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Old 01-04-2011, 01:31   #1
verdugo60
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US Marshals

Appreciate all you cops for the tough jobs you do with honesty and self sacrifice. Thanks.

My question is if any of you are US Marshals on here. I am in school, finishing up my bachelors and might have a chance to intern for the marshals office in my town. Sounds like a fun internship, and possible career, just curious if there are any of you that hang out here. Would love to hear the different paths you can take in the usms, and what you like best about your particular job. Thanks guys.

**This thread has changed directions a bit, see my last post on page 3**!

Last edited by verdugo60; 08-30-2011 at 11:48..
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:37   #2
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I know there are one or two around here. I've only ever met one marshal personally and he seemed quite happy with his career.

http://www.usmarshals.gov/careers/duties.html
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:31   #3
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I am assigned to a USMS task force and know just a little about their career paths. Most everyone I work with on the fugitive side is happy with their jobs. All however had to spend their time in the "Operations" side being what they call a "Court Monkey". Their words not mine. That consists on running the cell block, prisoner transport, sitting in court all day long etc.

There are other paths you can take once you are in a while and get your "Criminal Investigator" designation. I look at their home page outlines all the opportunities to work in areas like WitSec, SOG, TOG etc. Plenty of special assignments to work details on high threat trials and protective work. They are a very versatile group. Only downside is that their journey man level is GS-12 not GS-13 like most other Federal Agency 1811's. However even with that I don't see any of the guys going to transfer to other agencies. Most really like what they do.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:48   #4
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I am assigned to a USMS task force and know just a little about their career paths. Most everyone I work with on the fugitive side is happy with their jobs. All however had to spend their time in the "Operations" side being what they call a "Court Monkey". Their words not mine. That consists on running the cell block, prisoner transport, sitting in court all day long etc.

There are other paths you can take once you are in a while and get your "Criminal Investigator" designation. I look at their home page outlines all the opportunities to work in areas like WitSec, SOG, TOG etc. Plenty of special assignments to work details on high threat trials and protective work. They are a very versatile group. Only downside is that their journey man level is GS-12 not GS-13 like most other Federal Agency 1811's. However even with that I don't see any of the guys going to transfer to other agencies. Most really like what they do.
Huh, that's good to know. So you probably end up being a "court monkey" when starting, then with more experience can transfer to something you like more. Sounds fair. Fugitive task force is what they are most famous for, thanks to Mr. Tommy Lee Jones, but what about witness protection, security, etc? I understand protecting witnesses to and from court, but do they also run the witness protection program? As in, new identity, different part of the country?

Also curious about duty weapon, probably a Glock .40? I know that's standard issue for FBI. GS12 would probably be ok, if they are paying for my ammo.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:31   #5
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Not sure but you may even be able to go in as a 1801 Detention Enforcement Officer and work your way up to a 1811? The job is very competitive and the Federal Govt, is on a hiring freeze/crunch? Good Luck. Esox357.
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Old 01-04-2011, 13:59   #6
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I hope I'm not going out of bounds by posting here. I'm not LE or USMS, but at one time I was very interested in a career with USMS and did a lot of research. This is based on online and offline research, as well as advice from DUSMs. My info is a few years old, so maybe someone more current can chime in.

The USMS website is a good starting place. There's a lot of information there.

Your first few years on the job will be spent handling/transporting prisoners and securing court rooms. Depending on the size of the district you're in, there may be opportunities to assist with other tasks, like fugitive investigations. From what I understand, the smaller the district the better opportunities there are for getting involved in other tasks.

Career-wise, after you obtain your 1811 status you can go into supervisory or specialist positions. The specialists are Inspectors and are usually in one of 3 areas: Investigations (i.e. fugitives), Witness Security, and Judicial Security. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Inspectors are non-supervisory GS-13, but I could be mistaken. They're definitely at least GS-12.

USMS does operate the witness protection program.

Be careful with assignments to DC. DC Superior Court deputies essentially function like county sheriff's in DC, and perform tasks such as evictions and process service that other districts don't do. DC District Court is more in-line with other USMS districts. If you're offered DC, make sure you know which one you're being offered. I've heard it can be difficult to transfer out of DC Superior Court.

I believe you have to have at least 3 years in your current district if you want to transfer to a different district, and the transfer request may not be approved depending on the needs of the district.

Be in excellent shape. Ideally you want to be able to score at least in the Excellent category for the run, push-ups, and sit-ups portion of the fitness guidelines listed on their website. One piece of advice I got was to be very good with distance running. By the time you start the academy you should be able to run 5 miles in 45 minutes. I don't know if they still do it, but there's the Marshal Mile, usually run a day or two before graduation, that involves a 10-mile run with calisthenics mixed in. Physical training at the USMS academy is on par with Border Patrol and ATF in terms of intensity.

The CO-OP program is the only way in, right now, at least that I'm aware of. There was also the FCIP program, but I think that's on hold for now. They just had a wave of hiring a couple of years ago, so it may be a while before they start that up again. If you can get accepted into the CO-OP program, I believe that you are essentially guaranteed a slot in the training academy to become a DUSM, presuming good performance and successful completion of the CO-OP. In addition to the usual background screening, you will also be tested according to the fitness guidelines previously mentioned. I believe they recommend applying during your junior year if you want to do the program during your senior year. Also, while you may be guaranteed an academy slot after the CO-OP, there's no guarantee about the timing; it may be a while before you're able to attend, so keep that in mind.

The Detention Enforcement Officer/Aviation Enforcement Officer are other possible routes into the USMS, but they generally require at least 1 year of experience working in jails/prisons. Some places I've heard it's easier to move from DEO to DUSM, other places it's harder, so it's kind of a gamble with that approach, imo.

FYI, each district usually has a recruiter. You should be able to find their contact infomation on the USMS website. The recruiter would be your best source of information.

I hope this at least gives you some good starting points for your own research. And please research this yourself; as I said, the info I provided may not be currently accurate.

Good luck!
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Old 01-04-2011, 14:03   #7
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Yes they do run the Witness Protection program, but it is highly competitive to get one of those slots It requires a TS clearance and you gotta remember, in most cases you are dealing with crooks that have cut a deal in court. Not your everyday citizen.

. All the DUSM's I work with carry the Glock 22.

Don't forget the age cutoff of 37. You have to be hires by that time. Good luck. I have a blast working with them and have been exposed to some stuff that I never would have been exposed to before.
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Old 01-04-2011, 14:43   #8
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Super Sleauth, thanks for that detailed post, that was great. I don't think you were out of line at all, as you obviously put alot of time into researching the job yourself. Can I ask why you didn't end up trying for the USMS?

Thanks for the other posts everyone else! FYI, I am actually transferring to a school that does the CO-OP program, (not cause of that but it's a bonus) and will be about halfway through my Junior year there this summer or Fall. I did speak with the USMS recruiter here in Boise, and he was the one that told me about CSEP. Now I have to work on my grades, getting back in better shape and talk with the proffessor at my school who runs the CSEP program.

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Old 01-04-2011, 14:46   #9
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Yes they do run the Witness Protection program, but it is highly competitive to get one of those slots It requires a TS clearance and you gotta remember, in most cases you are dealing with crooks that have cut a deal in court. Not your everyday citizen.

. All the DUSM's I work with carry the Glock 22.

Don't forget the age cutoff of 37. You have to be hires by that time. Good luck. I have a blast working with them and have been exposed to some stuff that I never would have been exposed to before.
Thanks man, appreciate the info and the good luck! I thought the age cutoff was 36, but it may have changed. I'm 26, so I have some time, but the sooner the better obviously. Just curious, are you State or Local LEO? Kinda wondered about the taskforce. The website says the USMS's fill more warrants than any other LEO branch combined! That's cool.
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Old 01-04-2011, 14:49   #10
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I guess being on Witness Protection wouldn't be as cool if you have protect slimeball's that were the first to turn on their slimeball buddies. Protecting good people in that program would be neat though.
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Old 01-04-2011, 15:00   #11
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Super Sleauth, thanks for that detailed post, that was great. I don't think you were out of line at all, as you obviously put alot of time into researching the job yourself. Can I ask why you didn't end up trying for the USMS?
You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.

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Thanks for the other posts everyone else! FYI, I am actually transferring to a school that does the CO-OP program, (not cause of that but it's a bonus) and will be about halfway through my Junior year there this summer or Fall. I did speak with the USMS recruiter here in Boise, and he was the one that told me about CSEP. Now I have to work on my grades, getting back in better shape and talk with the proffessor at my school who runs the CSEP program.
Best of luck to you!
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Old 01-04-2011, 20:09   #12
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You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.



Best of luck to you!
It might make a difference. The cut off is typically 37.5. Six months might make a difference for you.

FWIW I understand that the marshals took longer to reach the journeyman level. I was told that they spent two years as a 7, two at a 9, two at an 11. YMMV.

IMO the USMS are, by far, the best physically conditioned students at fletc. The USMS instructors were pretty rough on the USMS students when I was at fletc.
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Old 01-04-2011, 21:31   #13
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You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.



Best of luck to you!
If you got on with a BOP facility as a staff member of any type, including officer before your cut off you would have a chance. If interested check with the BOP in their web site. They have areas that are in sore need of personnel meaning that they might try to get you in before your 37th birthday. After you are officially in you can do your time for a year and then go to another fed LE agency.
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Old 01-04-2011, 22:01   #14
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dlrow and Hack, thanks for the advice regarding the age limit. It's actually a minor point as I've decided to go a different route, career-wise, for other reasons. I really appreciate the help, though.

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Old 01-04-2011, 22:21   #15
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Protecting good people in that program would be neat though.
This would be rare.

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protect slimeball's that were the first to turn on their slimeball buddies.
This would be the norm. Just so you know.

If you are young enough and detached enough to be able to take a fed job and move all around the country... do it. I didn't have that mindset coming out of college (wish I had) and now 10 years later I'm in a different place with family and career that prevents me from really going anywhere. It's a little sad to think "what could have been", but not really as I'm happy with life.

Definitely go for the USMS internship if that's an open door. Regardless of whether or not you choose the agency for a career, I'm sure it will be an interesting experience and a nice line on the resume. A buddy of mine had that internship several years back and reflects positively on it. He is now working his LE career in a state agency, but has a long-term goal of someday being appointed as THE district U.S. Marshal here. It's a political appointment, like U.S. Attorneys, and is a gig that usually only lasts 4-8 years depending on how long your politician (that appointed you) stays in office.
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Old 01-04-2011, 23:11   #16
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We were recruited hardcore by various alphabet agencies while we all were in law school and there were 8 of us that worked for the USAO so we had direct contact with them the whole time.

ATF, DEA, FBI, USSS, USMS, and even DSS talked to us and tried to get us interested.

However, out of everybody, the USMS guys came out and told us straight up, "I love my agency, but don't do it. With your education, you would be so bored and fed up that you would hate it."

The starting scale is GS-5 back then which was a whopping $26k a year while ATF can start at GS-7 or GS-9, DEA started at GS-9, and FBI started at GS-10. That's a big difference.

He also said while SOG, WitSec, and fugitives are fun, most people get stuck with custody and court duty. Some get dignitary protection for federal judges who get threatened. He said it's the worse gig... driving vans full of perps or standing in court in a suit. Didn't make it sound very appealing.

They do have the coolest badges though.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:54   #17
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I thought USMS sounded pretty fun, but some hated that gig huh? It could be a good opportunity with the co-op program, as I could work during my senior year in the office, get GS4 and benefits during that time, and would have a job right out of college. I did hear that at fletc they make those guys go through a lot physically. Seems ironic they get in top shape to sit in court for three years.

To all you guys that have researched fed LE, what are some other good options? I could graduate with a BA in a year and a half in Sociology. I am considering spending an extra semester in school to retake a few classes to raise my gpa before applying for the co-op, so that would be four semesters.

I have looked at FBI, but I know its very competitive, and don't love the Hoover ideology of getting shipped across the country for ten years.

I'm fluent in Spanish, but the Border Patrol seems like its getting more and more dangerous, with higher-ups in admin backing up their agents less and less in cases of deadly force and other policies.

ATF? Don't love some of their missions on firearms, but could be a good alternative to usms if it doesn't work out.

I know there are other less obvious ones too like ICE, DEA, Postal inspectors. Not into CIA, or Secret Service.

Don't own a house, don't mind moving but would prefer to stay in the west for most of career. Wife is a dental hygenist, so she can work anywhere just has to get liscenced in each state.

If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?

Thanks for all the info and advice guys!
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:34   #18
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Seems ironic they get in top shape to sit in court for three years.
That's how all the fed agencies are... heck, that's how most of law enforcement is, with little to no physical upkeep requirements once you're hired.

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If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?
You may already realize this, but you are in a !GREAT! position, provided that your wife supports you moving wherever. Family support is key to emotional survival in LE. Nationwide mobility will also be key for advancement in the fed system, although USMS has been turning back toward keeping agents "local" to their home area. That could change again tho.

My advice is don't discriminate this early. If you want to go fed, then apply/test for everything. It's pretty easy these days with the online application process. Even the agencies that you say now "don't interest me" ... that may just be where you end up having a great career. Or it may just be good practice to go through a few interviews for practice. Almost all the fed interviews/scenarios are the same, or at least very similar. The more you go through the process, the better chance you'll have at making the cut when it matters.

These days, veterans returning from the Middle East are getting a LOT of fed jobs over college grads. A soldier may be trained as an intel analyst for instance, but once in the sandbox they end up doing a completely different job; however upon returning, they get credit from fed LEA's for doing the intel job for however long they were deployed. I support the military 110% but I do think that jobs anywhere should go to the person most qualified. Regardless, that's not always the case so you'll need to keep your options open to get the edge over others competing for the same jobs.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:09   #19
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Thanks Scottydl. I know I am lucky, because originally the wife didn't want to be a LE or Army wife at all. She actually likes that I would hang out in boring court! My career is important, but the reason for it is to support my family. I like that I could likely stay in the region with USMS. Also, with my degree I think I would start at GS7 after graduating, and with the co-op I would be at GS4 while IN school, which is nice. Also wouldn't have to compete with MIL as much with co-op. Once in the program, I go to fletc for sure after graduating unless I screw up big.

So, USMS is ideal for now, but if it doesn't work or I hate it, what would be other good places to start after college? I guess once I am in the Fed system, its much easier to transfer.
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Old 01-06-2011, 18:23   #20
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I work frequently with DUSM's and the Fugitive Task Force where I live. In the District I'm in, there are 4 DUSM's in that office and I have become big buds with one of them. They do it all, but court takes priority. But this district tries to get them on the street and they have have set up Task Force's in different surrounding counties utilizing local LE's to have the necessary manpower when called upon. This District while working their Federal warrants are actively involved with the local agencies assisting on their warrants. I can tell you, their hours are often brutal. But I have found different districts have different priorites. This district is all about working with Locals and warrants. Other districts may not be, but Court and transporting prisoners is their main duty. I understand in larger districts, places like Super court in DC and NYC, your doing court unless your lucky enough to have seniorty or be on a Warrant Squad but again, court comes first.
Good luck in your ventures. Im fortunate that I love my job after 16 years. I was once in the final hiring phase with the USMS, but a hiring freeze hit and I got too old (only way to phrase it LOL). But, looking back, don't know if my marriage and child schedule due to the spouses employment could have withstood the USMS demanding work schedule. But I've had the pleasure of working with DUSM's in three different states on several occasions and always found them top notch, methotical planners and always welcomed me along.
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Old 01-06-2011, 18:42   #21
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I've had some exposure to the USM task force out of Camden (one of my best friends was detailed there from our agency--he was on Manhunters--lol). They seem like a happy, squared away-- albeit crazy-- group.

Another friend of mine is a Postal Inspector. He seems to like his job, too. I was involved in a search warrant service with him a few weeks ago for kiddie pr0n.
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Old 01-06-2011, 19:51   #22
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To all you guys that have researched fed LE, what are some other good options? I could graduate with a BA in a year and a half in Sociology. I am considering spending an extra semester in school to retake a few classes to raise my gpa before applying for the co-op, so that would be four semesters.

If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?
If I were in your place, I would seriously consider looking for an OIG gig. A lot of federal departments/agencies have Offices of the Inspector General. They're tasked with investigating fraud, waste, and abuse within the agency. Most of them have 1811 criminal investigators. You could potentially get into some interesting areas of investigation, depending on the agency. For example, Agriculture OIG 1811s investigate food stamp fraud, and I believe some of them have been on USMS fugitive task forces. The Social Security Administration OIG gets involved in a lot identity theft cases; I think they may even have some 1811s on JTTFs, but I'm not sure.

I would look to see what OIG are in your area and see if you can talk to some of their investigators, or maybe a SAC/ASAC, and ask them about the job. Also look into doing an internship/co-op with them. The thing about most OIG agencies, from what I've heard, is that hiring is decentralized, with each SAC hiring for his/her offices. If you can get in with an internship/co-op, and show them how good a job you can do, it might help open the door to a full-time position. However, be aware that a lot of these agencies often prefer to hire someone who's already an 1811, though it's certainly not always the case. One more thing...OIG often have faster hiring tracks than the larger agencies. I've heard that 2-3 months from application to start date is not uncommon, where 1-2 years is fast for the larger agencies. I was in the process with USPIS for 3 years, and I knew of people that had been in the process for 5+ years.

I've also heard that most OIG generally work typical business hours (well, at least 50 hrs/wk for LEAP), with exceptions made for investigations, i.e., needing to execute a search warrant during early morning hours or needing to conduct surveillance operations. That might be important to you and your wife.

It's probably not the kind of work for someone who wants to kick down doors and arrest bad guys, and OIG tend to focus on more long-term investigations (think 1-2 years).

Here's a good resource: http://www.ignet.gov/

Again, this is just based on the litte bit of research I've done. You asked what I would do in your place, and this is what I would probably do as I prefer the more analytical, investigative aspects of the work. Whatever you choose to do, start with what interests you about working in LE, and try to find an agency that focuses on, or at least incorporates, those interests.

FYI, being fluent in Spanish will likely give you an edge, regardless of what agency you apply to.
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Old 01-06-2011, 22:00   #23
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Verdugo:

http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/...es/index.shtml

Look at those. There are plenty of agencies, some which are not LE but have LE positions, which may be suitable for employment for you. You are in a good position for getting yourself established now in FED LE.

My agency, with all of its warts and wrinkles is known as a good jumping off spot within FED LE. I'm with the BOP which you are aware of if you look at my information. I have known people who went to ICE, Air Marshals, Marshals, Border Patrol, U. S. Treasury, and of course FBI. Other people stay and move up within my agency, while others are satisfied to go up a few steps and stay put. There are all kinds of opportunities, but be aware that the most needed agencies are the ones who are least likely to give you a RIF letter when times get tough. Good hunting.
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Old 01-06-2011, 23:52   #24
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Wow Gents, thanks for all the great info. Supersleauth, OIG might be exactly the kind of thing that would work for me and my family. Thanks for that, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy being a door kicker, but my wife and future kids come before my delusions of bad@$$ grandeur. So, usms have a lot of crazy hours? Would that be just in certain offices or across the board? I kinda had the idea that they had a bit more normal hours, because of the court thing. That's something to think about. This internship could be a great way to learn how they operate.
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Old 01-07-2011, 00:52   #25
SuperSleuth
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Originally Posted by verdugo60 View Post
Wow Gents, thanks for all the great info. Supersleauth, OIG might be exactly the kind of thing that would work for me and my family. Thanks for that, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy being a door kicker, but my wife and future kids come before my delusions of bad@$$ grandeur. So, usms have a lot of crazy hours? Would that be just in certain offices or across the board? I kinda had the idea that they had a bit more normal hours, because of the court thing. That's something to think about. This internship could be a great way to learn how they operate.
This is just my understanding of it, not to mention the differences among the districts, but when you start you're an 0082 DUSM. While you're an 0082 you pretty much work court hours because otherwise they'd have to pay OT. Of course, if something is going on and they require additional manpower, such as during one of their fugitive sweeps or a high-profile trial, that could change. Once you're an 1811 (which I think now happens when you reach GS-9) then it's pretty much anything goes, depending on the needs of the USMS. And, as I said before, this information may not be current.

FWIW, you could always be a DUSM for a few years, get some experience and your 1811 status, then apply to an OIG.

As Hack said, there are several lesser-known federal LE agencies. I think I read somewhere that there are around 200 of them. Some of them are small, like the Library of Congress OIG, which I think has 2 1811s. EPA-CID (which I applied to multiple times without success) has about 200.

I know you said you weren't interested in the US Secret Service, but I believe they have an internship program, as well as the Postal Inspectors. I had a classmate once who did the USPIS internship and she said she actually got to assist in their investigations. I mentioned USSS because I've heard that a number of OIG agencies like to hire USSS 1811s. I've heard of several OIG 1811s who spent a few years working for the USSS before making the change. Just something to think about.

Just make sure to do your research, particularly if you're planning on talking to anyone in the agencies you're considering. You want them to know you're taking this seriously and at least know the basics of their agency (agency mission, types of cases worked, key leadership, etc.).

ETA: I believe the USMS co-op program is competitive, i.e., you have to apply and be accepted. It might be prudent to check around for other opportunities in case it doesn't happen. However, if you do get the opportunity, I would definitely take it. If you do well it can only help you.

Last edited by SuperSleuth; 01-07-2011 at 00:54..
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