[WoodenPlank]

Photo, it isn't so much a lack of wisdom as it is just needing to know the ins and outs specific to things like SBRs and SBSs. There is a lot of paperwork, wrangling, and headache involved in going the NFA route, and additional restrictions on when and where they can be used. Even in a gun-friendly state like Florida, Title 2 firearms are best kept to home defense (and that can be questionable) and range use only.

Since you mentioned you already had a Judge, what issues did you run into with it for fulfilling your needs? Obviously a .410/.45 Colt handgun isn't the best choice for shotgun duties, but backing that up with quality .45 Colt ammo can really help (ie: first round being loaded with bird shot for snakes, etc, and the remaining 4 loaded with .45 Coly JHP for larger threats). Maybe you can look at the new Rossi Circuit Judge, as well. Smaller and lighter weight than most full size shotguns, but the same ammo capabilities of the Judge. The rifled version, I imagine, would be VERY effective with .45 Colt ammo, and still decently useful with shot for smaller problems like snakes, raccoons, etc.
I am not sure of the overall quality of the Rossi (and have only seen one in person), but it might bear some research for your needs. Carrying it concealed would still be a no-no, I believe, but would save you a lot of headache by skipping the NFA process.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Photo, it isn't so much a lack of wisdom as it is just needing to know the ins and outs specific to things like SBRs and SBSs. There is a lot of paperwork, wrangling, and headache involved in going the NFA route, and additional restrictions on when and where they can be used. Even in a gun-friendly state like Florida, Title 2 firearms are best kept to home defense (and that can be questionable) and range use only.

Since you mentioned you already had a Judge, what issues did you run into with it for fulfilling your needs? Obviously a .410/.45 Colt handgun isn't the best choice for shotgun duties, but backing that up with quality .45 Colt ammo can really help (ie: first round being loaded with bird shot for snakes, etc, and the remaining 4 loaded with .45 Coly JHP for larger threats). Maybe you can look at the new Rossi Circuit Judge, as well. Smaller and lighter weight than most full size shotguns, but the same ammo capabilities of the Judge. The rifled version, I imagine, would be VERY effective with .45 Colt ammo, and still decently useful with shot for smaller problems like snakes, raccoons, etc.
I am not sure of the overall quality of the Rossi (and have only seen one in person), but it might bear some research for your needs. Carrying it concealed would still be a no-no, I believe, but would save you a lot of headache by skipping the NFA process.

The 2 1/2 inch .410 just doesn't contain enough shot to cover a target very effectively. My experience at the shooting range with Federal 7/16 oz #4 shot (personal defense) shells didn't produce a great pattern at close distance. I enjoy shooting the Judge, but it seems a bit under powered for a trail gun. My Judge shoots the .45 long Colt surprisingly well.

I understand someone is building a 28 ga handgun (Taurus?) and S&W may have a shot shell handgun in the works. I haven't seen the Rossi.

My best course of action may be to sign up for a couple of new knees or stay out of the woods.

Thanks WP.

[Fanner50]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

I am pretty sure that a concealed, non-handgun firearm in Florida - even with CWL - is a no-no. Depending on where you are going to be (private property vs state park vs state game lands, etc), I would suggest some serious research into the legalities of doing such before you find yourself in a very deep hole.

ETA: That, combined with (as David pointed out) your obvious newness to SBR/SBS paperwork and legalities, seems to indicate to me you need to stay on the easy side of the legality fence, or perhaps avoid this shotgun route all-together. While getting an SBR/SBS/AOW/etc in FL is very doable (depending on county), the legalities of carrying and/or using one can get murky fast - especially anywhere other than private property, with landowner permission.

In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

[MrMurphy]

Me, i'd rather have a 9mm and a couple spare mags over a short barrel 12ga with 3 rounds in the mag.

[Angry Fist]

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by MrMurphy

Me, i'd rather have a 9mm and a couple spare mags over a short barrel 12ga with 3 rounds in the mag.

I understand, and I've got the 9mm, .357, .40, .45. I've considered a handgun for the woods. I just think I'll be better served, especially if ill or injured, with a scatter gun. A gun in the outdoor environment, at my age, is for emergency, not for everyday CC circumstances. My chances for a serious threat in the woods or 'Glades are much greater than the average person carrying a handgun in the city where they live; that's my reality.

My security blanket is a 12 ga shotgun with a pocket full of extra shells. Just can't figure out a way to make it happen in Florida.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by Fanner50

In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

Based on your understanding of Florida law, would it be legal to CC a short barrel shotgun?

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Fanner50

In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....

Originally Posted by Florida GS 790.06

The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....



Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

My reading of the statute this afternoon leads me to the same conclusion as yours. Thanks for your posts to help me figure this out. I didn't think it was an issue here if effectively concealed.

I'll probably stick with my Judge loaded with shot shells for outings, and maybe supplement it with a G26 tucked away somewhere. The Taurus 28 ga revolver is interesting; wonder how it passes as a pistol instead of a SBS.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by PhotoFeller

My reading of the statute this afternoon leads me to the same conclusion as yours. Thanks for your posts to help me figure this out. I didn't think it was an issue here if effectively concealed.

I'll probably stick with my Judge loaded with shot shells for outings, and maybe supplement it with a G26 tucked away somewhere. The Taurus 28 ga revolver is interesting; wonder how it passes as a pistol instead of a SBS.

The original 28ga one they showed at SHOT was classified as either an AOW or a DD, I cannot remember which. Last I heard, Taurus was going to be restricting the bore down to .50, or slightly less, to get it back into the standard handgun classification.

To me, the Judge/G26 combo would be a good bet, especially if you had at least a couple chambers on the Judge loaded with .45 Colt. Maybe some form of hard-cast lead for better penetration against gators and such - I honestly do not know what is needed to be more effective against them. Plus, so long as you are packing handguns, there is no restriction on how MANY you can carry, so long as they are concealed.

On a relevant note, there is a bill in the Florida legislature that will make open carry legal in FL again, so long as you have a CWL. I am not sure if this will include long guns (I doubt it), but it could make life a little easier on you.

[05DodgeDakota]

Read this section of FL law, it might help you.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0790/Sec25.HTM

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by 05DodgeDakota

Read this section of FL law, it might help you.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0790/Sec25.HTM

Link broken. I think THIS is what you were going for. That's the 2005 version, but I don't think it has been changed or updated since then.

[05DodgeDakota]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Link broken. I think THIS is what you were going for. That's the 2005 version, but I don't think it has been changed or updated since then.

yes, thank you

[Fanner50]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....



Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by Fanner50

I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks, Fanner-

I hope to follow your example in future posts. I most admire 'gentlemen' in all areas of public interaction.

[jsdintexas]

I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by Fanner50

I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

The humility is appreciated here, as well.

Originally Posted by jsdintexas

I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

That being said, if you are truly in the middle of NOWHERE, I doubt it would be much of an issue. However, if you did run across some form of LEO, and they either misunderstood your intentions, or just had a chip on their shoulder, problems could definitely ensue. The same goes for wandering into a residential area that you didn't realize was there.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by jsdintexas

I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

I like the looks of the Cruiser, and the price is great. The rub is, I can't carry a shotgun open in Florida except during hunting season, and I can't carry a Cruiser concealed because the only thing legal for CC is a "handgun" (no CC of AOW or SBS or shotgun). Guess I'm just skewered!

[jsdintexas]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

Sorry, should have read more carefully - just thinking about OC in the woods and doing in that grizzly or whatever. With these considerations, maybe a 10mm would do.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

The humility is appreciated here, as well.



As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

That being said, if you are truly in the middle of NOWHERE, I doubt it would be much of an issue. However, if you did run across some form of LEO, and they either misunderstood your intentions, or just had a chip on their shoulder, problems could definitely ensue. The same goes for wandering into a residential area that you didn't realize was there.

You know, my old uncle Joe - the guy who introduced me to hunting with shotguns - used to drill into me that hunting and fishing seasons and all laws must be followed to the letter. That was a condition to borrowing his aged Volunteer 12ga single shot for hunting small game. Even though I might be ok carrying an AOW off the beaten path, I would be uncomfortable doing it.

Maybe the law will be changed some day to allow open carry of a shotgun any time outside of community boundaries. It doesn't seem any less reasonable than allowing unrestricted handgun open carry as is being considered in Florida. I don't think legislation under consideration at this time deals with use of a shotgun.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by PhotoFeller

You know, my old uncle Joe - the guy who introduced me to hunting with shotguns - used to drill into me that hunting and fishing seasons and all laws must be followed to the letter. That was a condition to borrowing his aged Volunteer 12ga single shot for hunting small game. Even though I might be ok carrying an AOW off the beaten path, I would be uncomfortable doing it.

Maybe the law will be changed some day to allow open carry of a shotgun any time outside of community boundaries. It doesn't seem any less reasonable than allowing unrestricted handgun open carry as is being considered in Florida. I don't think legislation under consideration at this time deals with use of a shotgun.

Have you tried contacting the local Fish and Wildlife Commission office? There may be some exemptions that I am not aware of for game lands that could let you carry a shotgun openly. It won't hurt anything to give them a ring.

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

Have you tried contacting the local Fish and Wildlife Commission office? There may be some exemptions that I am not aware of for game lands that could let you carry a shotgun openly. It won't hurt anything to give them a ring.

Why didn't I think of that? Calling about an exemption is a good idea, and my squeeky clean record might help. I'll start with the local sheriff for guidance and go from there. Thanks.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by PhotoFeller

Why didn't I think of that? Calling about an exemption is a good idea, and my squeeky clean record might help. I'll start with the local sheriff for guidance and go from there. Thanks.

I was thinking more along the lines of some statute I am not aware of that would let you legally carry out of hunting season for defensive/protection reasons, so long as you werent caught poaching/hunting out of season. It doesn't hurt to ask, either way.

If youre still SOL on the shotgun front, I would default to your earlier concept of carrying the Judge for small problems (ie: snakes, etc) and a good 9mm or larger handgun for bigger stuff. Is your Judge the newer 3" cylinder, or is it the older 2 3/4" one?

[WhiteCoyote]

If you want short....
....get a Serbu!

[PhotoFeller]

Originally Posted by WoodenPlank

I was thinking more along the lines of some statute I am not aware of that would let you legally carry out of hunting season for defensive/protection reasons, so long as you werent caught poaching/hunting out of season. It doesn't hurt to ask, either way.

If youre still SOL on the shotgun front, I would default to your earlier concept of carrying the Judge for small problems (ie: snakes, etc) and a good 9mm or larger handgun for bigger stuff. Is your Judge the newer 3" cylinder, or is it the older 2 3/4" one?

My Judge is the original, short cylinder version. I don't know if moving up to the 3" would make much of a difference with shot count. I'll inquire at the gun show this weekend.