GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-02-2011, 05:38   #76
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 54,769


Quote:
Originally Posted by Restless28 View Post
The MBR, or battle rifle topic is all over the web. From what I read, most folks say that a MBR has to be a .308. I'm assuming the MBR is supposed to be a SHTF gun.

Why would you need a MBR if you're readily equipped with an AR15 or AK47 if SHTF? Aren't this both more than capable if you had to fight?
It's not a matter of need but a matter of want.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 05:54   #77
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
NRA Life Member
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: US
Posts: 31,921
Springfield M1 Garand works for me.........
faawrenchbndr is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 06:06   #78
j-glock22
Senior Member
 
j-glock22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,937
So if it really gets that bad, you gonna walk around toting one? For us average joes looking to save our families or whathaveyou.... don't know if it is going to be benificial
j-glock22 is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 06:24   #79
Fox
Varmit Control
 
Fox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,168
Blog Entries: 1
Squad Designated Marksmen still use the M-14 rifle.
Fox is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 06:30   #80
beemerphile
CLM Number 79
Charter Lifetime Member
 
beemerphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Danielsville, GA
Posts: 1,841
I have an SR-25 and a REPR that would argue with the assertion that 5.56 guns are more accurate. As far as "need", I don't "need" either one. I could make a better case of need for their 5.56 brothers the SR-15 and the M6A3. My 7.62's are fitted with longer range optics than my 5.56 guns and I don't conceive of any role for them that would have me humping them any distance. I have more of a "bug-in" than a "bug-out" SHTF plan. However, from inside or around La Casa de Beemerphile I'd probably opt for the bigger bang if I ever had to deter an advancing wall of Redcoats (or Homeboys).

So, yeah. I'd say there is an argument and a role for the "MBR" but I wouldn't try to argue a "need".
__________________
G17, G19, G20, G21, G22, G23, G26, G27. Sub Club #19
beemerphile is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 06:43   #81
american lockpicker
License to Il
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wood County, West Virginia
Posts: 8,221
If SHTF anyone thinking they are going to use a battle rifle won't last long...
american lockpicker is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 08:45   #82
ScrappyDoo
Tacticool brah!
 
ScrappyDoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,599
I think the gentleman who said something along the lines of "If you can afford it.. add it.." is dead on. My distinguished colleagues, let us not split hairs. If we can agree we would all like one of each caliber and then even more so , one of each type within the calibers, you just do , whatever you can do.

I finally got a Bushmaster in .223 and it's basically a present I gave myself, for surviving and thriving after my total disc replacement. Now other people bash it, whatever it's great for me. I love to "finish" it and then maybe add a larger caliber rifle. But when a go to .308, uhoh! Do I get a .308 Bolt Action scoped rifle? Or a Battle Rifle , like a M1A? Does an M1A fulfill both of those needs? What about adding a 7.62x39mm ? That counts as only an "assault" rifle on here, not as a Battle rifle? But I'd like one anyway... Who knows. Ideally I will have a safe full of options when I need to use them, like a bag full of golf clubs.

BUT,

You can't be MAD if you don't have every club option, just do what you can. And you know, if one or two of your clubs are particularly high quality or make you proud, then you're ahead of the game.
__________________

ScrappyDoo is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 08:54   #83
Shadyscott69
GT Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lexington, SC
Posts: 3,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by american lockpicker View Post
If SHTF anyone thinking they are going to use a battle rifle won't last long...

CRAP! I guess you should have told these guys...

The SHOT ShowCase
Shadyscott69 is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 09:27   #84
arm chair kommando
lolUmad?
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
the term MBR, is mostly a term used by shooters to differentiate between 7.62 caliber rifles, and 5.56 "assault" rifles.


The full power rifles have their place, but they're usually heavy, less accurate, and more expensive than their smaller brethren.

If you have a quality AR/AK, than no, you don't "need" a MBR. They'll do everything a 7.62 caliber rifle will do.

Last I checked my AK was a 7.62 caliber rifle....
arm chair kommando is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:05   #85
Smashy
Senior Member
 
Smashy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southwestern Oregon
Posts: 14,625
I don't understand what the fuss is about. If you want one, get one. It's just another option. And a fun one at that.
Smashy is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:10   #86
byf43
NRA Life Member
 
byf43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 13,308
Everyone should have the following:

M1 Garand
M14 platform (M14, M1A, etc.)
AR

Personally, I've never been drawn to the AK platform. It does nothing for me.
IF I ever need one, I'll remove it from the cold dead hands of my adversary.
__________________
G21 Gen2; G19 Gen3; G30SF; G23 Gen3; G26 Gen4. GLOCK Certified Armorer

"Live Free. Practice democracy. Make a difference. Love your family and your country." H.N.K. (My Dad) 09/02/1924 - 05/11/2012
byf43 is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:25   #87
Smashy
Senior Member
 
Smashy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southwestern Oregon
Posts: 14,625
Quote:
Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
Everyone should have the following:

M1 Garand
M14 platform (M14, M1A, etc.)
AR

Personally, I've never been drawn to the AK platform. It does nothing for me.
IF I ever need one, I'll remove it from the cold dead hands of my adversary.


Exact models you should have is really a matter of opinion. Some feel everyone should have an AK. I'm not an AK person either. I have a couple unissued Yugos, but I don't care for them and I'll probably sell them. I'm also not an AR person. There are other options that can fill the same roles.
Smashy is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:42   #88
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,144
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by arm chair kommando View Post
Last I checked my AK was a 7.62 caliber rifle....

Yeah, 7.62x39mm, not 7.62x51mm. MBR is usually used to reference the full power rifle rounds.

Kinda like saying the V-6 mustang is a real mustang.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:44   #89
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,144
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyscott69 View Post
CRAP! I guess you should have told these guys...

The SHOT ShowCase


Please tell me you intentionally linked to a picture where almost every soldier visible, is carrying a M1 carbine.





If you didn't thats hilarious.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:58   #90
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
NRA Life Member
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: US
Posts: 31,921
There is one with a M1903

The SHOT ShowCase
faawrenchbndr is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:00   #91
faawrenchbndr
CLM Number 281
NRA Life Member
 
faawrenchbndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: US
Posts: 31,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
Everyone should have the following:

M1 Garand
M14 platform (M14, M1A, etc.)
AR

Personally, I've never been drawn to the AK platform. It does nothing for me.
IF I ever need one, I'll remove it from the cold dead hands of my adversary.
I'll agree with most of this,......but I have no use for a M1A.
Had one, decided I like the .30'06 cartridge better than the 308.

I refused to own an AK for over 20 years,......finally got one.
Love it!
faawrenchbndr is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:31   #92
DEADEYEGUY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,287
The M-14's were being and are being used indeed. Because they needed something quick. The M-14 like the M1 C & D that were pressed into service are far from ideal. If they still had the wood stocks a special side mount optics set up had to be added to install optics. The wood stocks themselves are a problem with accuracy in severe climates. The wood will expand or shrink under extreme weather conditions. Also on the wood stocked model their is nowhere to put the various lasers, rangefinders, and so on.
The Navy helped this some by coming up with the EBR stock set up. But their are few armorers that know how to work on the M-14's now. A shortage of parts for them. And they are not designed to be a snipers weapon in the first place. And to the Designated Marksman or Sniper the M-14 sticks out like a sore thumb. I'm not knocking the M-14.
I've fired them and really like the feel of the weapon. They were just designed in a time when electronic devices to aid the shooter were not even known. Except for the ART scope very little in the way of electronics was known or thought of. The rifles that were picked for the conversion to M-21 configuration were worked over by skilled armorers. Same with the M-1's. The various AR-10's and other .308 in this configuration are superior to the M-14/M-1 in almost everyway. And as some have pointed out more M-1 carbines were produced than any other U.S. made weapon in W.W. II.
Everyone talks about the shortcomings of the M-1 carbine. But lots of folks carried them. And we are not just talking about clerks and cooks who they were made for. The answer to needing to take shots at both long ranges and short ranges was addressed by the Russians in Afghanistan by throwing in several of their Dragonov's (spelling is probably wrong) with their AK74's. Same thing we are doing now. I guess the question is how far do you think you would be shooting at something to need an MBR? And
if your shooting that far why not get one of the .300 or .338 Magnums that our NATO allies are switching over to and we are also beginning to?
If you want a long shot they are far suprior to the .308. Hell if you want one for fun get it. But the MBR (not a Sniper rifle or MBR modified to be one) has all but disappeared off the battlefront for some real solid reasons.
DEADEYEGUY is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:40   #93
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
If you have a quality AR/AK, than no, you don't "need" a MBR. They'll do everything a 7.62 caliber rifle will do.
Absolutely false - but I'm sure we'll all here how it is the truth and we just don't choose to accept it. does the "A" in AK stand for Arthur?

A .308 has more knock down knock out power than either of those. It puts an AR to shame at any range and whips an AK after a short distance.

It has more range than either of them. It puts an AK to shame period, and will smoke an AR as well.

If you need to deliver serious thump at a serious distance - neither an AR or an AK will touch it.
Aceman is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 11:57   #94
.45Super-Man
Senior Member
 
.45Super-Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smallville
Posts: 4,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Yeah, 7.62x39mm, not 7.62x51mm. MBR is usually used to reference the full power rifle rounds.

Kinda like saying the V-6 mustang is a real mustang.
Agreed. By that measure, the 5.56 would be a Geo Metro.
__________________
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"- Thomas Jefferson
.45Super-Man is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:21   #95
american lockpicker
License to Il
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wood County, West Virginia
Posts: 8,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadyscott69 View Post
CRAP! I guess you should have told these guys...

The SHOT ShowCase
I know a guy who was there and he lost a lot of friends that day... Anyways your better off with a high powered bolt action(think .300 or .338 or .303) firing a single well aimed shot from far away then moving along. To do anything else against professional troops or police or who ever will just get you killed these days.
american lockpicker is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:27   #96
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Realistically, how much range do you think you actually gain?
For the purposes of being effective, we can't really consider a univariate model. Univariate is a big word that means single variable/factor. You need to consider other issues such as wind, energy, drop, ballistic coefficient. I can go on but you obviously aren't able to consider more than one argument at a time.

I won't disagree that 500+ in SHTF for engagement seems excessive - but there are no rules, so set your own parameters.

Quote:
Since the 5.56 weapons are typically more accurate, and recoil less, as well as accept scopes better, I would challenge that while the 7.62 carries more energy, the 5.56 is probably going to be the more effective choice at most distances
.
- It is typically more accurate than most 'MBR" But as I said - accuracy is NOT everything at a certain point of distance. and past 500 is about it for 5.56
- recoil is really only relevant if lot's of follow up shots are important. Not a factor based on your own "accuracy" argument. Learn to shoot and recoil is able to be overcome.
- 5.56 accepts a scope better? Who TF told you this. You are an idiot or you can't think think straight. Did you mean to say an AR accepts a scope easier? You need to check out a DSA SA-58. ever see a PSOP go on a PSL? I guess not...Again - you obviously have NO idea what you are talking about. That is just wrong. Lay down some parameters or don't talk about things you don't understand.


Quote:
Especially considering the general lack of accuracy I see from most shooters,
Can't argue with that - finger on the trigger is USUALLY more important than the trigger itself. To a point...

Quote:
I don't think the majority could employ a 7.62 rifle well enough to enjoy the slight ballistic advantage is brings to the table.
- I think that is BS based on your own arguments. The first pull is the same regardless of the gun. I don't think most could use the AR as well. The bullets are too light (even the heavy ones) and the drop/drif too much - especially when combined with the lack of energy it deliveres once we are "out there". Far more shooters would do far better with a .308 at longer ranges.
- And your definition of slight ballistic advantage is really skewed. I suppose that's why SCARS are in use by Sepc Ops in 7.62? I suppose that's why Snipers are using 7.62? Again - you are using "weasel words" slight is TRIPLE the energy at 500 yds. That's like saying a Toyota Corolla has a slight speed advantage over an Indy car.

Quote:
I've yet to see someone shoot through a wall to get to the guy on the other side. Typically, if you can't see them, you can't hit them. Plus most things that stop 5.56, will stop 7.62.
- Again, a sound argument - if you can't see it don't shoot at it. If for no other reason it's a waste of ammo. But again, your ignorance is couched in a lot of mushy speech. There are a lot of car windows that 5.56 will deflect where at the same range a 7.62 will go right through it. same with car doors. Any redneck growing up near a junkyard can tell you that. But let's be clear: THERE aRE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WILL STOP 5.56 THAT WON'T STOP 7.62.


Quote:
The notable exception being some body armor that will stop 7.62 ball, will not stop some various flavors of 5.56.
The other notable exception being some plates that at the wrong distance WON'T stop 7.62 but will stop 5.56.

Quote:
But in all my years as a soldier,
And here is the issue I think. How old are you anyway? 25 I think. You have been a soldier for 7 years at most. I think you are just young and gung-ho and just really don't know any better.

There is a saying in Human resources: 20 years of experience doesn't equal a PhD. And a PhD doesn't equal 20 years of experience. And just because you haven't done the same exact job in the same exact doesn't mean you necessarily can't do this one. And just because you have done the same exact job doesn't mean your really know it.

Well guess what Sarge: I have been shooting Well longer than you have been ALIVE. And I have a PhD. So I have a hell of a lot of knowledge and experience compared you - while no military service. So the real question is does your ~ 7 years of whatever = my life. Based on what you say that I read here - not even close.When your mommy and daddy were humping to make you, I was helping pappy do custom reloads for competition on trap/target teams and hunting.

Just say it: All you know is the M4, and what they taught you in boot plus some combat (whatever that has been...which we don't know).

You will argue the superiority of the M4 into the ground because that's all you know. Hell - I bet you never shot a gun before the army.

I can't way to see your next expression of ignorance in this thread. So people really think you know something? I think you don't or you had better learn to type more precisely to express your thoughts.
Aceman is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:30   #97
Batesmotel
Senior Member
 
Batesmotel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 12,638
Buy one of everything then when you "need" it you will have it.
__________________
If it can't get you in trouble, it's not an adventure.
Batesmotel is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:39   #98
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
I think anytime you get shot at, you wish for better cover.
- I am sure that is absolutely true. see, I don't think you are an idiot about everything. Just some some things.

Quote:
However, I'm not arguing the AR/AK, or AR/AK/Whatever MBR vs another.
No but the OP really asked about opinions on if you need an MBR. And you clearly believe no - great. But you have managed to have diarrhea of the mouth and back up your opinion with a bunch of patently false opinions about 7.62x51. You exemplify my main problem with boards like this - inexperienced people reading crap and thinking it is true because GI Joe sid it and he's been in combat and he must know. Or worse...

Quote:
The problem with many 308 MBR's is they give up accuracy, for the increased energy of the cartridge.
Great - there is an opinion. Yet I don't see you really explaining just how much of this "accuracy" is given up to attain this power. Like I said - you can't think in two variables. Fine - AR's ALWAYS win at Camp Perry at 1000 or whatever. Just how much does a .308 lose by????

You entertain me son. Keep talking. I'm gonna print a bunch of these a do a dramatic reading at the gun club or the campfire or wherever.
Aceman is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:46   #99
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Yeah, 7.62x39mm, not 7.62x51mm. MBR is usually used to reference the full power rifle rounds.

Kinda like saying the V-6 mustang is a real mustang.
See - you got that one right...&.62 is an intermediate round. We are talking big boomers here. Honest to goodness full size big game rounds!

Nice Mustang analogy
Aceman is offline  
Old 01-02-2011, 12:49   #100
Aceman
Senior Member
 
Aceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Please tell me you intentionally linked to a picture where almost every soldier visible, is carrying a M1 carbine.





If you didn't thats hilarious.
Hey - .30 cal goodness. AK of the west! They knew what they were doing.
Aceman is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:25.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,427
435 Members
992 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42