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Old 01-01-2011, 15:22   #41
m24swsbar
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There is no discussion that the .308 has more power than the .223 but remember what makes the .223 so deadly. The bending, tumbling and fragmentation properties of the .223 in a soft target. Don't let the size fool you. It will **** you up.
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Old 01-01-2011, 15:36   #42
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There is no discussion that the .308 has more power than the .223 but remember what makes the .223 so deadly. The bending, tumbling and fragmentation properties of the .223 in a soft target. Don't let the size fool you. It will **** you up.

The SHOT ShowCase
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Old 01-01-2011, 15:37   #43
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As a tool, unless you have specific application, you definitely don't need one. Find out where you plan to use it, then you can justify the need.

As a toy, yes, you definitely "need" one.
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Old 01-01-2011, 15:46   #44
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...then you can justify the need.



Who needs to justify anything? If you want one, get one.
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Old 01-01-2011, 15:48   #45
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The SHOT ShowCase
I'm sure there's a reason why my fellow brothers in arms and I are issued an m4/m16 standard, or a m249 which is also 5.56. Only time you really see a 7.62 is on an M240B mounted because no one carrys that heavy ass mg around. Please dont bring up anything with snipers because they arent all that common.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBqjAyhs56M that would do some decent damage don't you think?
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:00   #46
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I'm sure there's a reason why my fellow brothers in arms and I are issued an m4/m16 standard, or a m249 which is also 5.56. Only time you really see a 7.62 is on an M240B mounted because no one carrys that heavy ass mg around. Please dont bring up anything with snipers because they arent all that common.
Easy killer. I carried one too. The discussion is on MBR's. Just how much tumbling and killing do you think that 5.56 is gonna do @ 800 yds?

The reason the military went to the 5.56 had nothing to do with terminal ballistics. It is very common knowledge that 7.62 is a more terminal round from the muzzle to out yonder. It was a decision based on weight and supply logistics.
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:23   #47
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Easy killer. I carried one too. The discussion is on MBR's. Just how much tumbling and killing do you think that 5.56 is gonna do @ 800 yds?

The reason the military went to the 5.56 had nothing to do with terminal ballistics. It is very common knowledge that 7.62 is a more terminal round from the muzzle to out yonder. It was a decision based on weight and supply logistics.
The adoption of the 5.56 was also about the practical realities of firefights mostly taking place 300m and in from WW2 forward due to the rise of more fluid combined arms combat tactics. Only the peculiar terrain and elevations of Afghanistan have challenged the more recent conventional wisdom. In most of the built up areas of the CONUS one cannot even frequently encounter a 1000m firing range, let alone an unobstructed 800m-1k shot being commonly possible.

I'd side with those that say the 7.62x51 MBR has been made obsolete for all but a few specialized scenarios. I have a few, but they wouldn't make it out the door in a really general shooting emergency because they are too heavy, generally unhandy, and the ammo is too heavy on a per round basis for what very limited advantage is conferred by them over an AR in 5.56.

If I had to liquidate my long arms collection, mil-pattern semi-auto 7.62 caliber service rifles would be the first ones consigned. ARs and combat style pump shotguns would be last.
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:37   #48
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Who needs to justify anything? If you want one, get one.
The word "need" requires "justification."
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:37   #49
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digging in

my plan A is to dig in and defend in place, so I don't need to worry about weight and carry capacity, so I say go with the biggest bang for the buck, that is why i like the 7.62 54 cartridge..... if I did have to shoot and scoot I would grab the AK for that.... there is some value in having a small group of folks with a balance of weapons.... that's my plan anyway .... I am the patriarch of my extended family and I have already purchased a signif. number of the mosin nagants and sks's that I fortunately bought back when they were much cheaper, I figure with the AK's added in and the scatterguns and the scoped hunting rifles we have a decent arsenal to lay down fire and put some heat downrange....

we are trying to save up for more 9mm's and get more into the Glocks for ccw/cqb.... anyway, for defending in place the MBR's "old school" semantics do seem be preferred...imho
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:40   #50
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The MBR, or battle rifle topic is all over the web. From what I read, most folks say that a MBR has to be a .308. I'm assuming the MBR is supposed to be a SHTF gun.

Why would you need a MBR if you're readily equipped with an AR15 or AK47 if SHTF? Aren't this both more than capable if you had to fight?
I dont need one I know that much..im trying to think of a realistic reason id need one. I think having a FAL or a M14clone or a M1 would be cool..but just cool not as the title says "needed"

Plus I dont dwell on or believe a SHTF "situation" that id need a gun for is going to happen..so I dont dwell on that much.
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:41   #51
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The adoption of the 5.56 was also about the practical realities of firefights mostly taking place 300m and in from WW2 forward due to the rise of more fluid combined arms combat tactics. Only the peculiar terrain and elevations of Afghanistan have challenged the more recent conventional wisdom. In most of the built up areas of the CONUS one cannot even frequently encounter a 1000m firing range, let alone an unobstructed 800m-1k shot being commonly possible.

I'd side with those that say the 7.62x51 MBR has been made obsolete for all but a few specialized scenarios. I have a few, but they wouldn't make it out the door in a really general shooting emergency because they are too heavy, generally unhandy, and the ammo is too heavy on a per round basis for what very limited advantage is conferred by them over an AR in 5.56.

If I had to liquidate my long arms collection, mil-pattern semi-auto 7.62 caliber service rifles would be the first ones consigned. ARs and combat style pump shotguns would be last.
I agree. There are very few scenarios when an actual MBR is needed, yet when you do need one a 5.56 won't generally cut it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:49   #52
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The word "need" requires "justification."




Yeah, I get that, but you kinda missed my point.
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:54   #53
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65 bucks

arsenal refurbished mosin nagants are now available for 65 bucks, excellent bores with deep rifling, get enough for your platoon! you can never go wrong having plenty of milsurp MBR's..imho
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Old 01-01-2011, 16:57   #54
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arsenal refurbished mosin nagants are now available for 65 bucks, excellent bores with deep rifling, get enough for your platoon! you can never go wrong having plenty of milsurp MBR's..imho
Hey...I dont know much about these rifles..Question I have is how accurate are they??ive often thought of getting a Nagant,Enfield,1903(but too much $$ for my taste), or even one of those Swiss K31's as I hear they are one of the MOST accurate old rifles of that ilk.
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Old 01-01-2011, 17:23   #55
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Every american should own a battle rifle (.308) or a battle carbine (.223 or another intermediate cartridge). Just my opinion.
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Old 01-01-2011, 17:30   #56
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See I think you should, and other things too, definitely. I just don't think it's fair to say you have to have .308 or bigger etc. for it to be a MBR. I guess my 5.56 Bushmaster isn
t an MBR or BR or whatever. But it's what I would grab if I suddently needed to go to battle. So you know what, regardless of what ANY of yal'll motherf*@*@#'s say, its's an MBR to me, ESPECIALLY if bad guys are shooting .22LRs or 50 BMGs at me.
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Old 01-01-2011, 17:40   #57
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And as for "snipers using the 5.56".........
Do you consider the snipers on SEAL teams the real deal? If so, stop laughing.
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Old 01-01-2011, 18:16   #58
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Every american should own a battle rifle (.308) or a battle carbine (.223 or another intermediate cartridge). Just my opinion.
My opinion too. :-) I'd further specify an AR15 and a M1A. :-)
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Old 01-01-2011, 18:54   #59
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If my M4, AKM, or Mossberg 590A1 can't do what I might need to d as a civilian I am in deep manure. YMMV of course. But except for hunting how far of a shoot could a civilian be required to take and justify it? End of the World? The three at the top could take game and kill zombies just fine.
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Old 01-01-2011, 20:41   #60
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Split the difference and get a 6.8 SPC. Nuff said.
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