GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2010, 16:02   #1
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Hornady 10mm Brass

From what I understand, Starline Brass is a harder brass than Winchester Brass. And harder brass is supposedly better for full-power loads than softer brass, specifically for first time use when new.

Anybody know how the hardness of Hornady brass is compared to Starline or Winchester brass?


Craig
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2010, 18:08   #2
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
I wish I could help you out with this one because it is an interesting topic.
I tried finding some data with a couple of Google searches, but nothing relevant comes up.
Hopefully, somebody with this type knowledge will drop by.
I have heard a number of people say that Starline brass holds up well.
I haven't reloaded my Starline brass enough times to comment.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 00:16   #3
crsuribe
10mm Auto
 
crsuribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 1,733
This thread needs some Kegs.
__________________
R.I.P William Michael Willard from Swamp Fox Gun Works
R.I.P Chris Kyle -
What a damn shame you're gone!!

*I love USA*
crsuribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2010, 07:53   #4
Kegs
Ol 8 fingers ;)
 
Kegs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cold side of conus
Posts: 2,682
Thanks for your confidence, but the only brass I have ever reloaded has been Scharch.

Soon I will be relading some double tap nickel plated brass, which I will have to re-work up my loads since I expect these are going to change my formula a little (my suspicion is that they may not need as much powder).
__________________
"What's the down side to 10mm again? Oh, that's right, there isn't one."" Carrier21
Kegs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 00:28   #5
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaDoe View Post
I tried finding some data with a couple of Google searches, but nothing relevant comes up.
I feel your pain. I searched somewhat extensively, and also came up with nothing. Hornady manufactures it for the retail market, and someone out there must know something, so I popped the question here. I figured someone in this forum must have at least had some experience with it before, but so far, no. May just take a while before someone with the knowledge comes across my question. Or not.


Good Shooting,
Craig
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 00:37   #6
Atomic Punk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,645
could do a hardness test on them all. somebody may have what you need to properly do the RC hardness test. but you could build your own small drop tower and measure dent depths. you may not be able to figure out what the hardness of each is. but should be able to figure out where they all are in comparison.
Atomic Punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 02:14   #7
DWARREN123
Grumpy Old Guy
 
DWARREN123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CLARKSVILLE TN
Posts: 4,099
I don't know about hardness but they look the same as Starline when fired in my G20SF. Have to look at the headstamp to tell them apart.
The big difference for me is cost, the Hornady is more expensive.
__________________
Have a Nice Day
DWARREN123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 09:43   #8
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Punk View Post
could do a hardness test on them all. somebody may have what you need to properly do the RC hardness test. but you could build your own small drop tower and measure dent depths. you may not be able to figure out what the hardness of each is. but should be able to figure out where they all are in comparison.
Specifically on unfired cases, I think that's a perfectly good idea.
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 12:47   #9
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic Punk View Post
could do a hardness test on them all. somebody may have what you need to properly do the RC hardness test. but you could build your own small drop tower and measure dent depths. you may not be able to figure out what the hardness of each is. but should be able to figure out where they all are in comparison.
I wonder if there would also be a benefit from weighing them.

After my PPC shoot last night, someone left behind a big batch of factory 9mm brass and it felt noticably tinnier and lighter than my own brass. Of course, I picked it up anyhow ...
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2010, 18:17   #10
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaDoe View Post
I wonder if there would also be a benefit from weighing them.

After my PPC shoot last night, someone left behind a big batch of factory 9mm brass and it felt noticably tinnier and lighter than my own brass. Of course, I picked it up anyhow ...
Interesting that is was that easily noticeable. What brand is your brass, and what brand was it that you found?
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2010, 17:23   #11
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
Interesting that is was that easily noticeable. What brand is your brass, and what brand was it that you found?
I weighed the brass I found (including the primers) and it was actually heavier than some of the brass I fired. Go figure. My very subjective SWAG was wrong.
I was shooting the FC and CCI

PMC = 62 grains
S&B = 60.9 grains
FC = 59.2 grains
CCI = 64 grains

As to the amount of annealing and the quality of the brass, I think that gets back to your original question.

A Google search for "brass cartridge hardness" yielded promising results. Here is a sample from the first page:

Here is an article about annealing. It suggests a test which I believe will not accomplish what we are discussing here.
http://www.lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm

On this site, some "machinists" discuss it. I found post #11 informative.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-specs-205640/
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by MinervaDoe; 12-22-2010 at 18:37..
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 18:42   #12
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
But wait, there's more ....
So after reading the articles at the above two links, we feel like we have more information.
Quote:
Cartridge brass can vary from 67/33 to 72/28 Copper Zinc alloy, with most brass being "70/30"

The Germans set on the 67/33 mix very early on,( 1880s) for use in all types of Firearms; but during WW II, the 72/28 mix was used for some Aviation Ammunition, due to its better hardness factors.

But upon doing more research, we realize that brass "hardness" is determined by two things: the percentage of brass and zinc and annealing.

More reading for your weary eyes:
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.html

Quote:
Annealing brass makes it tougher and stronger, which gives you more life out of your handloaded cases.
Quote:
Annealing is nothing more than heat-treating a portion of the case and letting it cool. This process prevents the metal from being brittle.
Quote:
Annealing leaves the neck, the bullet-gripping portion of the case, soft enough to be cold-worked several times—by firing, then by resizing, again and again—but another annealing may become necessary later.
Here's a key point:
Quote:
Annealing softens the neck, to offset the cold-working and to retain the resilience of softer brass.
So, we have to ask if we are really looking for harder brass, when maybe brass which has been properly annealed may have longer life.

And finally, to go full circle (sort of) here is an article about a Hornady annealing kit.

http://blog.sinclairintl.com/2010/03...ealing-system/
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by MinervaDoe; 12-23-2010 at 18:46..
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 18:52   #13
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
I also found this article about Making Brass the Starline Way informative.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...910/index.html

Now that I feel so much better educated about brass, why does my head hurt?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 21:25   #14
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
MinervaDoe,

Thank You for sharing your research!

The only thing I'll add, based on one of your last statements on whether or not harder brass is the way to go, is that I recall Mike McNett mentioning some time ago that new harder brass was best for full power 10mm loads.

I guess there's still always give and take. Now I just wonder where Hornady's brass fits into the mix.


Merry Christmas,
Craig
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2010, 21:40   #15
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 6,983
Blog Entries: 5
You're welcome. Hopefully, someone will come up with some hardness measurements.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,058
293 Members
765 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42