GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-29-2010, 22:34   #51
Glocks&Ducs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 11,815


Quote:
Originally Posted by remat View Post
Rough crowd. In the U.S. that is considered the pistol. ...
No it isn't. In most cases, the lower receiver is what is considered the firearm for the purposes of transferability according to the ATF. That doesn't automatically make it the pistol.
Glocks&Ducs is offline  
Old 09-29-2010, 22:37   #52
kirgi08
Silver Membership
Watcher.
 
kirgi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Acme proving grounds.
Posts: 26,625
Blog Entries: 1


As far as I'm concerned,Coach and Butch are the Glock gurus around here.It dismays me that some would be so rude ta Coach for the info he went out of his way ta provide for those of us on GT.'08.
__________________
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

If you look like food,You will be eaten.

Rip Chad.You will be missed.
kirgi08 is offline  
Old 09-29-2010, 22:41   #53
Angry Fist
Lifetime Membership
The Original®
 
Angry Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,318
Moving parts and mechanical wear. Striker vs. breechface. Metal to metal contact can only last for so long... It's ineviteable, not impossible.
__________________
I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, s**t-kickers, Methodists, and the GTDS.
Angry Fist is offline  
Old 09-29-2010, 22:43   #54
chasbo00
Senior Member
 
chasbo00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Retired Sarge View Post
For 20 years I have shot Glocks extensively and dry fired W/O snap caps. No problems occurred. When talking to the techs at Glock, Inc on many occasions I always ask the dry firing/snap caps question and was always told to fire away-no snap caps needed. Today I was talking with Fred at Glock, Inc on another matter and again I asked the snap cap question. Fred stated that Glock, Inc now recommends snap caps be used for any dry firing beyound a few trigger pulls. Bill.
Makes one wonder what has changed doesn't it. I don't doubt the OP's assertion that using snap caps is now the official Glock recommendation. But I would like to know why the change -- is there something different about the Gen 4 models? Some other reason?
chasbo00 is offline  
Old 09-29-2010, 22:44   #55
Angry Fist
Lifetime Membership
The Original®
 
Angry Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 24,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocks&Ducs View Post
No it isn't. In most cases, the lower receiver is what is considered the firearm for the purposes of transferability according to the ATF. That doesn't automatically make it the pistol.
Yeah, see the difference in buying a slide vs. buying a frame... Slides don't need an FFL.
__________________
I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, s**t-kickers, Methodists, and the GTDS.
Angry Fist is offline  
Old 09-29-2010, 23:11   #56
glockgt
Senior Member
 
glockgt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 532
Thanks for the info Danny,

regards
__________________
Glock 23
Glock 19
Jericho 941 fb
H&K P30
Maverick 88
glockgt is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 00:10   #57
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
fastbolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Within the lightning (Northern CA)
Posts: 9,361
You know, there are probably any number of Glock armorers who don't post some things in the various internet firearms enthusiast forums, GT included, because of how some folks seem to either take such things personally, or just seem inclined to argue. (Myself included among those armorers who refrain from posting a number of things.)

Like most other Glock armorers, I've had occasion to call back and discuss some problems I've come across with the techs at Glock (GA), and I've been told any number of things which are contrary to what a lot of "hobbyists" & "fervent enthusiasts" sometimes like to espouse as if they were facts. Sometimes I'll contribute a new recommendation of fact I've learned, and sometimes I'll just pass because of the roar of bickering and argument. (Sometimes I'll PM someone and offer some insight or relate an experience regarding something they've asked, including an occasional new update received from Glock techs.)

Fortunately for me, there are a handful of more experienced Glock armorers who have the patience to wade among the static and try to help correct some of the info freely dispensed by the misinformed. I've only been a Glock armorer for 10 years and have more time with other platforms, so it's not like my presence or thoughts are likely missed.

For every thread in which I do post, there are at least a dozen thread topics in which I won't post (usually after I wrote a response and then decided to hell with it and didn't post it) because of the nature and tone of many posters (and even more in which I won't post more than once, if the thread is devolving).

It might be prudent and polite to listen to those experienced Glock armorers who take the time to try and pass along something which they think might be beneficial for Glock owners. It's not like it's benefiting them, you know.

As usual, just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore at your leisure.
__________________
Sub Club #9; .40 S&W Club #1953; S&W Club #3913
Retired LE - firearms instructor/armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 02:17   #58
English
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 5,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Retired Sarge View Post
For 20 years I have shot Glocks extensively and dry fired W/O snap caps. No problems occurred. When talking to the techs at Glock, Inc on many occasions I always ask the dry firing/snap caps question and was always told to fire away-no snap caps needed. Today I was talking with Fred at Glock, Inc on another matter and again I asked the snap cap question. Fred stated that Glock, Inc now recommends snap caps be used for any dry firing beyound a few trigger pulls. Bill.
Like limp wristing, the lack of use of snap caps is a convenient excuse for some otherwise unexplained problem. It might be that they hava actually discovered that the slight damage eventually caused by dry firing can eventually cause a problem or it might just be a change of personel where some critical individual has come into Glock with a 1911 background!

English
English is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 02:24   #59
English
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 5,273
DannyR,
You are a highly respected individual within the GT community. If only you had told us earlier that you use .45GAP for both competition and carry it might have stopped or reduced many of the anti .45GAP threads.

English
English is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 02:38   #60
Happy Hunting
Senior Member
 
Happy Hunting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,222
Quote:
...where some critical individual has come into Glock with a 1911 background!
even that is debated.
Happy Hunting is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 03:16   #61
platoonDaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasbo00 View Post

Competition shooters have been dry firing the hell out of Glocks for over a decade. I just find it odd that Glock has not issued a caution or recommendation until now about excessive dry firing.
One of the tech support guys working the phone lines at Glock is on medevil crusade against dry-firing. In his prior work experience he was in retail selling weapons and gained this bias opinion. I specifically asked him, why the latest Gen 4 manual doesn't state in in red. When pushed further he stated he has been after them to include that statement in the Armour & owners manual.

It is my personal opinion the OP ended up talking to this medevil crusader.

For those of you on the fence, call tech support:
770.432.1202

As previously stated the Gen 4 has MIM: extractor & firing pin. The impact of dry-firing with MIM could certainly damage them. When you clean your weapon, inspect them from time to time.









platoonDaddy is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 03:37   #62
AZson
Senior Member
 
AZson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Tucson
Posts: 3,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasbo00 View Post
At most competition pistol matches, shooters are required to "unload and show clear" at the end of stages. This entails removing the magazine; pulling the slide to the rear if it's not already at slide lock; physically showing that the chamber is empty to the range or safety officer, letting the slide go forward; and lastly, pulling the trigger (dry firing) the pistol before re-holstering. I don't think inserting a "snap-cap" in this process will be well received.

My personal dry fire practice drills would be cumbersome with "snap-caps."

I would also like to hear a technical explanation why dry fire with a Glock, other than for disassembly, should be with "snap-caps."
+1 on that
__________________
G17 G27 G29 G35 G38 NRA GSSF
NEED A GOOD GUN? See your local ATF (AKA F-troop) agent. He will get you one fast and furiously.
AZson is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 06:29   #63
Glockrunner
HOOYA DEEPSEA
 
Glockrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SC
Posts: 4,777
Send a message via Yahoo to Glockrunner
What is "MIM" in reference to in the Gen 4 23?
__________________
"As an OK State Trooper once told me, "Why shouldn't a "good" citizen be allowed to carry a gun, all the "bad" guys already do.""
Certified Glock Armorer
Glockrunner is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 06:57   #64
Thunderbolt56
Senior Member
 
Thunderbolt56's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Daytona Beach
Posts: 473
Dammitall! I knew I should have exercised that snap-cap stock option last week.

I bet it splits by this time next week.
__________________
G27 | G.S.S.F. |NRA | Florida Glockers
Certified Glock Armorer


My local range http://www.volusiacountygunandhuntclub.com/
Thunderbolt56 is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 07:32   #65
platoonDaddy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post

What is "MIM" in reference to in the Gen 4 23?
MIM is Metal Injection Molding and the two leading industries using MIM parts are the firearms & health industry.
http://www.gknsintermetals.com/technology/mim.htm

On another forum a VERY well respected Armour stated that all Gen 4's specifically the extractor and believe he said the firing pin are MIM.

Talking about MIM, my 870 extractor was MIM until I changed it out with a steel extractor from Brownells.
platoonDaddy is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 07:42   #66
COM165
Senior Member
 
COM165's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
You know, there are probably any number of Glock armorers who don't post some things in the various internet firearms enthusiast forums, GT included, because of how some folks seem to either take such things either personally, or just seem inclined to argue. (Myself included.)

Like most other Glock armorers, I've had occasion to call back and discuss some problems I've come across with the techs at Glock (GA), and I've been told any number of things which are contrary to what a lot of "hobbyists" & "fervent enthusiasts" sometimes like to espouse as if they were facts. Sometimes I'll contribute a new recommendation of fact I've learned, and sometimes I'll just pass because of the roar of bickering and argument. (Sometimes I'll PM someone and offer some insight relate an experience regarding something they've asked, including an occasional new update received from Glock techs.)

Fortunately for me, there are a handful of more experienced Glock armorers who have the patience to wade among the static and try to help correct some of the info freely dispensed by the misinformed. I've only been a Glock armorer for 10 years and have more time with other platforms, so it's not like my presence or thoughts are likely missed.

For every thread in which I do post, there are at least a dozen thread topics in which I won't post (usually after I wrote a response and then decided to hell with it and didn't post it) because of the nature and tone of many posters (and even more in which I won't post more than once, if the thread is devolving).

It might be prudent and polite to listen to those experienced Glock armorers who take the time to try and pass along something which they think might be beneficial for Glock owners. It's not like it's benefiting them, you know.

As usual, just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore at your leisure.
Excellent post, sir. I agree with you 100%.
__________________
Don't blame me. I voted for Romney!
COM165 is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 07:42   #67
SawgrassRaven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,949


Quote:
Originally Posted by fastbolt View Post
You know, there are probably any number of Glock armorers who don't post some things in the various internet firearms enthusiast forums, GT included, because of how some folks seem to either take such things either personally, or just seem inclined to argue. (Myself included.)

Like most other Glock armorers, I've had occasion to call back and discuss some problems I've come across with the techs at Glock (GA), and I've been told any number of things which are contrary to what a lot of "hobbyists" & "fervent enthusiasts" sometimes like to espouse as if they were facts. Sometimes I'll contribute a new recommendation of fact I've learned, and sometimes I'll just pass because of the roar of bickering and argument. (Sometimes I'll PM someone and offer some insight relate an experience regarding something they've asked, including an occasional new update received from Glock techs.)

Fortunately for me, there are a handful of more experienced Glock armorers who have the patience to wade among the static and try to help correct some of the info freely dispensed by the misinformed. I've only been a Glock armorer for 10 years and have more time with other platforms, so it's not like my presence or thoughts are likely missed.

For every thread in which I do post, there are at least a dozen thread topics in which I won't post (usually after I wrote a response and then decided to hell with it and didn't post it) because of the nature and tone of many posters (and even more in which I won't post more than once, if the thread is devolving).

It might be prudent and polite to listen to those experienced Glock armorers who take the time to try and pass along something which they think might be beneficial for Glock owners. It's not like it's benefiting them, you know.

As usual, just my thoughts. Feel free to ignore at your leisure.
^^^^^^^^^^^

This.

Fastbolt, clear out your inbox, I need to send you a PM!

SawgrassRaven is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 08:06   #68
MarkCO
CLM Number 245
Charter Lifetime Member
 
MarkCO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,791
Danny posted what the "official" recomendation is from Glock w.r.t. dry firing. That should be undebated as this same information has been, and is easy to confirm.

However, Danny did not say why, and neither has Glock. Until we know why, 90% of what has been posted on this thread is worthless bickering. If this can get back to a reasonable discussion instead of personal attacks, I'll leave it open.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
.40 S&W Club #1, 1911 Club #1067
NRA Life Member and Certified Instructor
www.CarbonArms.us
MarkCO is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 08:09   #69
coastal4974
Senior Member
 
coastal4974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockrunner View Post
What is "MIM" in reference to in the Gen 4 23?
Metal Injection Molding

oops, too late
__________________
The politicians added another $4.8 billion to our debt today.
coastal4974 is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 08:30   #70
tinman517
Senior Member
 
tinman517's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 757


I do not quite understand what all the debating is all about. This topic has been discussed across many different platforms. Everyone has a position on this topic. You either change your position or stay put. What is there to debate?

Personally, I will not risk any potential damage to any of my gun, if I have control over it. Others may decide otherwise, which is find.
__________________
G17, G19(3), G26, G23(2), G27, G21SF, G30SF
tinman517 is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 08:56   #71
Snarlingiron
Member
 
Snarlingiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 83
Quote:
(usually after I wrote a response and then decided to hell with it and didn't post it) because of the nature and tone of many posters (and even more in which I won't post more than once, if the thread is devolving).


Man, I am so happy to know I am not the only one that does this. While I am pretty new on this forum I have been on several others for a number of years. I am guessing that only about 25% of the posts that I write actually get posted. Usually, I review it just before hitting the "Submit Reply" button and go, "Nah, not worth the grief I'm gonna get." and hit the back button on the browser and move on to the next topic.

I have learned to post what I know or think is correct and let it go at that. Folks can take or leave it as they wish.

Good post, fastbolt. It is hard for me to understand why folks get their knickers in a twist over the fact that everyone on the planet doesn't see everything exactly the same way they do.
__________________
"Do not cry havoc where you should but hunt with modest warrant." William Shakespeare

Certifiied Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
Snarlingiron is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:21   #72
Duck of Death
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Big Sky Country
Posts: 4,455
Thanks for the info, I've never dry fired my Glocks, always figured metal crashing into metal is not good.

In fact I don't dry fire any gun, don't think it does much good. I already know how to pull a trigger, I want live fire to feel and manage recoil.
__________________
I am nobody, nobody's perfect--therefore, I am perfect.

I think, therefore I am, I think?
Duck of Death is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:26   #73
KAK
Senior Member
 
KAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Waco Texas
Posts: 178
If you break a striker buy a new one. I dry fire all the time, no problems here.
KAK is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:28   #74
KAK
Senior Member
 
KAK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Waco Texas
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck of Death View Post
Thanks for the info, I've never dry fired my Glocks, always figured metal crashing into metal is not good.

In fact I don't dry fire any gun, don't think it does much good. I already know how to pull a trigger, I want live fire to feel and manage recoil.
Metal crashes into metal every time you fire.
KAK is offline  
Old 09-30-2010, 09:53   #75
poodleplumber
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,022
My wife and I are taking a Spanish class at night at a local college. One of our classmates is a native Spanish speaker, raised in southern Texas my Mexican parents. She is taking the class as an easy A elective (her other classes are some difficult math classes). My wife and I have befriended her and soak up all the knowledge we can from this sweet, charming, generous lady. Two of our gringo classmates are willing to argue with her about pronunciation of words in her native tongue.

Thank you, Danny. Your knowledge and advice is welcomed by many.
poodleplumber is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:01.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 842
207 Members
635 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42