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Old 03-29-2011, 18:35   #51
ray9898
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I love them. If you wisely use your leave time you can take a ton of 7 day stretches off. I always schedule any time off on the "short week" so I only need to use 24 hours to be off 7 days.
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Old 03-30-2011, 06:43   #52
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I love them. If you wisely use your leave time you can take a ton of 7 day stretches off. I always schedule any time off on the "short week" so I only need to use 24 hours to be off 7 days.
This.

My wife loves my 12 hour schedule because of all the time off I have. If mama is happy, then all is well at my house.
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Old 03-30-2011, 10:50   #53
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Holy ****! Is that a cop shop or something else?

If I had that I would tell my wife to move wherever she would be happiest living alone and then I would rent a room or shack in town during my week on. Then I would drive or fly to wherever she lived. One of our guys lives in UT and commutes weekly to work. Before that we had a guy do it to NV.
Is your guy from Utah driving in or flying? I was out your way this Christmas and couldn't see counting on making it through the mountains in the winter.
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Old 03-30-2011, 13:31   #54
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I love them. If you wisely use your leave time you can take a ton of 7 day stretches off. I always schedule any time off on the "short week" so I only need to use 24 hours to be off 7 days.
We're able to do something similar with 4/10's at shift change. One shift I worked you were able to take a "2 for 8" (2 days vacation for 8 days off in a row), and another was "1 for 7" when we rotated our work schedule.

We couldn't do it all the time, but it was available when the schedule allowed.
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Old 03-30-2011, 14:21   #55
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Is your guy from Utah driving in or flying? I was out your way this Christmas and couldn't see counting on making it through the mountains in the winter.
The guy from UT is flying. Very rarely will he drive. He only drives in the late spring to early fall when he needs to do something like move furniture or his wife and kids join him for most of the summer out here. The rest of the year he flys in and out.

The guy who did the NV/CA trip for 6 years before he retired drove a little more often at first but as he got older he only drove when necessary. I think the 5-6 hour drive was too rough and ate up too much time.

The UT guy uses a SW CC to build up his air miles to take the family to HI to keep the wife happy. Or at least as happy as she can be. They have an interesting relationship to begin with. I think the two of them being apart for 4/7ths of a week helps out their marriage.

If they put us on 12s and we ended up with OT at the end of every shift I would want to move the hell out of the state to deal with all of the stress. Hard to take the work home if you are a state or two away from it all.
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Old 04-02-2011, 08:35   #56
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How would a 10 HR SCHD lay out and what kind of man power would you need?
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:16   #57
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Our 10 hour days run kind of like 8 hour days in terms of manpower but we short graves and throw extra bodies on swings since swings is there during bar closing time. If we went to 8s all we would do in terms of manpower is take some people from swings and put them on graves. Our overlap times are 0730-0830 which is mostly taken up with roll call and gearing up or down, 1630-1730 which is als taken up with roll call and gearing up or down, and 2230-0230 which is when we need it most on Thurs-Sat and sometimes Tues.
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Old 04-02-2011, 10:22   #58
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How would a 10 HR SCHD lay out and what kind of man power would you need?
It depends on the area and coverage needs.... Here, each area command (or whatever the hell we're call them these days) runs 7 patrol shifts. 2 day shifts, 3 evening shifts, and 2 night shifts. Patrol rotates their schedule (days on/off).

The day and night shifts work weekends for a month (or 28 days to be exact), then have weekends off, then back to weekends. Their work days are either tues-fri or fri-mon. Every Friday there are 2 day shifts and 2 night shifts working.

Evening shifts are trickier, because they try to work it out so two evening shifts work every night (there will be an early evening shift, and a late evening shift). This is because evenings are the busiest times (and it sucks for family life. Shifts usually range from 3p-1a to 6p-4a). Some times the schedule has an "Alamo" shift (when there's only 1 evening shift on). The different areas overlap their shifts schedules, and days on/off so as not too thin out coverage too much. It can get screwy.

I could see making it work with 2 evening shifts, but that would be more for someplace that isn't nearly as busy. If I were to come up with a 4/10 schedule for where one shift on at a time is sufficient, I would probably run the schedule something like this:

6 patrol shifts-

Day Shift 1 schedule is Tues-Fri (6a-4p)
Day Shift 2 schedule is Fri-Mon (6a-4p)


Evening Shift 1 schedule is Mon-Thurs (3p-1a)
Evening Shift 2 schedule is Thurs-Sun (3p-1a)

Night Shift 1 schedule is Tues-Fri (9p-7a)
Night Shift 2 schedule is Fri-Mon (9p-7a)

Days that shifts that are doubled up can be used for training, special assignments or projects, allowing extra people off, etc...
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:12   #59
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What do you see as the min staffing needed to have say five guys on at once?
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:39   #60
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We run 5 on graves whenfully staffed, 6 on swings when fully staffed, and 5 on days fully staffed.

Of course we have a few specialty positions such as K9, traffic, downtown, parks, etc that work during days or swings hours that add to staffing.

In all for us to run our patrol shifts at full staffing we need 94 authorzed total with about40-45 on patrol. I personally think we are top heavy and with too many people in specialty units and not enough on patrol. Minimum staffing for all shift for the whole week is about 30 people.

We also work on the team concept where there are two schedules in the week Wed-Sat and Sun-Wed. If we are short people we will work a schedule where everybody has different days off. With that scheduling we could go as low as 25 or so and not be short on the shifts. Which is sad to say because investigations or other specialty units are the last to get cut vs. patrol.
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Old 04-02-2011, 17:23   #61
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What do you see as the min staffing needed to have say five guys on at once?
If you are asking about having a minimum of 5 guys on the street, then you would need 5 guys in each shift (or 30 officers total).

Most of the day would be covered by only one shift at a time. There would only be overlap 6 hours each day....

First being 6a-7a (1 hour), with the day shift starting at 6a and the night shift getting off at 7a. This hour of overlap would actually be more about transitioning between shifts and also day shift officers to take over for night shift officer on some calls.

Second being 3p-4p (1 hour), with the evening shift officers starting at 3p and day shift getting off at 4p. Once again this hour is more transitioning....

The third overlap, 9p-7a, would be the longest (4 hours), because that would most likely be the busiest time.

Of course the schedule could be set up so there is a 2 hour overlap for each shift.
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Old 04-02-2011, 21:29   #62
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We are on 4-10s. Two patrol teams, A and B (guess which one I am from). A team works Wednesday through Saturday, with the first Wednesday of each month off as a paid holiday. The second Wednesday is A-team's training day. B-team works Sunday through Wednesday, with the third Wednesday for their holiday and the fourth Wednesday for training. In months when there is a fifth Wednesday, the entire SWAT and bomb teams train (they have frequent training, but it's often less than the full team) and patrol is combined of the leftovers. Otherwise, there are no days when both teams work.

Shifts are:
Days - 0630-1630
Early swing - 1230-2230
Swing - 1530-0130
Grave - 2130-0730

We generally run about eight on days, two on earlies, seven or eight on swings and seven on graves, when staffing is doing well. If we had the bucks to run full staffing, it would be more like 10, 5, 10 and 8.

We have shift change every January and July. Shifts are picked by seniority with a limit of one year on a shift (early and late swings both count as swings for shift pick). Exceptions are for K-9, which always works late swings, and FTOs. We don't have FTOs on graves, and sometimes FTOs can stay on a shift for more than two rotations if everything works out to allow that.

Each team is commanded by a lieutenant, and each shift is led by a sergeant. It's up to the sergeants how beats are assigned. Most do it by seniority.

We have looked at going to 12s on the Pittman schedule before, but it was put to a vote of the deputies and the majority said no. A number of guys with kids had concerns about arranging child care with having rotating days off, and others were concerned that with calls at the end of the shift and paperwork, 12s would turn into 14s pretty quickly. For FTOs, 10s pretty routinely become 12 to 14, so FTOs and trainees working 16+ hours on a scheduled 12 would be commonplace. Bad idea.
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Old 04-02-2011, 22:44   #63
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I sure would love having 4 days on and 4 days off. The days off rotate every week for everybody, which is fair.

My son's police dept. has that schedule and everybody there loves it. He told me that when you go on vacation for 4 days, you actually get 12 straight days off...I'd love a schedule like that!

At our (University) Police dept. we offer 4 Ten hour days and then 3 days off, for the afternoon and midnight shifts. For our day shift, it's 5 eight hour days per week (too many day shift deadbeats crying about family hardships, they'd actually get more time with their families by having 3 days off, instead of 2 days off).
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Old 04-03-2011, 15:02   #64
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We are trying it, and we are busy. I think a majority hates them, and hopefully we go back to 8's.
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:57   #65
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I have worked 12 hour shifts for the last 6 years and I love it. It seems to me like I have more time off on my days off. We work either a 5a to 5p shift or 5p to 5a shift. More guys on nights then days so that helps with the call volume. Again we are also slower in the winter months and pick up in the summer. I know the day shift has a harder time getting reports done but we dont have computers in the car like most departments do so we have to be at the station to write. Our schedule would go like this, work Monday & Tuesday, off Wednesday & Thursday, work Friday, Saturday & Sunday, then off Monday & Tuesday, work Wednesday & Thursday, and off Friday, Saturday & Sunday. It is nice to get every other weekend off and actually fell like you are getting some time off.
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Old 04-06-2011, 17:07   #66
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I am still on the fence about this.
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Old 04-08-2011, 14:27   #67
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We work 12's on the Pittman and I love the schedule but our rotation sucks. We rotate days to nights every set of days. I don't care to work days and I don't care to work night but I hate working both in the same week every week. Your body never gets adjusted and doesn't know whether your supposed to be asleep or awake. Hopefully it will get changed some day. Personally I would prefer rotating every two weeks.
you my fine fellow work for a moron.
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Old 04-08-2011, 15:00   #68
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we are on 12's, every other (3 day) weekend off, rotate every 3 months days to nights.

the problem is we only have two men on shift when four is usually required for all the special watches, special details, and other touchy feely stuff they want AND keep your arrest numbers up.

we loose our valuable days off often because when one man calls in sick or goes to training or wants vacation there is no coverage other than one man, so the off shift looses out often.

we also have to "do ti all", patrol, investigate, run the city jail, veh. mtnc, do admin stuff.....that makes 12's suck ass bad, burn out is common and brass getting on you about low productivity adds to the disenchantment.....8's would be a relief for the guys on day shift only, but afternoon shift would never see their families, and days off would be far and few between.
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Old 04-08-2011, 16:52   #69
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you my fine fellow work for a moron.
Think that's bad, you should try changing shifts every day... Absolutely insane!
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Old 04-08-2011, 17:12   #70
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We work 12s, 4 days on 4 days off. You rotate through weekends off every once in a while and you work as a team so I have come to like it pretty well. I have worked 8 hour shifts, 10 hour shifts, and this seems to be as good as any of the rest, maybe even better because of the long days off. We also have unlimited overtime for interstate patrol traffic safety programs, so you can pick up extra money on your days off with no problem.
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Old 04-08-2011, 17:26   #71
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We work 12's on the Pittman and I love the schedule but our rotation sucks. We rotate days to nights every set of days. I don't care to work days and I don't care to work night but I hate working both in the same week every week. Your body never gets adjusted and doesn't know whether your supposed to be asleep or awake. Hopefully it will get changed some day. Personally I would prefer rotating every two weeks.
Ouch!

We work 12s and rotate days to nights (and visa versa) every 14 days. That works out to an approximate "month" of days or nights. This is fine with me; I can do most of my follow-ups on days and get any of my particularly heavy paperwork done on nights. Plus, the actual day of the switch is on the Monday after a weekend off so that we get the whole weekend to adjust for the upcoming sleep schedule change.
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Old 04-08-2011, 18:27   #72
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Think that's bad, you should try changing shifts every day... Absolutely insane!
When we worked eights we used to have a guy that had to do a day shift, two evenings, and two late nights in a five day work week. That sucked.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:50   #73
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The vote passed, not by much but it did. Now we have to figure out hours and if there will be any over lapping shifts.
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:15   #74
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When we worked eights we used to have a guy that had to do a day shift, two evenings, and two late nights in a five day work week. That sucked.
I believe that the PA State Police do something similar with their schedules. They don't have a take home car program, but troopers who get scheduled to begin a shift 8 hours after their previous shift ended are allowed to take their car home on that particular day.

Perhaps a PSP Trooper can confirm this?
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Old 04-14-2011, 07:48   #75
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When we worked eights we used to have a guy that had to do a day shift, two evenings, and two late nights in a five day work week. That sucked.
That sort of schedule sucked bad enough as it is, but when you mix in being stuck late at EOW and court its all but in tolerable.
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