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Old 01-31-2011, 20:56   #1
Brent1202
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First AR, got optics questions

Just bought my first AR-15 on sat. M&P AR-15OR. Now let the modding begin!!! For you experienced guys, this is what I'm looking for...

I want a optic that I can do some plinking and range time. Probably out to 250-300 yards. I way also use for some home defense. Not wanting to go over $500. I like the Eotech's but I would assume I would need a magnifier for the longer range time? Primary arms has a Eotech XPS2 with their magnifier for a good price. Are their magnifiers any good? I know some also like the Aimpoints. Whats the advantages of one over the other?

Is there anything else I should be looking at? I don't want a rifle scope, not the look I want and this a gun I don't see myself doing a lot of hunting with.

Thanks for any help, Brent.
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Old 01-31-2011, 22:14   #2
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For home defense (inside your home and in its immediate area) you don't need nor should you use magnification. If you want a magnifier for just at the range, the primary arms are fine. I would start with a quality red dot and decide if you want a magnifier later. I prefer Aimpoints (particularly micros) to EOTechs but they each have their fans.
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Old 01-31-2011, 22:15   #3
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Do you want hits, or tiny groups?

Hits at 250-300 with an Aimpoint, no major issues. Tiny groups? Get a magnified scope. Magnifiers will help you see the target some, they won't help you shoot better.

An Aimpoint Comp ML2 or C3 for home defense in a LaRue LT129, and a low-cost riflescope, something like a Nikon Coyote 3X9 for the longer range in an LT104 can be interchanged with no loss of zero.
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Old 01-31-2011, 22:53   #4
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Look at the Millett 1-4x24, a great scope for $199 at MidwayUSA

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=186660
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Old 01-31-2011, 22:56   #5
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Aimpoint T-1 or H-1 for home defense, and good out to 100 yards +. You can always fet a magnifier/multiplier to mount behind it later if increasd magnification is a must. But you will be surprised what you can do with the T-1 or H-1. Absolutely dean nuts reliable and bomb proof with extremely long battery life and FAST!
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Old 01-31-2011, 23:08   #6
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Aimpoint battery life is 50,000 hours or about 5 years! Consider a 2moa dot for finer aiming at longer targets. However, 250-300 yds. is too far for no magnification on paper targets. Military uses the ACOG for longer ranges, but the cost is high.

Many like the EOTECH but battery life is much shorter. All three are in use in by US.

Your M&P AR looks like a more standard model and may only shoot 1.5-2.5 MOA. This translates to 4.5-7.5 inches mechanical accuracy at 300 yds. Add to that the shooters capabilities and you may want to stick to closer targets.

Don't forget the wind becomes much more significant at 300 yds. making the shooting even more challenging.

Not trying to discourage anyone from shooting at any range, but remember there are many factors to consider after you get past 150-200 yds.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:22   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
Do you want hits, or tiny groups?

Hits at 250-300 with an Aimpoint, no major issues. Tiny groups? Get a magnified scope. Magnifiers will help you see the target some, they won't help you shoot better.

An Aimpoint Comp ML2 or C3 for home defense in a LaRue LT129, and a low-cost riflescope, something like a Nikon Coyote 3X9 for the longer range in an LT104 can be interchanged with no loss of zero.

I'm not looking for a tack driver but would like tight groups. I'll take a look at those Aimpoints
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:28   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDPA_Shooter View Post
Aimpoint battery life is 50,000 hours or about 5 years! Consider a 2moa dot for finer aiming at longer targets. However, 250-300 yds. is too far for no magnification on paper targets. Military uses the ACOG for longer ranges, but the cost is high.

Many like the EOTECH but battery life is much shorter. All three are in use in by US.

Your M&P AR looks like a more standard model and may only shoot 1.5-2.5 MOA. This translates to 4.5-7.5 inches mechanical accuracy at 300 yds. Add to that the shooters capabilities and you may want to stick to closer targets.

Don't forget the wind becomes much more significant at 300 yds. making the shooting even more challenging.

Not trying to discourage anyone from shooting at any range, but remember there are many factors to consider after you get past 150-200 yds.

More than likely I'll be doing most of my shooting out to 150-200 max, but, I'd like to have the ability to do so. Kinda why I was learning towards the Eotech was I could use it for target, possible some IDPA down the road, maybe some close varmit(very little if any). I like the idea of maving a quick release magnifier for when I want to put some further down range. Does this sound like I'm heading in the right direction?
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:44   #9
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Aimpoint and EoTech each have magnifiers. The Aimpoint v. EoTech is like Ford v. Chevy or Coke v. Pepsi. For your average shooter it will really come down to preference and generally the reticle is what sways people one way or the other.

150-200 yards upper torso no problem, even head shot size hits can be pretty routine. 300 yards and upper torso sized hits is easily maintained, but I tend to want magnification at these ranges for observational purposes.

If I do up close work I generally do not like a tubular type of optic even on 1x mag.
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Old 02-01-2011, 13:14   #10
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I got to see one of the Eotech xps2 today at a local gun shop. I liked it. Very light. Liked being able to keep both eyes open with the sight. I'm going to check a couple other places to see if I can look threw a Aimpoint. The Eotech left a very good impression with me to be honest.
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Old 02-01-2011, 13:14   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
Aimpoint and EoTech each have magnifiers. The Aimpoint v. EoTech is like Ford v. Chevy or Coke v. Pepsi. For your average shooter it will really come down to preference and generally the reticle is what sways people one way or the other.
I cannot use an EO Tech any more, simply because the reticle drives me nuts. It has nothing to do with the shape (which I actually like) but the whole thing appears fuzzy due to my astigmatism. It is nowhere near as easy for my eyes as my Aimpoint. I have heard this complain from other shooters with astigmatism, as well, even if it is corrected with glasses or contacts.
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Old 02-01-2011, 13:45   #12
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Toss in the short battery life and "dies randomly including during firefights' method of operation, while i've had a few Eotechs, i only use Aimpoints whenever possible.
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Old 02-01-2011, 16:36   #13
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I cannot use an EO Tech any more, simply because the reticle drives me nuts. It has nothing to do with the shape (which I actually like) but the whole thing appears fuzzy due to my astigmatism. It is nowhere near as easy for my eyes as my Aimpoint. I have heard this complain from other shooters with astigmatism, as well, even if it is corrected with glasses or contacts.
Yep that is one of the reticle aspects that sway many shooters. Because the EoTech is a true holo sight as opposed to an LED, a fuzzy reticle or "blooming" can be a result in some shooters with eye issues.
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:06   #14
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Toss in the short battery life and "dies randomly including during firefights' method of operation
This has been covered to death. I have no qualms with the battery life on my EoTech. Batteries on tac lights die rather suddenly as well. Preventive Maintenance.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 02-01-2011 at 17:11..
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:11   #15
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As a counter-point, I love my Eotech. Aimpoints have some excellent attributes, no doubt, so check both out. As far as Eotechs go, one of the newest XPS models has side-mounted controls, excellent for mounting a magnifier behind.
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:23   #16
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Vortex StrikeFire with magnification(screws right on).

Leupold Mark AR 1x-4x

Last edited by ColdBlooded; 02-01-2011 at 17:24..
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:45   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent1202 View Post
Just bought my first AR-15 on sat. M&P AR-15OR. Now let the modding begin!!! For you experienced guys, this is what I'm looking for...

I want a optic that I can do some plinking and range time. Probably out to 250-300 yards. I way also use for some home defense. Not wanting to go over $500. I like the Eotech's but I would assume I would need a magnifier for the longer range time? Primary arms has a Eotech XPS2 with their magnifier for a good price. Are their magnifiers any good? I know some also like the Aimpoints. Whats the advantages of one over the other?

Is there anything else I should be looking at? I don't want a rifle scope, not the look I want and this a gun I don't see myself doing a lot of hunting with.

Thanks for any help, Brent.
I have no experience with this scope but its getting good reviews from people I know.
The Burris Tac 30 it comes in under your price point.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...owtopic=119196

I would not waste your money on an eotech. Frankly I believe the days of the full size red dot sight are limited. Compact red dots will do the same thing in a smaller package for those who want a short range rifle. For those who want to be able to shoot to the potential of their rifle are better served with one of the many good 1-4,5,6,8 power scopes coming out on the market.
My personal favorites is the Swarovski Z6i BRT 1-6 scope and the Trijicon TR24 1-4.
Pat
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Last edited by Alaskapopo; 02-01-2011 at 17:47..
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:46   #18
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I like the Eo reticle, just not the performance (after having used and sold them for a living).

As to white lights, i used a whitelight on a weapon daily for searching for 3 years and ONCE had a light fail due to battery. I drew my handheld and continued the mission.
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Old 02-01-2011, 17:50   #19
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Check this out if you want a Eo http://www.opticsplanet.net/l3-eotec...2-0-opmod.html
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Old 02-01-2011, 18:36   #20
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I will add this Brent.

Like a couple of the other fellas posting here I am not a young guy and I also remember the days prior to red dots and I have watched them evolve from the beginning. I am an old school Aimpoint guy. I also had a bad taste in my mouth over EoTechs from the early models and their associated issues.

About 4 years ago my unit equipped our 65 Colt M4A1's with the EoTech 553's (which wasn't my vote). I will admit that 5 of the EoTech's had issues with the battery connection which was found very early after purchase. We did do the battery fix on all 65 of the EoTech's. I carry this rifle on a nearly a daily basis as my primary weapon and literally beat the piss out of it as do the other guys in my unit. We have not had one issue in any of these EoTechs once we did the battery fix. So yes, a simple fix was necessary, but not one single other issue in almost 4 years in all 65 units seeing heavy use.

Another interesting story, is that a co worker was involved in an auto accident. I just got his rifle 2 weeks ago. His receiver extension tube was sheared off at the castle nut, his DD rail was cracked at the receiver end, his lower was tweaked and his barrel was bent. I thought for sure his EoTech 512 was toast. Damn if it didn't power right up.

I do a lot of factory work and custom builds or modifications. On many I have used the XPS versions and I haven't had one come back yet. No doubt the Aimpoint is more rugged. By the more simplistic electronics alone I would automatically assume it to be more durable, but yes even the housing is built like a tank. There is no argument IMO that the Aimpoint is more rugged. Even though I feel that the Aimpoint is more rugged, in my own experiences I am very comfortable in my own experiences in the duty worthiness of the newer EoTech models. As for battery life, if your going off to war and cannot get batteries easily I might opt for the Aimpoint. However you can easily get well over a year of use out of the EoTech even under heavy use. Some end users who have duty or military applications might set a higher priority on other things than just the reticle and that is good also.

So what is the moral? For your average weekend shooter, pick whichever reticle works best for you. Is it Coke, or is it Pepsi?

Edit - I should also add that even if you like a single dot only but still want the EoTech, you can get that also.

Last edited by surf; 02-01-2011 at 18:38..
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