have anything to hide, I just wouldnt like the fact that they could...
And I was told this by an LEO who has several full auto's, suppressors, and SBR weapons.. His words of advice to me "make sure you know what you are giving up to have a cool toy"...
Complete and total B.S.


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Old 11-26-2010, 15:43   #58
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Complete and total B.S.


Hey now, you know as well as I do that you and I are on a passenger manifest to Gitmo.......
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Old 11-26-2010, 15:58   #59
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Technically, if you want to manufacture and sell full auto/silencers/SBS/SBR/AOW, you would need to pay a Class III Special Occupational Tax annually, and maintain a Type 7 FFL.
Nope.

MFGs have a type 07 FFL, and a 02 SOT.

Back on topic - Once you shoot a firearm with it is hard to go back. So much more comfortable to not wear hearing protection, and to be able to hear sounds around you.

Just got back to the house from shooting my silenced HK/UMP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXcq92HooLw

Last edited by RenegadeGlocker; 11-26-2010 at 16:02..
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Old 11-26-2010, 16:02   #60
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Originally Posted by Christof60 View Post
..It seems that if you decide to go full auto, or any of the other "special" tax stamps, you also forfeit your right to protection against unlawful search and seizure laws., i.e., they can enter your home any time and demand to look at whatever they want...
Untrue

Quote:
And I was told this by an LEO who has several full auto's, suppressors, and SBR weapons.. His words of advice to me "make sure you know what you are giving up to have a cool toy"...
He is wrong
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