Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2011, 17:16   #1
macatex
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
Poor accuracy?

I'm having a problem with a load I've been using. I have 180gr Berry's bullets with 8.2 grains of Power Pistol. The problem is the grouping of the bullets in my load is horrible. With factory ammo I can keep a 2" group at 7 yards fairly easily out of a G29. With my receipe I consistently get 6+" groups. Any thoughts on changes I can make that would help the accuracy of the bullets?
macatex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2011, 17:56   #2
MinervaDoe
Senior Member
 
MinervaDoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Way out in left field
Posts: 7,085
Blog Entries: 5
I looked through a half dozen of my manuals and none of them had data for PowerPistol in 10mm.
Then, I found a load for a 180 grain jacketed bullet in my Hornady manual. When I went to look at their 180 grain lead loads, they did not list Power Pistol. Maybe they felt that it was not a good powder for a lead load.
Since you are shooting plated bullets, you need to find a published load for a lead bullet and start with that. The soft plating comes closer to lead than jacketed material and I'd bet that your load is too hot.

I beleive that Alliant has a published Power Pistol 180 grain 10mm load, but again, it is for a jacketed bullet and inappropriate for plated bullets.
Strangely, they don't put their PowerPistol load online for 180 grain.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...30&bulletid=42
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by MinervaDoe; 02-03-2011 at 18:11..
MinervaDoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 13:13   #3
Taterhead
Counting Beans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 3,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by macatex View Post
I'm having a problem with a load I've been using. I have 180gr Berry's bullets with 8.2 grains of Power Pistol. The problem is the grouping of the bullets in my load is horrible. With factory ammo I can keep a 2" group at 7 yards fairly easily out of a G29. With my receipe I consistently get 6+" groups. Any thoughts on changes I can make that would help the accuracy of the bullets?
My guess is that if you stepped back to 25 or more yards you'd find keyholing. These projectiles wobble or tumble if not treated appropriately. A few things that helped me to resolve the issue are:

1) don't push them too fast. I keep mine@ 1100 fps or less.
2) seat them all the way out to 1.26"
3) use a generous bell when expanding the case mouth
4) easy on the crimp. Use just enough to iron out the case mouth expansion.
5) seat and crimp in separate steps

Doing all of the above has resolved the accuracy issues that I once had.

Last edited by Taterhead; 02-04-2011 at 13:15.. Reason: Typo
Taterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2011, 17:42   #4
macatex
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
Thanks guys. I have three fairly recent manuals with load data for Power Pistol and the 10mm. I'm using the starting loads listed so I shouldn't be pushing things too hard. I hope!

Taterhead: I've done all but #4 on your list. I may be crimping a bit too much. I had to pull a bullet while reloading the last time and it took several whacks of the pullet puller onto a concrete floor to get the bullet out. I'll work on that see what happens.

Last edited by macatex; 02-06-2011 at 17:46.. Reason: clarification
macatex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 00:23   #5
Taterhead
Counting Beans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 3,020
Keep in mind that if you are using load data for jacketed bullets you need to reduce charges by 10%.

Some Alliant data I have lists a max charge of 8.7 grains for a 180 gain jacketed bullet. That would imply a max of 7.8 grains for the plated bullet. The listed velocity is 1240. I don't know how that would translate to a plated bullet from a shorter barrel, but you may be pushing them a bit.

Hornady lists a max charge of 8.4 grains. Again, adjusting for plated bullets digests a max charge of 7.6 grains.

I'd be inclined to reduce to about 7 grains and work up until you find a charge that runs a little better.

Last edited by Taterhead; 02-07-2011 at 00:24..
Taterhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2011, 08:47   #6
lunker
Senior Member
 
lunker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 279
I only use Berry's for plinking loads and in 45ACP. They shouldn't be run too fast. It is pretty easy to pierce the plating with an incorrect crimp. If that happens, your accuracy is bound to be off.
__________________
Glocks don't kill tanks. 1911's Kill Tanks

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
lunker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 16:53   #7
RB98SS
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 42
I feel your pain. I've been struggling with a similar load, 8.0gns of Power Pistol and a Berry's 180HP. Can't even hit the 6" target at 30ft. Honest. Now I know I'm not a great shot but I can put every shot in the 6" target at that range with other loads. Something about that combo that just doesn't work in my stock 20sf.

I 'm leaning towards reserving PP for 357sig and not using it for the 10.
RB98SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 18:07   #8
texas 48
Gold Membership
Citizen
 
texas 48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by RB98SS View Post
I feel your pain. I've been struggling with a similar load, 8.0gns of Power Pistol and a Berry's 180HP. Can't even hit the 6" target at 30ft. Honest. Now I know I'm not a great shot but I can put every shot in the 6" target at that range with other loads. Something about that combo that just doesn't work in my stock 20sf.

I 'm leaning towards reserving PP for 357sig and not using it for the 10.
I have get results with PP with 165 155 and 135 gr Bullets. With 165 gr Golden Sabers using 10.0 gr got 1395ft/sec 11.5 SD 715ft/lbs energy. Good accuracy. May not be a good combo for 180 gr bullets.
__________________
THE HYPNOTIZED NEVER LIE
NRA Member
TSRA Member.
texas 48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 18:49   #9
RB98SS
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas 48 View Post
I have get results with PP with 165 155 and 135 gr Bullets. With 165 gr Golden Sabers using 10.0 gr got 1395ft/sec 11.5 SD 715ft/lbs energy. Good accuracy. May not be a good combo for 180 gr bullets.
Interesting. I have a bunch of Hornady 155's that I have not loaded at all yet but may have to give PP another try with them. Care to share your 155 load?
RB98SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 19:01   #10
texas 48
Gold Membership
Citizen
 
texas 48's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Antonio, TEXAS
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by RB98SS View Post
Interesting. I have a bunch of Hornady 155's that I have not loaded at all yet but may have to give PP another try with them. Care to share your 155 load?
G20sf 4.6 in OEM barrel
155gr XTP 1.255 COAL 10.2gr PP CCI350 1330ft/sec avg. SD 9.44 . very accurate load. I think I can get to 10.4 gr 10mm forum others have loaded 155gr up to 10.6gr . started at 10.0gr since it was max load for 165gr. Good luck work up slowly. I think the 165gr @ 10.0gr is a sweet spot in my 10mm's
__________________
THE HYPNOTIZED NEVER LIE
NRA Member
TSRA Member.
texas 48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 19:37   #11
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,329
Macatex, It has to be that the thinly plated bullets are being driven too fast, Glock barrels have a twist rate of 1:9.84" and spin up the bullets a little faster than the conventional barrels at 1:16". Some people have actually found slivers of plating piercing their targets while driving the plated bullets over 1100 fps. Using 8.0 grains of Power Pistol behind a 200XTP in my Glock 29 gives 1135 fps so yours are a tad to fast.

Therefore much care is needed to control velocity, loading practices need attention as not to shear the plating while seating(Like Taterhead said generous flair), and taper crimps with a lighter touch as not to cut the plating. Get that under control and you should see much better groups.

You may want to try about 7.6 grains of Power Pistol with standard Large Pistol primers and your accuracy should be right on. Your velocity should be in the neighborhood of 1090-1100 fps.

Good luck!
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2011, 20:02   #12
kfox
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaDoe View Post
Then, I found a load for a 180 grain jacketed bullet in my Hornady manual. When I went to look at their 180 grain lead loads, they did not list Power Pistol. Maybe they felt that it was not a good powder for a lead load.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...30&bulletid=42
When I was asking Alliant about 180 grain LFP bullets this is their printed response....
With Power Pistol, I suggest from 7.4 to 7.9 grs

With Unique, I suggest from 6 to 6.5 grs.

Hope this is some help to the OP. If you can't find the information you need ask the powder company they probably do have it..
kfox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 10:06   #13
nickE10mm
F.S.F.O.S.
 
nickE10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 4,349
Send a message via AIM to nickE10mm Send a message via MSN to nickE10mm Send a message via Yahoo to nickE10mm
Just saw this thread ...

I load a 180gr Berry's plated HP to about 1050fps with AA7. 8.x gr of PP sounds like a bit too hot.

Even with my AA7 Berry's load, I don't get match accuracy... I can shoot about 3" 25y groups at BEST with Berry's.... but can regularly shoot 1.0-1.5" 25y group with a nice XTP load... YMMV, but this has been my experience.

Plated bullets just aren't as accurate as jacketed or lead bullets, in my experience. Good for random, cheap target practice but nothing serious.
__________________
10 Ring #1033 - Longslide #1045 - 10mm Loader #1066

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Why do I carry a 10mm?
“Because a 9mm only kills your body… the 10mm kills your soul.”
nickE10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2011, 14:53   #14
Taterhead
Counting Beans
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 3,020
A really precise load for 180 grain Berry's has been with 8.9 to 9.3 grains of Blue Dot. That is running at about 1025 to 1050 fps. I can get connected bullet strikes at 15 yards. Things open a bit with other powders and faster velocities. Standard primers. 1.26" COL. Crimp just enough to remove the flair.
Taterhead is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:15.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 902
255 Members
647 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31