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Old 07-30-2011, 20:21   #1
B.Reid
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Bear defense load

So how do you load your 10mm for bear defense. I am planning 200 grain FMJ bullets at full velocity. Not sure what powder though.
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Old 07-30-2011, 20:52   #2
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You know, a few years ago some guys from the lower 48 got the great idea to bring their very expensive and well trained dogs to Kodiak to hunt Brown Bears. Well, since Brown Bears can't climb trees, and aren't afraid of dogs, the bears just waited till the dogs ran up to them and killed the dogs and ate them.
You might do o.k. hunting a 200 pound bear in the lower 48 with your 10, but don't try it up here. Brown bears can top 1500 plus pounds. Just think about that for a few minutes before you respond with all the stats about your 10.
I jumped a Brownie across Cook Inlet a few years ago, hunting alone. As he lumbered off with an ass the size of a school bus, I looked at my Sako in .300 magnum with 220 grain bullets in it, and decided right there on the spot that I didn't have enough gun.
Better limit yourself to lower 48 black bears.
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Old 07-30-2011, 20:59   #3
hypnagogue
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Originally Posted by B.Reid View Post
So how do you load your 10mm for bear defense. I am planning 200 grain FMJ bullets at full velocity. Not sure what powder though.
The powder you are looking for is 800X. You should be able to safely work up to 1250 fps average with this powder in a stock Glock 20 or 1911, and up to 1300 with careful handloading and a fully supported barrel. As for bullets, a 200 WFNGC hard cast bullet will do more damage than an FMJ owing to the wider meplat. The 200 XTP will not penetrate as deeply, but is a balanced choice for general woods defense. I personally prefer the XTP.

Read the stickies. Work up slowly. Be careful. Have fun.

Oh, yeah. Ignore the folks who tell you that 10mm isn't enough for bear.
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Old 07-31-2011, 14:27   #4
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I agree with Hypnagogue. Go with 800-X and either 200gn WFNGC bullets or 200gn XTPs. But ONLY use the XTPs for smaller black bears. Anything over 300-400lb would definitely warrant the extra penetration of the WFNGC bullet. Also, like he said, the WFNGC bullets are more destructive than regular FMJ bullets, and will offer almost identical penetration (likely a little less, but it will be made up for in wound channel width).
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Old 07-31-2011, 19:01   #5
_The_Shadow
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The Brown Bears are big but they are not bullet proof! However you will have to be on top of the situation and place you shots very well to be most effective. I would advise to avoid any encounters totally, this would require controlling things like your scent, no food smells while you transverse any areas where bears are likely! That being said you will need to be very aware of your surroundings, as these freight trains can close up distance quickly! You will not have time to fumble around, you will need to pull your gun and stroke that thing like there is no tommorrow! Because there might not be!

You will want the longer barreled 10mm (atleast 5") to gain the most velocity from your loads in the colder climates. (shorter barrels can loose 100 fps)

The load you seek will need to deliver a 200 gr XTP or WNFPGC @ 1200 to 1240 fps. IMR 800X will probably be your best choice, LongShot next best. If there is a chance you will be at zero degrees or less stay away from Blue Dot. Also freezing temps are just that, guns can and do freeze, strikers/firing pins being most likely for non functioning situation! Care needs to be taken as not to oil up stuff to give issues!

Good luck and be safe!
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Old 07-31-2011, 20:18   #6
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So how do you load your 10mm for bear defense. I am planning 200 grain FMJ bullets at full velocity. Not sure what powder though.
I don't use a 10mm for bear defense. I use my teeth. Yes, I'm that bad arse.


Fer realz.

P.S. If you git bit by a bear, you probably deserve it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 13:35   #7
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I agree with Hypnagogue. Go with 800-X and either 200gn WFNGC bullets or 200gn XTPs. But ONLY use the XTPs for smaller black bears. Anything over 300-400lb would definitely warrant the extra penetration of the WFNGC bullet. Also, like he said, the WFNGC bullets are more destructive than regular FMJ bullets, and will offer almost identical penetration (likely a little less, but it will be made up for in wound channel width).
I totally agree with 21Carrier. We have just about every critter one could encounter in the lower 48 here in Idaho. I prefer the 200 gr WFNGC hardcast (I get them from Double Tap). They will deform less than an FMJ or XTP, and give the best chance to penetrate to vitals. In general, the WFNGCs seem to get a bit more velocity than jacketed bullets. Since they have so much mass in the nose, they are shorter so will have less pressure. They also seem to have less friction.

In the reloading section there is a water jug test that I posted. This projectile penetrated 7 water-filled gallon milk jugs before veering right and exiting the back corner of the 7th. Based upon the destruction of jugs 6 & 7, penetration through at least 8 seems likely. These are penetrators.

I am a bit of exception to what other guys are finding in that I get better results with the WFNGC with Accurate #9 than 800-X.

8.5 grains of 800-X (CCI 300 primer) 1.26" was pretty topped out as indicated by case expansion. 1150 fps.

13.8 grains of Accurate #9 (CCI 350 primer) 1.26" yields 1205 fps. Case expansion shows some room to grow. When Speer still manufactured a 200 gr FMJ, they listed a max charge of Accurate #9 at 14.0 gr. That load data provided the basis for my load workups.

These were shot with a gen 3 G20 modified with a Wolff 22# spring and steel guide rod. 90 degrees F.
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Old 08-01-2011, 14:11   #8
GTRhino24
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Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
I don't use a 10mm for bear defense. I use my teeth. Yes, I'm that bad arse.


Fer realz.

P.S. If you git bit by a bear, you probably deserve it.
I thought I was a bad arse using brass knucks. You sir, are my hero. I bought MMA training on DVD so I plan on submitting my next brown via triangle choke or maybe even a flying arm bar.
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Old 08-01-2011, 18:15   #9
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I use shiho nage when they attack in groups, and throw one into the others..
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:15   #10
jimhoff
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My load for the school bus-assed bear protection:
500
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