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Old 01-21-2011, 23:58   #1
deerhuntr88
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Legal question about my LEO discount

I don't know where to find the law on this, so I figured maybe someone on here could help me.

Is it legal to buy a weapon using my law enforcement discount and "sell" or "give" it to my dad.

I don't want to break any laws, but I want to help my dad save some money on some guns he wants to buy. If it's against the law, I'm not doing it, but I just don't know the rules.

Any help?
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Old 01-22-2011, 00:16   #2
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How about you get him a membership to the Glock Sport Shooting Foundation and then buy his gun for him from them? Their price is close to the Homeland Security discount that LE get and it would be totally above board and no gray areas.

Their site
http://www.gssfonline.com/

Their purchase program details.

http://www.gssfonline.com/GSSF_Pisto...nformation.pdf

It'd be fun for him too!
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Old 01-22-2011, 00:59   #3
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Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:54   #4
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Sure, it's legal. The discount is a corporate thing and has no legal / criminal merit.

No way is it a straw purchase if it is a gift to your dad, assuming he is legally able to own a gun.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeefZah View Post
Sure, it's legal. The discount is a corporate thing and has no legal / criminal merit.

No way is it a straw purchase if it is a gift to your dad, assuming he is legally able to own a gun.
This is good legal advice.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you feel ok doing it.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:10   #6
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Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.
The definition of a straw purchase is a purcahse made on the behalf of someone that is disqualified from possesing a firearm.

It is not a straw purchase to buy a gun as a gift, and give it to a person that could legally purchase a gun themselves.

ETA----------------

If by LEO discount, you by a weapon that federal excise tax (FET) hasn't been applied to, then yes selling/giving that weapon bought as a duty to a non-leo would be a violation of tax laws.

Last edited by OLY-M4gery; 01-22-2011 at 05:37..
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:31   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerhuntr88 View Post
I don't know where to find the law on this, so I figured maybe someone on here could help me.

Is it legal to buy a weapon using my law enforcement discount and "sell" or "give" it to my dad.

I don't want to break any laws, but I want to help my dad save some money on some guns he wants to buy. If it's against the law, I'm not doing it, but I just don't know the rules.

Any help?
This is straight from the ATF questions and answers regarding the law on "straw purchases".

"Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above exam- ple, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form 4473. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw pur- chases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records".
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:57   #8
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Getting it as an officer purchase and directly thereafter gifting it to anyone, including relatives, near relatives, could look like a bad thing if someone was able to follow a trail so to speak. If not bought as an officer purchase, but say you found a good used gun on the market that was similar, (even though it was used by an officer before being sold on the used market), provided that it was not a gun that was bought new on officer purchase and immediately sold as used by the individual officer, would probably be OK. It would be best to check with state law concerning that, and with BATFE directly, and be sure to record any conversation with any of them for documentation.
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Last edited by Hack; 01-22-2011 at 07:58..
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:14   #9
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in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.

Here's the relevant excerpt from my local cop sho as well as another random one I pulled off the web:

Quote:
I hereby certify, under penalty of perjury, the above named law enforcement officer will use the requested firearm and/or large capacity ammunition feeding devices for use in performing official duties. In addition, the firearm and/or large capacity ammunition feeding devices are not being acquired for personal use or for purposes of resale.
SOURCE

Quote:
, [Name of Officer purchasing weapon] hereby certify under the penalty of perjury that I am a [Rank of Officer purchasing weapon] employed by [Agency Employing Officer] And that the Glock firearm described below that I am purchasing from The Gun and Bow Rack, LLC is for on or off duty use and is not being purchased for resale.

Glock [Model Number] Caliber [Caliber] Sight [Sight If Purchased] Mag Capacity [Mag Capacity] Serial Number [Will Be Assigned By Seller Leave Blank] Date Sold [Will Be Assigned]

<PHOTOCOPY OF POLICE ID IN SPACE BELOW>
SOURCE

I seem to remember reading about keeping the weapon for at least a year, but I'll have to look for a source on that later...
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:23   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malstorme View Post
in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.

Here's the relevant excerpt from my local cop sho as well as another random one I pulled off the web:



SOURCE



SOURCE

I seem to remember reading about keeping the weapon for at least a year, but I'll have to look for a source on that later...
I had heard something like this myself. Now, the shop that I go to allows us to come in and just show our credentials, and they then make a copy of said credentials and from there we purchase at the officer price.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:54   #11
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I had heard something like this myself. Now, the shop that I go to allows us to come in and just show our credentials, and they then make a copy of said credentials and from there we purchase at the officer price.
That is how it has always worked for me.

And thanks to the others for the info on a straw purchase. I myself will probably still refrain.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:35   #12
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The plan here is this:

My dad wants... let's say a .22 rifle. I can get it cheaper with my discount. He would pay me for it, and I would buy it with my discount then "give" or "sell" it to him. From what I gather there is no legal problem with this?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:36   #13
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anyone have any links to the law on this?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malstorme View Post
in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.
I dispute this.

This used to be the case, but anymore, and especially with Glock's LE / EMS / military / anyone with a pulse discount; I have bought several Glocks and only had to show creds. The purpose of the letter is to avoid having to do the background check (hence the caveat about no domestic violence convictions being included in the new wording of the letter - not reflected in your post). The letter has nothing to do with the price of the gun. Now granted, this is in Ohio, so it may be different in various states.

Since Ohio has instant backgrounds, there is no reason to get the letter - which incidentally, can be signed by any supervisor, not just the chief.

Last edited by MeefZah; 01-22-2011 at 11:51..
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:50   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerhuntr88 View Post
The plan here is this:

My dad wants... let's say a .22 rifle. I can get it cheaper with my discount. He would pay me for it, and I would buy it with my discount then "give" or "sell" it to him. From what I gather there is no legal problem with this?
No. It's fine.

Look, it is not a straw purchase as long as Daddy-O can own the gun legally, we have established that.

So now the only issue is the "morality" of getting a discount and then passing that on to your old man. Substitute "gun" for "coffee", if you get a free cup and give it to your dad, is that unethical? How about if you know someone at the car dealership and they give you an extra $1000 trade in on a car that you are actually buying for your dad? Unethical? Some here think so, I personally don't think so.
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Old 01-22-2011, 12:33   #16
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Glock offers two different options, first if the gun is for duty there are no taxes collected and you can not resell it without some stipulations and you must have an authorization letter. If it's bought under the program as an individual officer then taxes are collected and resale is not an issue.

All of this is detailed on the second sheet of the Glock Individual Officer Price Sheet. If you call Glock they will send it to you via email or regular postal mail.

Last edited by NC Bullseye; 01-22-2011 at 12:34..
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Old 01-22-2011, 13:11   #17
deerhuntr88
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Thanks for the help fellas...
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Old 01-22-2011, 14:32   #18
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From the law you are OK as long your father is not prohibited form purchasing a firearm.
The only thing I can think of is, that some company ask you to take an oath in writing that the firearm is for duty use only and that you don't sell it under a year.
Now I don't know how enforceable this is and IMHO it has no legal meaning.
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Old 01-22-2011, 15:05   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.
If he is buying it as a gift that is not a straw purchase (unless his dad is prohibited from possessing).
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Old 01-22-2011, 15:12   #20
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I dont know for sure if it is a law, but I believe a leo is a leo,, if you want to purchase a gun, for a family member, just the fact you are a leo, you should be entitled to, a benifit of you job. Now its one thing if your useing you status to buy for friend's and just anybody else, especially for profit, but buying for family members who can legally own a gun is another.
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