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Old 03-04-2011, 08:39   #1
RickD
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Drug Dogs and "The Clever Hans Effect"

http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/2...f-a-police-dog

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Several studies and tests have shown that drug-sniffing dogs, scent hounds, and even explosive-detecting dogs are not nearly as accurate as they have been portrayed in court. A recent Chicago Tribune survey

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...acker-drug-dog

of traffic stops by suburban police departments from 2007 to 2009, for example, found that searches turned up contraband in just 44 percent of the cases where police dogs alerted to the presence of narcotics.
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The Economist's "Babbage" blog summarizes a recent study led by Lisa Lit, a neurologist (and former dog handler) at the University of California-Davis, that demonstrates the startling consequences of that confusion:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/babba...imal_behaviour

Quote:
The results? Dog/handler teams correctly completed a search with no alerts in just 21 of the 144 walk-throughs. The other 123 searches produced an astounding 225 alerts, every one of them false. Even more interesting, the search points designed to trick the handlers (marked by the red slips of paper) were about twice as likely to trigger false alerts as the search points designed to trick the dogs (by luring them with sausages).

This phenomenon is known as the "Clever Hans effect," after a horse that won fame in the early 1900s by stomping out the answers to simply arithmetic questions with his hoof. Hans was indeed clever, but he couldn't do math. Instead he was reading subtle, unintentional cues from the audience and his trainer, who would tense up as Hans began to click his hoof, then relax once Hans hit the answer.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:03   #2
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Our handlers don't know where the stuff is when they train the dogs. Someone else hides the dope or explosive in the training area. Been that way for years. Can't say what the training practices are in IL.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:19   #3
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Officer: "May I search your car?"
Driver: "No, sir. You may not."
Officer: "Why? If you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind a search. Fine, whatever. I'll get our drug-sniffing dog out here."
...
...
Officer: "Well lookyhere! Ol' Lucky sat down when he sniffed your back tire. That right there is probably cause!"
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:25   #4
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I worked a Narc dog for 4 1/2 years. It can happen depending on how you and the dog were trained.

I never knew where the training aid was hidden, yet my dog found it every time. Different handlers would hid different quantities. We proofed our dogs through numerous sniffs to ensure that we had accurate dogs and we always used real stuff not pseudo.

One such proof was to have another handler use my dog to conduct a sniff. The dog would alert the same no matter who the handler was.

Every single alert that I ever had from my dog turned up one of two things - either the dope, or an admission that there was dope there previously (residual odor) and I documented everything.
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Old 03-04-2011, 11:27   #5
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Oh look another Balko hit piece.

Cop Talk
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Old 03-04-2011, 12:39   #6
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I've never run a dog, but my experience has been the same as k9medic - either we find something, or we find evidence that something was there (packaging, admissions, etc).

The dog is not infalliable. Period. They are, however, very, very good. Keep in mind that the dog simply is not going to smell a single marijuana seed, or a little bag of meth stuffed inside of the car from outside of the car. The dog is going to smell the odor where people who were using the drug touched. Larger quantities? Yeah, they're probably going to get it.
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Old 03-04-2011, 14:47   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadbart View Post
Officer: "May I search your car?"
Driver: "No, sir. You may not."
Officer: "Why? If you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind a search. Fine, whatever. I'll get our drug-sniffing dog out here."
...
...
Officer: "Well lookyhere! Ol' Lucky sat down when he sniffed your back tire. That right there is probably cause!"
I like how you cut that scenario off right at the good part...
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Old 03-04-2011, 14:54   #8
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Cop Talk
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Old 03-04-2011, 14:56   #9
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I have a single purpose patrol dog and a single purpose narc dog. I can allow the narc dog into a building and he will take me to the drugs. I generally don't have to detail search with him because he is single purpose. Let a trainer or another officer hide your drugs so neither (me or dog) don't know whee the hide is. That stops your problems.
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Old 03-04-2011, 21:26   #10
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Interesting defense lawyer brochure:

http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Trai...e/DrugDogs.pdf

60 Minutes episode on drug dogs...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in591477.shtml

Quote:
They turned to the ACLU and Jane Gagne, an attorney in Albuquerque, agreed to take the case.

“Personally, I was offended by the concept of drug dogs coming inside of the classroom where the kids are forced to remain in their seats and sniffing the kids,” says Gagne. “And legally speaking, the Fourth Amendment of our constitution prohibits something like that, or should prohibit something like that.”

On top of that question of unreasonable search and seizure, she was also challenging the dog's reliability since she was given no documents about the dog’s training. “And so, we can only assume that none existed, which would explain the dog having had 72 or 73 false alerts within a year. The dog simply wasn't reliable,” says Gagne.
When the facts were presented to the court, the judge told both sides that he wanted them to settle. Gagne made an offer: “If you'll agree to never use drug dogs to sniff the students again, and pay most of our attorneys fees, then we'll drop the lawsuit.”

The school district accepted Gagne's terms and stopped using the drug dog altogether. But the question of whether it was legal to use the dog to sniff the students was left undecided.

Quote:
Falco's usage reports showed that in controlled tests he could be highly accurate -- correctly alerting more than 90 percent of the time. But in real life situations the results were starkly different.

“The court found that Falco was 35.5 percent accurate,” says Gaines. And a judge ruled that such a low success rate didn't give the police probable cause to make the search.
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Old 03-04-2011, 21:33   #11
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Little advice from a former K9 and someone that works in the Chicago area. When you see "the Chicago Tribune investigated..." stop reading. The Trib is a biased piece of liberal anti-police garbage. Hopefully they'll be bankrupt soon.
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Old 03-04-2011, 23:47   #12
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I like a good narc dog. I wish we had a couple here, but we have to borrow someone else and their dog. Nothing against them, it would just be more convenient to have our own.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:20   #13
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That Defense Brochure would not be news to any halfway well trained or versed K9 team. I can remember almost all those points being covered almost 10 years ago when I first went thru K9 Training during the first week. I also have a problem with the proof reading of the source material if they don't know it's Illinois not Illionois! Lol
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:58   #14
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The uninformed, or outright biased however, will rally around it.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 03-05-2011, 08:17   #15
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is there such a thing as a residual scent?

can you put some dope in a car for 30 minutes, take it out and 10 minutes later have a dog hit on the spot the dope was?
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:24   #16
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Yes there is such a thing as residual scent.


RickD is late to the party. Our newest hater had already posted this, but it got moved.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...1#post16960411
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

Last edited by TBO; 03-06-2011 at 20:23..
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:27   #17
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i know, i was being fisheysus....LOL
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:33   #18
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Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
is there such a thing as a residual scent?
Yes, as a matter of fact, God said "Oh NO!!! It'll take me forever to get that smell out of the fish!!!"

Randy

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Old 03-05-2011, 12:05   #19
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I hate it when the facts get in the way of a good liberal agenda.
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Old 03-05-2011, 12:17   #20
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The uninformed, or outright biased however, will rally around it.
The dopers are always looking for a ray of hope.
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