GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2011, 17:17   #1
barefoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 142
Night sights - what practical application?

I can't help but wonder - under what circumstance would I need glowing sights? Here's my reasoning: If it's so dark that the white-on-black sights don't provide adequate contrast & visibility, then I probably can't see my target well enough for a positive ID - unless I'm shooting from the dark and the target is lit, in which case, I'd be able to use the black outline of the sights to aim. Am I overlooking anything? Please school me ...
barefoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 18:43   #2
down town
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 23
night sights

I hate to say it but I agree.
down town is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 18:44   #3
Midwest9mm
Member
 
Midwest9mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 41
you need to mount a light on your glock then you will know .

That "outline" is not as fast to acquire as dots. Look at a gun with night sights in a dark but urban environment (with street lights etc.) and the benefits are hard to ignore.

When you hold a flashlight while acquiring your target in a dark room, you see the target AND sights. Not just the target and silhouette of your sights metal (or plastic) frame. All the cops around here have them. I have owned several pistols without night sights and after having them I would never NOT have them.

Plus I like being able to see my gun on the night stand in the middle of the night.

Last edited by Midwest9mm; 03-27-2011 at 18:53..
Midwest9mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 18:49   #4
NMGlocker
BOOM headshot
 
NMGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,990
Here's a novel idea.
Go to the range and actually try some low light shooting both with and without night sight equipped pistols.
School yourself instead of relying on a bunch of people of unknown experience.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Last edited by NMGlocker; 03-27-2011 at 18:49..
NMGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 19:07   #5
mdehoogh
Senior Member
 
mdehoogh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 219
I'm sitting here in a darkened room with one small lamp in the corner. Comparing my XD with standard white on black sights and my Glock with factory night sights, I can pick up the Glock MUCH faster. The lamp provides plenty of light to identify a potential threat but the illuminated sights still help with sight acquisition.

It doesn't need to be PITCH BLACK in order for night sights to work.
__________________
G33, XDM9, M590A1, SPIKES/BCM MIDLENGTH
mdehoogh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 19:50   #6
GRT45
Transform & Win
 
GRT45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdehoogh View Post
It doesn't need to be PITCH BLACK in order for night sights to work.
What you wrote is very true. In fact, in total darkness faced by an attacker, when our adrenaline is flowing and tunnel vision is closing in, it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color. For that reason alone, I much prefer a two-dot system with green on the front sight and a contrasting, dimmer color (yellow or orange) at the rear sight.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
: Strictly monogamous, I have one Glock and one woman.
GLOCK Certified Armorer,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Endowment Member, Eagle Scout

Last edited by GRT45; 03-27-2011 at 20:01..
GRT45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 21:20   #7
NMGlocker
BOOM headshot
 
NMGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRT45 View Post
it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color
Urban myth.
Pick up your pistol and deliberately mis-align the front sight to the point where it is outside the rear dots.
You have to tweak your wrist to the point that's it's obvious something isn't right.
If it doesn't feel totally foreign to you when you mis-align the sights to that extent, you need more trigger time not different colored lamps.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
NMGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 22:50   #8
GRT45
Transform & Win
 
GRT45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Urban myth.
I read Mas Ayoob's comments on the subject and his assertion that police departments take it seriously.

Night Sight front only?

Since I can't realistically simulate the gut wrenching, heart-pounding anxiety part of the equation to prove or disprove the theory, I choose to play it safe with my choice of night sights (two dots of contrasting colors), train with them and hope for the best.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
: Strictly monogamous, I have one Glock and one woman.
GLOCK Certified Armorer,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Endowment Member, Eagle Scout
GRT45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:15   #9
Midwest9mm
Member
 
Midwest9mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 41
I draw in low light conditions regularly... not ONCE have I misaligned the sights. There is a lot to be said for muscle memory.
Midwest9mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:25   #10
barefoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Here's a novel idea.
Go to the range and actually try some low light shooting both with and without night sight equipped pistols.
School yourself instead of relying on a bunch of people of unknown experience.
Well sure, if I could, but I'm not tight enough with any range owners to say "hey, can we flip the lights off for a half-hour?"

Thanks for the discussion, everyone - perhaps I'm being won over, if there's a low-light encounter, the night sights could be the edge that that makes the difference. If I'm going to replace my Glock rear sights with 3-dot's (since I'm not crazy about the dot-in-cup sights), perhaps they might as well be night sights.
barefoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 17:09   #11
NMGlocker
BOOM headshot
 
NMGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 5,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
Well sure, if I could, but I'm not tight enough with any range owners to say "hey, can we flip the lights off for a half-hour?"
You have a light switch on your wall at home don't you?
You can easily see the difference between having night sights and not having them by experimenting at your own house "dry fire".
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Last edited by NMGlocker; 03-28-2011 at 17:09..
NMGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 18:21   #12
RayB
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,986
Almost nobody knows exactly how they'll respond in an honest-to-God panic situation. Even a stone-cold warrior can be caught off guard, or when he's not at his best.

I don't think anyone here can predict how well they'd perform with a bullet or two pumped into them... I suspect that if they were still alive and at all functioning, they'd want to return fire, and they'd take any help they could get with that!

It should be obvious that in pitch blackness you wouldn't even be able to target a threat. No passive sights—except a night vision scope--are going to help you there.

As was mentioned, tritium night sights would allow you to target a silhouetted threat in very low light conditions; they may even allow you to do this without giving away your position.

While there's no substitute for first-hand experience for anything, there is a body of knowledge from which we can draw, academic though it may be to us...

To my knowledge, the Israelis helped pioneer the use of tritium night sights in real-world applications of the worst order. They were also the first to make tritium-charged night sights readily available with their Meprolight brand. Maybe they know a thing or two about all this?

Just saying...

--Ray
RayB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 18:28   #13
jtull7
Pistolero
 
jtull7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Posts: 6,840
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.
__________________
Cocked, locked, and ready to rock!

Every day I face Ogden, Utah, and pray that God might bless John Moses Browning.

Outpost Member #69 I collect and shoot many fine firearms. CCW: NM, CT, and NH. N5JHT. WFR. Former LEO. SAR. Bilateral trans-tibial amputee. Survivor of bubonic plague. Tough sum-*****.
jtull7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 21:23   #14
RayB
Retired Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.

Can't say I disagree!

In another home, with family members coming and going at various hours, a different strategy must be applied...

Right now, in Wiskonsin, with Scott Walker (C-R) as governor, we actually have a real shot at a CCW provision and Castle and Stand-Your-Ground Doctrines!

Of course, for the above-mentioned to become laws, we need to get David Prosser elected to the Wisconsin Supreme Court, this Tuesday!

We've been under Libtard rule for too long here!

--Ray
RayB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2011, 21:27   #15
Angry Fist
Lifetime Membership
The Original®
 
Angry Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LOZ
Posts: 28,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.
That's why.
__________________
I want rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, s**t-kickers, Methodists, and the GTDS.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Angry Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 13:59   #16
sciolist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,622
Taking a good low-light pistol course will provide quite a bit of insight. Gun-mounted lights have their strengths, but also some significant liabilities.

I prefer just the tritium front for carry guns, but guess it's down to personal taste. IMO, you need to be confident shooting torso-sized targets at defensive range just on physical index. Should be no problem to look at a target, close eyes, draw/present, open eyes and have post in notch close to A Zone. If not, work on that before trying to fix software problem with hardware.

If light levels are low enough that you can't see black sights, identifying and illuminating all targets without illuminating yourself is going to be much more of an issue than illuminating your sights. When you illuminate the target, the gun will be indexed, and there will be ambient light for that short period of time... but the gun should come on target as a function of you seeing the target, not the sights.
sciolist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 19:12   #17
bobelk99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central KY
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
If it's so dark that the white-on-black sights don't provide adequate contrast & visibility, then I probably can't see my target well enough for a positive ID
If you could complete just one evening of nighttime training, I believe your view would be more welcoming to night sights. Until you fire a few mags in natural night lighting (or lack thereof) and realistic attack situations, you cannot truly appreciate night sights.
bobelk99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 19:46   #18
j-glock22
Senior Member
 
j-glock22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,937
All of mine have NS. Daytime and well lit situations the dots suffice. In low light to very low light it is easy for me to sight in..... Im satisfied with them and i do use front green yellow rear although it doesnt seem to make that much difference as some have mentioned it is more muscle memory than anything.
j-glock22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 20:18   #19
Captains1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 2,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Urban myth.
Pick up your pistol and deliberately mis-align the front sight to the point where it is outside the rear dots.
You have to tweak your wrist to the point that's it's obvious something isn't right.
If it doesn't feel totally foreign to you when you mis-align the sights to that extent, you need more trigger time not different colored lamps.
I just tried it and you really don't have to tweak your wrists all that much to mis-ailgn the sights, at least not my trijis on a G19/G23. I can easily see how it could happen in a stressful situation.
Captains1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 20:29   #20
bobelk99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central KY
Posts: 1,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRT45 View Post
What you wrote is very true. In fact, in total darkness faced by an attacker, when our adrenaline is flowing and tunnel vision is closing in, it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color. For that reason alone, I much prefer a two-dot system with green on the front sight and a contrasting, dimmer color (yellow or orange) at the rear sight.
I don't agree with the misalignment concept if the shooter is trained in nighttime conditions, but I totally agree with front sight being of a different color, regardless of competence of shooter.
bobelk99 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:30.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 944
278 Members
666 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31