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Old 02-09-2010, 21:38   #26
Orange
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21, now dont make me come back in here and tell you again....
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Old 02-09-2010, 22:41   #27
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As a commercial ammunition manufacturer, I load 10's because they are not easy to get in my area, and there is a demand for practice ammo. I have to buy new brass, except for short runs for customers using their brass.

The Glock 20 is made to be a Ten, and that is that.

To get the most versatility out of the Big Ten, one must reload. I also recommend a barrel set up for cast bullets, for practice and training drills.

Max loads kill the brass. Look at the Redding push through die for the 40 to eliminate the bulge one gets with max loads.

I like the Ten's versatility, but bought a Glock 21. For personal protection and training chores, along with standard drills and practice, the 45 ACP suits me fine.

Don't try to re invent the wheel with extremely heavy loads. With the right powders, the Big Ten can trot right along with the 41 Magnum at acceptable pressures. I suggest bullets between 165 and 180 grains. In bear country, possibly a 200 gr non expanding bullet. There ARE better rounds for critters that can bite and eat you!

I do recommend a 20 lb spring with the BIG loads, and the stock spring with lighter training fodder.
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Old 02-09-2010, 22:43   #28
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I choose the 20, I like mine
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Old 02-09-2010, 22:49   #29
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Thanks again guys, I'm leaning towards the 20 for sure. Can anyone tell me if they started making G20sf RTF2s yet? If not, when? Again, thanks for the info.

DH
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Old 02-09-2010, 22:53   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggmc View Post
Interesting. I haven't bought any ammo since mid-last year (bought a couple cases then).

What are the specifics and when did they start ... or is this a taboo subject on GT (is DT a sponser)?
Generally speaking it's velocities of 100 to 200 FPS slower than what DT claims on their web site and on the ammo boxes themselves with almost every load I've tried. In the case of the 60-buck-a-box 10MM 155 grain Barnes XPB solid copper projectile, it was over 260 FPS slower than the 1400 FPS that DT claimed on the box.

The 147 grain 9x25 Dillon they claim at 1495 FPS, actually came in at about 1300 FPS instead.

I used to be a real DT fanboy until about 5 minutes after I bought my Chrono. Not anymore. They could have simply told the truth about the REAL velocities and I'd be a lot more likely to continue buying from them, but I just despise being lied to and tricked into buying something on false pretenses, so now I feel obligated to refuse them anymore of my business.
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Old 02-09-2010, 23:25   #31
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Both are excellent. Which number do you like better: 10 or 45?

That is the number stamped on the end of the box of ammo for your pistol; 10 mm or 45 ACP.

I vote for the Glock 21 in 45 ACP.
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Old 02-09-2010, 23:59   #32
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For the woods and hunting go with the 20.
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Old 02-10-2010, 00:05   #33
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Double tap tried their hand at 9mm ammo. I saw a wet pack test where it over penetrated (+20 inches) and never expanded :/
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Old 02-10-2010, 00:09   #34
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Sorry for the double post but I'm in the same situation. I have a 21 and 30 but I am always wanting to go bigger. Is it really not ok to drop in a 10mm barrel in the 30/21? That would be ideal. I really want a 29 for CC. I like my .45s though because they aren't an arm and a leg to shoot!

Should I maybe try to trade my 21/30 for 20/29 and invest in a couple of .45 barrels for plinking?
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Old 02-10-2010, 00:27   #35
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I'll chime in since my one and only handgun I own is a G20sf.

I've shot .45's before, but man do I love mine. Of course my opinion is biased, but I say go with the G20. Aside from being the most powerful Glock, it has a coolness factor. It turns heads (mine was confused for a Desert Eagle once because of how loud it is), and I like having something not many people have. I know quite a few guys with guns, and none of them currently have or ever had a 10mm.

I was unhappy with the ammo situation until I discovered Georgia Arms. Boxes of 50 FMJ at my local place cost me $33. I just purchased 500 rounds of FMJ from G.A. for $200, it shipped on Monday, and I will have it tomorrow. Can't complain about that. Prices are not as absurd as people make it seem.

I also bought 50 rounds of Double Tap 180gr JHP Bonded Defense, and I will most likely buy a box of 50 of the 135gr Noslers just for fun. Double Tap rounds are a little pricey at about $40 for the box of 50, but they are my home defense cartridges so I will shoot 20 rounds of each at the range and the last 30 will be to load up my two mags. They'll last me a while.

Edit: Check out this vid. The 135gr is a nasty round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdB8yo085Sw

To answer your other question, I don't think there is a G20 RTF2.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:51   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 LMB Z06 View Post
I'll chime in since my one and only handgun I own is a G20sf.

I've shot .45's before, but man do I love mine. Of course my opinion is biased, but I say go with the G20. Aside from being the most powerful Glock, it has a coolness factor. It turns heads (mine was confused for a Desert Eagle once because of how loud it is), and I like having something not many people have. I know quite a few guys with guns, and none of them currently have or ever had a 10mm.

I was unhappy with the ammo situation until I discovered Georgia Arms. Boxes of 50 FMJ at my local place cost me $33. I just purchased 500 rounds of FMJ from G.A. for $200, it shipped on Monday, and I will have it tomorrow. Can't complain about that. Prices are not as absurd as people make it seem.

I also bought 50 rounds of Double Tap 180gr JHP Bonded Defense, and I will most likely buy a box of 50 of the 135gr Noslers just for fun. Double Tap rounds are a little pricey at about $40 for the box of 50, but they are my home defense cartridges so I will shoot 20 rounds of each at the range and the last 30 will be to load up my two mags. They'll last me a while.

Edit: Check out this vid. The 135gr is a nasty round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdB8yo085Sw

To answer your other question, I don't think there is a G20 RTF2.
Are the G20 mags the same price as the other glock mags?
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggin215 View Post
Are the G20 mags the same price as the other glock mags?
I haven't purchased any extras yet so I don't have personal experience with prices; however, this site...

http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip...es/?return=%3f

...shows the same prices for all mags until you get up to the 11 round .40 and .357, and the 33 round 9mm.
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:53   #38
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Gotta go with the G20.
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Old 02-10-2010, 10:22   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lee View Post
Generally speaking it's velocities of 100 to 200 FPS slower than what DT claims on their web site and on the ammo boxes themselves with almost every load I've tried. In the case of the 60-buck-a-box 10MM 155 grain Barnes XPB solid copper projectile, it was over 260 FPS slower than the 1400 FPS that DT claimed on the box.

The 147 grain 9x25 Dillon they claim at 1495 FPS, actually came in at about 1300 FPS instead.

I used to be a real DT fanboy until about 5 minutes after I bought my Chrono. Not anymore. They could have simply told the truth about the REAL velocities and I'd be a lot more likely to continue buying from them, but I just despise being lied to and tricked into buying something on false pretenses, so now I feel obligated to refuse them anymore of my business.
Are you sure your chrono is on. Have you checked other company's loadings, is your barrel length the same as what they use to get their numbers.

Sorry to sound skeptical, but you never know mistakes happen in various forms.

OP, if you're not shooting bears 21 will suffice.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:06   #40
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That's because they put a Montana Gold HP bullet in and didn't tell anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggin215 View Post
Double tap tried their hand at 9mm ammo. I saw a wet pack test where it over penetrated (+20 inches) and never expanded :/
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Old 02-10-2010, 13:46   #41
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got g21 and 2 g20s, reload both 10 and 45 and host of others, got the 6" 10mm to fit the g21 slide and it shoots well w/o changing the extractor

ultimate goal is longslide for the 6" barrel and use it on the g 21 frame
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Old 02-10-2010, 13:48   #42
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I'm thinking about a 20SF myself, awesome power.
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Old 02-10-2010, 13:56   #43
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If you don't reload buy a GL 21 or GL 21 SF.
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Old 02-10-2010, 13:58   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD View Post
Are you sure your chrono is on. Have you checked other company's loadings, is your barrel length the same as what they use to get their numbers.

Sorry to sound skeptical, but you never know mistakes happen in various forms.
Yes, yes, and yes.

DT is one of 5 different brands I've shot and checked, and I've used the same chrono to check other calibers too - it seems to be working fine. And DT clearly states velocities from a G20, with no mention of barrel length, so I assume it's the stock barrel. My results have shown that you have to use the 6" (Glock brand) hunting barrel just to get DT ammo to go 100 to 200 FPS slower than they advertise. With the stock barrel, the velocities are even worse than that, so I don't think I'm tainting the results with improper barrel length.
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Old 02-10-2010, 14:18   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggin215 View Post
Sorry for the double post but I'm in the same situation. I have a 21 and 30 but I am always wanting to go bigger. Is it really not ok to drop in a 10mm barrel in the 30/21? That would be ideal. I really want a 29 for CC. I like my .45s though because they aren't an arm and a leg to shoot!

Should I maybe try to trade my 21/30 for 20/29 and invest in a couple of .45 barrels for plinking?
You seem to have it backwards. The G21 & G30 can be converted to 10MM, but the 10MM guns cannot be converted to .45 caliber because the breech face of the 10MM is too narrow to hold the wider .45 caliber shell.

10MM G21 conversion barrels are available at:

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/products.php?cat=43&pg=2
and
http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_p...ome.php?cat=17
and
http://www.stormlakebarrel.com/barrels

KKM and Storm Lake have them in both standard and 6" lengths, plus KKM has them for the G30, but only in the short length. Apparently Lone Wolf and Bar-Sto do not offer 10MM barrels for the G21 & 30.

It's well known that people have done this conversion, but since the G21 & 30 breech face & extractor are really not quite right for the smaller diameter 10MM cases, the only issue is whether the reliability is as good as a stock G21 shooting .45 ammo. It's certainly been shown to work, but I was hoping somebody who has done the conversion would jump in here to let us know exactly how well it works.

It's the exact same issue with converting .40 caliber guns to 9MM because you're changing the diameter of the ammo cases to a smaller size.

The G20 is the king of conversion versatility because 10MM, .40 caliber, .357 Sig, and 9x25MM Dillon all have the exact same outer dimensions at the rear end of the cases, so the breech, extractor and mags are all perfect for all four calibers.
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Old 02-10-2010, 15:27   #46
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10mm ammo is pretty hard to find and is expensive (even here in GA). Get the slim frame Glock 21.
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Old 02-10-2010, 15:41   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lee View Post
You seem to have it backwards. The G21 & G30 can be converted to 10MM, but the 10MM guns cannot be converted to .45 caliber because the breech face of the 10MM is too narrow to hold the wider .45 caliber shell.

10MM G21 conversion barrels are available at:

http://www.efkfiredragon.com/products.php?cat=43&pg=2
and
http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_p...ome.php?cat=17
and
http://www.stormlakebarrel.com/barrels

KKM and Storm Lake have them in both standard and 6" lengths, plus KKM has them for the G30, but only in the short length. Apparently Lone Wolf and Bar-Sto do not offer 10MM barrels for the G21 & 30.

It's well known that people have done this conversion, but since the G21 & 30 breech face & extractor are really not quite right for the smaller diameter 10MM cases, the only issue is whether the reliability is as good as a stock G21 shooting .45 ammo. It's certainly been shown to work, but I was hoping somebody who has done the conversion would jump in here to let us know exactly how well it works.

It's the exact same issue with converting .40 caliber guns to 9MM because you're changing the diameter of the ammo cases to a smaller size.

The G20 is the king of conversion versatility because 10MM, .40 caliber, .357 Sig, and 9x25MM Dillon all have the exact same outer dimensions at the rear end of the cases, so the breech, extractor and mags are all perfect for all four calibers.
OOOO.... GOOD!!! That means all i need to do is drop a few bucks on a 10mm barrel and some mags and I have a 10mm???

Another question.... Could I put a full size barrel in my G30? Like a 5inch 10mm barrel in my G30 and just have it stick out a little?
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:59   #48
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Keep in mind, the G21's breech face is bigger than the G20, so you run a risk of failure if using a G21 converted to 10mm in a defensive situation. Plus, the G20 slide is heavier than the G21, and thus it controls 10mm recoil better.
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:24   #49
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I have a G21SF with a 6" Lone Wolf slide and a 10mm conversion barrel.

I would not recommend this setup (yet) for a defensive gun, as it has not run 100% like my stock Glocks have. I have only put a couple of hundred rounds of 10mm through it at this point, and I'm working on developing some of my reloads with it. The chamber on the KKM is much tighter than a stock barrel which leads to possible misfeeds, especially when it's not cleaned.

I have also read trouble people have had with the conversion barrels failing to extract. I have rarely had problems with extraction, mine has only been the rounds hanging up while feeding into the chamber. Even then, it might only be once or twice in 100 rounds, but that's still too much for a Glock!

The SHOT ShowCase

That said, the 10mm is absolutely a kickass cartridge!
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:25   #50
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Get 21.
Get 20 conversion barrel.
Get a 20 mag.
Enjoy.
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