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Old 11-26-2010, 12:11   #1
10mmman
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Max OAL for glock M20 (via M21) 200XTP?

Hi All,

I'm working up a deer load for an aftermarket 5.5" barrel with good case support in my M20SF. I've long loaded 10mm for my 610 for years with great results.

Given that loading manuals and on line specs show the max OAL for the .45ACP round at 1.275 and factory loaded Hornady +P 230 gr XTP's run around 1.35 and seem to work just fine in M21s, why could we not load 10mm longer for the Glock large frame magazine?

I've seated several dummy rounds of 200 gr. XTPs (I have a boatload of 'em I bought at the factory as cosmetic seconds for $6 a box muhahahahah) out to 1.275.

They seat fully in the chamber and after pressing in and still rotate freely so I know I'm not engraving yet. They hand cycle with out a problem and still have a bit of play fore & aft when stacked in a mag. The 200 XTP still has considerably more bullet in the case than a 180 XPT loaded to 1.26 (even more of those purchased for the same amount.)

My thought is to start with an OAL of 1.274, 13.3 gr AA#9 (hand weighed) and build a pressure series up in .2 gr increments.

I'm using new brass with Win. standard primers, a Wolff steel rod & 22lb spring.

Am I overlooking something? Is there a fault in my logic?

I'm in Iowa, and we have some dang thick whitetails here, I want to reliably shoot T&T a broadside monster's boiler room @ 50 yards.

TIA

X (the Centimeter Guy)
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Old 11-26-2010, 15:00   #2
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Hmmm...I don't see the point in loading them long. How fast do you want it out of that 5.5" bbl?

I would expect you could easily get the 200 xtp bullet in the mid 1300 fps range out of that bbl. by working up 800x w/CCI 350s, and that's at 1.260" COAL - and would expect it to be at or near the 37.5kpsi max saami std. set for the cartridge.

PLENTY of power for any deer in Iowa.

In my opinion, AA#9 can't compete with the velocity available to the 10mm from 800x.

If you look at the books, make sure you note the listed pressures.
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Old 11-26-2010, 16:25   #3
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max OAL 200gr HDY XTP

I had to shorten down my 200gr HDY XTP rounds from 1,277 to 1.270-1.272 otherwise they did often stuck in Glock 10mm magazine. Too bad that hollows became squeezed a bit - hope that wild boars won't notice
Or should I fix squeezed hollows w. hand-drilling some lead out of it?
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Old 11-28-2010, 22:16   #4
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What I'm asking is...

What is the longest OAL that works in the M20/21 length magazine. I may try X800 again, but my question is about cartridge over all length- especially with a .40 XTP.

How fast do I want to go? Fast as I can in a cartridge as long as can be reliable in the platform I'm using, taking all reasonable precautions- ie new brass used once etc. Just like I did with my 610.

Robert -sounds like you had luck with 1.270. Can't say I follow all your post, but I personally wouldn't mess with removing lead - adds too many variables.

Thanks
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:42   #5
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Fixing the hollow

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mmman View Post
What is the longest OAL that works in the M20/21 length magazine. I may try X800 again, but my question is about cartridge over all length- especially with a .40 XTP.

How fast do I want to go? Fast as I can in a cartridge as long as can be reliable in the platform I'm using, taking all reasonable precautions- ie new brass used once etc. Just like I did with my 610.

Robert -sounds like you had luck with 1.270. Can't say I follow all your post, but I personally wouldn't mess with removing lead - adds too many variables.

Thanks
Today I fixed squeezed hollows on 5 of these rounds. I weighed each round before and after. The difference was 0.3 or 0.4 grains. IMO it ain't much lead and now hollow looks like it should. The hollows were squeezed because I used the same side of bullet seater die for GDHP (they are OK) and XTP bullets. If I did turn upside-down the small part inside the die, XTP bullets would be supported also by side when seating them. But now all the force came from top and it squeezed the hollow.
Mea culpa - on learnin' to reload
Unfixed bullets were still very accurate at the range, next time we'll see about these fixed. I shoot them at 25m distance (27 yards), target is 50x50cm ISSF for pistol. Too bad now is about a half meter of snow on the range (and still snowing), I'm afraid of abstinence crisis next few weeks or months
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Old 12-27-2010, 16:46   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mmman View Post
Hi All,

I'm working up a deer load for an aftermarket 5.5" barrel with good case support in my M20SF. I've long loaded 10mm for my 610 for years with great results.

Given that loading manuals and on line specs show the max OAL for the .45ACP round at 1.275 and factory loaded Hornady +P 230 gr XTP's run around 1.35 and seem to work just fine in M21s, why could we not load 10mm longer for the Glock large frame magazine?

I've seated several dummy rounds of 200 gr. XTPs (I have a boatload of 'em I bought at the factory as cosmetic seconds for $6 a box muhahahahah) out to 1.275.

They seat fully in the chamber and after pressing in and still rotate freely so I know I'm not engraving yet. They hand cycle with out a problem and still have a bit of play fore & aft when stacked in a mag. The 200 XTP still has considerably more bullet in the case than a 180 XPT loaded to 1.26 (even more of those purchased for the same amount.)

My thought is to start with an OAL of 1.274, 13.3 gr AA#9 (hand weighed) and build a pressure series up in .2 gr increments.

I'm using new brass with Win. standard primers, a Wolff steel rod & 22lb spring.

Am I overlooking something? Is there a fault in my logic?

I'm in Iowa, and we have some dang thick whitetails here, I want to reliably shoot T&T a broadside monster's boiler room @ 50 yards.

TIA

X (the Centimeter Guy)
I run my 10mm loads as follows
10.2gr blue dot
wlp primers
180 gr xtp
col=1.267
glock 20c
moderate crimp(accuracy improved big time with a heavier crimp)
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Old 12-27-2010, 20:01   #7
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Having different makes of 10mm I hola my 200XTP's to 1.260" get good ignition and bullet retention!
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mmman View Post
Hi All,

I'm working up a deer load for an aftermarket 5.5" barrel with good case support in my M20SF. I've long loaded 10mm for my 610 for years with great results.

Given that loading manuals and on line specs show the max OAL for the .45ACP round at 1.275 and factory loaded Hornady +P 230 gr XTP's run around 1.35 and seem to work just fine in M21s, why could we not load 10mm longer for the Glock large frame magazine?

I've seated several dummy rounds of 200 gr. XTPs (I have a boatload of 'em I bought at the factory as cosmetic seconds for $6 a box muhahahahah) out to 1.275.

They seat fully in the chamber and after pressing in and still rotate freely so I know I'm not engraving yet. They hand cycle with out a problem and still have a bit of play fore & aft when stacked in a mag. The 200 XTP still has considerably more bullet in the case than a 180 XPT loaded to 1.26 (even more of those purchased for the same amount.)

My thought is to start with an OAL of 1.274, 13.3 gr AA#9 (hand weighed) and build a pressure series up in .2 gr increments.

I'm using new brass with Win. standard primers, a Wolff steel rod & 22lb spring.

Am I overlooking something? Is there a fault in my logic?

I'm in Iowa, and we have some dang thick whitetails here, I want to reliably shoot T&T a broadside monster's boiler room @ 50 yards.

TIA

X (the Centimeter Guy)
There's no reason at all why you can't experiment, but keep in mind what Robert said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert91922 View Post
I had to shorten down my 200gr HDY XTP rounds from 1,277 to 1.270-1.272 otherwise they did often stuck in Glock 10mm magazine. Too bad that hollows became squeezed a bit - hope that wild boars won't notice
Or should I fix squeezed hollows w. hand-drilling some lead out of it?
My suggestion is to take your starting load, and load up 15 of them. Then, completely fill a magazine with those 15 rounds.

Did they bind or jam?

If so, you need to go shorter.

If not, than take that magazine to the range and fire those 15 rounds. If they worked through the pistol, than you can load the rounds at least that long.

If you get binding/jamming, you'll need to go back to shorter OAL.


However, with all that said, keep in mind that more velocity equals more expansion, and more expansion means LESS penetration. So, by going for max velocity, you're actually reducing your chances of shooting through and through. The counter to this is upping the bullet's weight, but you're already there with 200s...
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeMineA10mm View Post
...

However, with all that said, keep in mind that more velocity equals more expansion, and more expansion means LESS penetration. So, by going for max velocity, you're actually reducing your chances of shooting through and through. The counter to this is upping the bullet's weight, but you're already there with 200s...
Thats a key point that I'd keep in mind, too.

While I've killed a couple bucks now with my 10mm using 200gr XTP's, I'm still not sure if a 200gr XTP at, sayyy 1100fps MV might be a better penetrator than the same bullet at 1300fps. I'm still really not sure. I WILL say that the 200gr load I used from Doubletap (1250+fps boxflap...prob 1155fps+ in reality) worked VERY, VERY well on a decent sized buck, however, at 25 yards it still didn't pass completely through on a broadside shot, however, he DID drop on the spot, though. The jury is still out. Could have been a fluke, too. The bullet might have hit a hard bone and stopped... but not after it did the "deed".

FWIW, I'll probably try and get my 200XTP's up there to 1250-1300 out of a 6" barrel and try them on a deer this coming season... If I
m not getting the penetration I like, I'll slowly back off on velocity until I find what works ideally.

I will definitely say that the full power 10mm is pretty lethal on the ol' whitetail here in Missouri.

Good luck and keep us posted!
-Nick
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Old 01-12-2011, 17:16   #10
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MMA10 & Nick- thanks

Your post made me check the velocity range for 200 gr XTPs- 1200 is top end. The 180 goes to 1450.

If the only goal was flatest shooting and T&T holes in big whitetails, would a screaming 180 be better or should I consider lead hard cast 220s?

Must admit, the 200 jobies ARE doing a great job on 'em-

I must not know enough to leave "good enough" alone.
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Old 01-12-2011, 22:33   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mmman View Post
Your post made me check the velocity range for 200 gr XTPs- 1200 is top end. The 180 goes to 1450.
I have no idea why hornady states that. I've shot Double Tap 180XTP and 200XTP side by side in the past and near as I can tell, the 200gr XTP is nothing but a longer heavier 180.

IMO, you can push the 200XTPs just as fast or faster than the 1450fps and still have great bullet integrity, especially on deer.


Good Shooting,
Craig
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Old 01-13-2011, 00:01   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10mmman View Post
Your post made me check the velocity range for 200 gr XTPs- 1200 is top end. The 180 goes to 1450.

If the only goal was flatest shooting and T&T holes in big whitetails, would a screaming 180 be better or should I consider lead hard cast 220s?

Must admit, the 200 jobies ARE doing a great job on 'em-

I must not know enough to leave "good enough" alone.
A lighter, faster bullet is going to expand even more, plus lack as much momentum (which is another contributing factor to penetration) as the heavier bullet, so I would say that is NOT the way to go.

If you are not getting through & through penetration on deer with your 200gr XTPs, try a different box. You might have gotten a box that had softer cores or thinner jackets or some combination that is causing them to penetrate less. On a classic heart-shot where only rib or possibly one shoulder bone is hit, a 200gr 10mm XTP should give you complete penetration, or nearly so.

My suggestion is that if you're stand hunting, put the first one up the pipe as a 200gr XTP, and follow that up with a 200gr hardcast RNFPs in the magazine. Check out this thread: http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/...d.php?t=102588

http://accuratemolds.com/img/bullets...=40-200B-D.png
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