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Old 03-19-2011, 10:08   #1
Krimlin
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Bushmaster

This thread is not a pissing match, and to try and start one will be like "pissing into the wind" so if you're going to try, just click the back button.



Ok now that's done with.

I'm just wondering why Bushmaster has such a bad rep?

So far I've looked glanced back and it's always a civilian with tier 1 AR's at some superduper pro tacticool assault rifle training event, saying that every Bushmaster failed because the internal modular codder key backed out .00001" or something.

Then everyone with a Bushmaster replies. (Me for example) "Hey I've had my Bushmaster for 5 years and have 4k-5k rounds through it with 3 malfunctions (either ammo related or didn't clean it) plus I trust it enough to carry it on duty to save not only my life but everyone else's I'm protecting."




Now I am asking for honest opinions and/or facts on why "Bushmasters suck"
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:42   #2
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I do not get it either.

Bought my Bushy over two years ago, and have been extremely pleased with it. It shoots just as well as the Colt I bought over twenty years ago, plus has better casting of the upper receiver (no pits), more even finishing.

Great AR's in my opinion.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:47   #3
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Thanks for your input!
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:57   #4
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I've owned 2 Bushmasters and both had to have the windage cranked all
the way over to the left in order to zero at 100yds.

Over torqueing the barrel is a common problem with Bushmasters.

Other than that, both shoot flawlessly for thousands of rounds.
They are excellent rifles and well worth the money.

For comparison, to zero my BCM A4 all it needed was 3 clicks down.
Almost perfect out of the box.
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Old 03-19-2011, 10:58   #5
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Good points, thanks!
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:00   #6
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There are two different aspects to the comparisons of different AR manufacturers.

The first is quality control and customer service. Some companies have a higher rate of putting out lemons than others. In other words, just because you buy a Colt doesn't mean you won't have a problem, and just because you buy a Bushmaster doesn't mean you absolutely will. But the odds are in your favor if you buy the Colt, and Bushmaster seems to not be most customer friendly company either.

The second aspect of the comparisons is the materials used, the testing, and the features. Its up to the individual to decide if these are important to them or not, but the buyer should at least be informed. A few examples: Bushmaster does not MPI/HPT their bolts, they use AR15 BCG, not M16, their barrels are 1:9 twist, not 1:7, and there are many reports of their chambers not being true 5.56mm despite barrel stampings.

For me, since I can put together a rifle that meets or exceeds the milspec standards from a company that has great quality control and backs up their products for the same or only a little bit more cash, I see no need to purchase Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, etc.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:17   #7
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My thinking it all about dollars! I don't own a Bushy but I do own a DPMS -they get treated just like Bushy! I see alot of folks that spend $1500-3000 get all twisted when you tell them your $600 -900 Bushy or DPMS works and shoots just as good as there $3000 dollar rifle! If the Bushy works for you more power to you but just don't think those that buy those $3000 dollars rifles are ever going to stop putting you down! It's just like I get the same crap from the High dollar bolt guys when my $350 Savage out shoots them!
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:20   #8
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I understand what you are saying Gunnut, but you don't have to spend $3000 to have a comparably equipped top tier AR, I can easily put one together for $900 or less. What your intended use is factors in as well. If you will likely shoot a few hundred rounds a year, then maybe they are all the same. If you do carbine classes where you fire 1500 rds in a weekend, then that is another story.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:28   #9
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No bushmaster or dpms here, but I've had model 1 sales kits (about 6), DSA uppers, and colts. Now, I'm building a mega monolithic kit with noveske barrel. All about intended use.. I want mine to be super accurate and last a long time after a lot of rounds. My A2 however is not "top tier" but it's 20 years old and still accurate and reliable.
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:28   #10
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My Bushmaster runs great , no matter what ammo I feed it . My only issue was a mag that appeared to have bent feed lips . They sent me a new one , no problem .
It was zeroed out of the box . No adjustment was needed .
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:52   #11
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Thanks for the info djegators!

Thats the thing I've never had to deal with customer service with Bushmaster lol
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:59   #12
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I will say that now, If I were to see a used bushy for sale I wouldn't pay more than $550-600

I think if you have one, great. If you are looking to buy something, get BCM, Spike's, Sabre, Colt, etc
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:01   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
I've owned 2 Bushmasters and both had to have the windage cranked all
the way over to the left in order to zero at 100yds.

Over torqueing the barrel is a common problem with Bushmasters.

Other than that, both shoot flawlessly for thousands of rounds.
They are excellent rifles and well worth the money.

For comparison, to zero my BCM A4 all it needed was 3 clicks down.
Almost perfect out of the box.
All 3 of my Bushmasters were dead center accurate of the shelf. I took the carry handle off and added a Troy BUIS and a Red Dot on my latest and both required no adjustment. An LEO friend bought a Stag a couple of years ago that shot as your Bushy did, sight adjusted all the way left and still off the paper at 100yds. After a trip back to Stag it is still off by a few inches. Seems they all make lemons.
My only problem with Bushy is one that doesn't like hollow point ammo but a Pmag runs them just fine. And the carrier keys are definitely not properly staked anymore but that is a quick fix too. For the money a gave for my M4gery new, I can't complain if I had to do a couple of things to it myself but I do agree the quality control doesn't seem to be what it used to be.
If I were buying a new AR right now and my life depended on it I would go on and drop the coin on a Noveske. In fact I'm thinking about doing just that.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:10   #14
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I have to agree, I wouldn't buy another Bushmaster, mainly because I want and SBR Noveske, which I'll be having this year

But I think it's time to retire my Bushmaster to a plinker, maybe run it through a torture test to prove all the shinanigans to be wrong lol!
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:19   #15
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I just bought a ACR,Bushmaster was just bought by Rem.which im sure will only make Bushmaster and DPMS better.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:35   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimlin View Post
I'm just wondering why Bushmaster has such a bad rep?


Now I am asking for honest opinions and/or facts on why "Bushmasters suck"
Gas key not properly staked
Semi-auto BCG
Wrong barrel steel
1:9 twist
no M4 feedramps
no H buffer
castle nut not staked
commercial buffer tube
no "F" FSB
no parkerizing under FSB



Bushys probably work just fine, but the powers that be have decided that an AR-15 needs to have all these things, and cost at least $1,100, to be a "decent" rifle.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:46   #17
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Check out this thread.

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?...ght=bushmaster
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:48   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reswob View Post
Gas key not properly staked
Semi-auto BCG
Wrong barrel steel
1:9 twist
no M4 feedramps
no H buffer
castle nut not staked
commercial buffer tube
no "F" FSB
no parkerizing under FSB



Bushys probably work just fine, but the powers that be have decided that an AR-15 needs to have all these things, and cost at least $1,100, to be a "decent" rifle.
I agreed with your post until the last part. My BCM has all those things and came in under $1000.
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:53   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Black View Post
I agreed with your post until the last part. My BCM has all those things and came in under $1000.
Has BCM made it to "the chart"? I had to add the last part because the folks over at M4C seem to thumb their noses at reasonably priced AR-15s, even ones that conform to their list of required AR features (Spike's, CMMG).
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Old 03-19-2011, 12:58   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reswob View Post
Has BCM made it to "the chart"? I had to add the last part because the folks over at M4C seem to thumb their noses at reasonably priced AR-15s, even ones that conform to their list of required AR features (Spike's, CMMG).
They took the chart down, but last time I saw it BCM was pretty much as good as it gets on the chart. Pretty sure it met every category.
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Old 03-19-2011, 18:46   #21
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In a nutshell the problem is that they use lower quality parts, have sub standard testing, poor quality build techniques, poor quality control and horrible customer service yet charge a lot of money for the actual product. In other words you are getting far less for your money. As has been mentioned above, when you put all of those aspects together you stand a much higher chance of getting a lemon out of the box than with companies who build to a certain standard (Gov's TSP aka Military Specifications) that is widely understood as a proper recipe for success.
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Old 03-19-2011, 19:04   #22
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I use to carry a bushmaster at work now we have armalite. I also own 4 Rock River Arms that i built myself. I love any AR and my glocks.
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:16   #23
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The prices I've seen for AR type rifles are all in the same ball park. BM's go for around $800, S&W $800, BCM $800, Daniel Defense-Colts $1000, Noveske $1500-2500 (all ball park estimates). So you can get a rifle for the same price as the BM and have a rifle that you don't have to take apart and stake your gas key & castle nut like they should be doing from the factory.

As for why I don't like Busmasters..... The Bushmaster rifles failed our departmets testing for AR15 patrol rifles. I've personally seen two BM rifles fail during high round count courses. It also seems like the Bushmaster guns seem to need to be clean while others keep running dirty as can be as long as they are kept wet thats just my personal opinion based on what I've seen with no scientific evidence to back it up so it could just be my bias.

If you're AR is just a range plinker and you don't put the rifle though high round count torture a Bushmaster is a perfectly okay rifle. On the other hand, if it's something you're going to run hard or bet your life on I wouldn't go with a BM unless you are going to take it apart strip everything down, replace all the parts with in spec parts, properly stake the needed parts and tourque everything to spec. I don't know why you'd wast the time and extra money to do that that if you can spend an extra $200 on another brand like Colt where all that was done at the factory.
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:31   #24
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Thanks for the replies guys!
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Old 03-20-2011, 12:52   #25
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Bushmaster has sold more AR15's than any other manufacturer in a single year (not including companies with huge military contracts). When you get that big you make enemies.
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