Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2011, 16:28   #1
Lethal Farce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Upstate, SC, USA
Posts: 576


Thpmpson Center 45/70 question.

Hi Guys,
I sent an email to to TC, but they never got back to me. I have a SS contender in 45/70. The loading manuals, break the loads down into the three actions, Trapdoor, Marlin, and Ruger #1. None mention the TC. I had been using Trapdoor loads, but feel like I want a little more umph. I was thinking of using 300gr JHP for deer and hog hunting
Thanks, LF
Lethal Farce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 17:52   #2
dudel
Senior Member
 
dudel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 4,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal Farce View Post
Hi Guys,
I sent an email to to TC, but they never got back to me. I have a SS contender in 45/70. The loading manuals, break the loads down into the three actions, Trapdoor, Marlin, and Ruger #1. None mention the TC. I had been using Trapdoor loads, but feel like I want a little more umph. I was thinking of using 300gr JHP for deer and hog hunting
Thanks, LF
T/Cs have the strongest action out there. I'd have no qualms going above the trapdoor loads. Loadbooks makes a book just for the T/C. Lots of loads in the many calibers the T/C comes in.
dudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 18:24   #3
Tom in Arizona
Senior Member
 
Tom in Arizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Munds Park, AZ
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudel View Post
T/Cs have the strongest action out there. I'd have no qualms going above the trapdoor loads. Loadbooks makes a book just for the T/C. Lots of loads in the many calibers the T/C comes in.
They do not! The Encore platform is no where near as strong as the Ruger #1 and on par with pressures of the modern lever action 45/70's.

I have a T/C Encore 45/70. Several years ago I called T/C customer service inquiring about the three different load levels listed. Their reply was not to exceed the middle range loads for the 1895 Marlin lever action rifles with the Encore.

I also have some Contender frames and they have substantially less strength and pressure levels than the Encore frame. Better wait till you get a definite reply from T/C before exceeding the Trapdoor load range with the Contender!

Having sent an e-mail to T/C reqesting that information at that time, still haven't received a reply to that question.

Last edited by Tom in Arizona; 04-05-2011 at 18:32..
Tom in Arizona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 18:50   #4
sig357fan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 724
I've got a copy of "Lyman Reloading Handbook, 46th Edition" that has load data specifically for the TC Contender but no listing in that section for the 45-70.

Perhaps a newer edition may have some Contender specific data for the 45-70.

Sig357fan

-EDIT-

“Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition” (newist edition) has cast bullet loads for the 45-70 listing 3 different sets of data for the 1873 Springfield, 1886 Winchester & 1895 Marlin Only, and the Ruger No.1 and No.3 Only. No data specifically for the Contender.

Last edited by sig357fan; 04-05-2011 at 18:57..
sig357fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2011, 20:16   #5
Lethal Farce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Upstate, SC, USA
Posts: 576


Thanks guys, some good info.
I decided to load some tonite. Went with 300gr JHP with 30gr SR4759. Should be about 1600FPS. Was the faster powder I had and listed mid to high on the Hornady Trapdoor loads. Should be good in the short TC barrel without too much pain.
Regards, LF
Lethal Farce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 04:25   #6
Roughedgekid
Old Fart
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 264
What size barrel do you have ? I have the 14 inch on mine and I back off a little from the min. for the ruger #1. Still packs a punch.
__________________
The man that dies with the most stuff wins.
Roughedgekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 05:23   #7
Lethal Farce
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Upstate, SC, USA
Posts: 576


Mine is the 14" also. I have gone full circle on this. I am back to the trapdoor loads, as they are plenty stiff to shoot as is. I shot a big hog with some very fast, hard cast lead in my guide gun, and they went right thru without opening up. For this gun, I am thinking the JHP at a more reasonable velocity, makes more sense.
Thanks
Lethal Farce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 06:01   #8
Roughedgekid
Old Fart
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 264
I'm loading a 300 gr JHP , shoot a hog and it opened up well and didnt come out the back side. When I fire up my gun room computer I'll see if I can find the powder I used.
__________________
The man that dies with the most stuff wins.
Roughedgekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 10:29   #9
Roughedgekid
Old Fart
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 264
Try 28gr. of 2400 under a 300 gr JHP and see how you like it. Strong enough to take down something but it wont break your arm.
__________________
The man that dies with the most stuff wins.
Roughedgekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 10:59   #10
dudel
Senior Member
 
dudel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 4,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom in Arizona View Post
They do not! The Encore platform is no where near as strong as the Ruger #1 and on par with pressures of the modern lever action 45/70's.

I have a T/C Encore 45/70. Several years ago I called T/C customer service inquiring about the three different load levels listed. Their reply was not to exceed the middle range loads for the 1895 Marlin lever action rifles with the Encore.
Can't speak to the Encore, because mine is one of the original T/Cs (pre G2). They've got very strong actions. OP did not mention (or I missed it) as to which T/C they have. The original T/Cs are plenty strong or they wouldn't handle the JDJ loads. Many T/Cs were used to test very high power loads because of their strenght (and the variety of chambers). Again, I can't speak to the strength of your Encore.

I'll grant you that the Ruger #1 is a very strong action, which is why I said I wouldn't have a problem taking a T/C to the mid level loads. I should have clarified by specifying a non Encore model.
dudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:06   #11
ColoCG
Senior Member
 
ColoCG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal Farce View Post
Thanks guys, some good info.
I decided to load some tonite. Went with 300gr JHP with 30gr SR4759. Should be about 1600FPS. Was the faster powder I had and listed mid to high on the Hornady Trapdoor loads. Should be good in the short TC barrel without too much pain.
Regards, LF



Hey Lethal, Hornady's 7th edition lists T/C Contender loads for 45-70.

With the 300gr. HP they show a starting load of 25gr SR4759 with a max of 29.3gr. for 1600fps in a 16" barrel.

Lyman's 49th manual also has loads for the T/C Contender & Encore in 45-70 but doesn't have a load with SR4759 in the 300gr. bullet.

Last edited by ColoCG; 04-06-2011 at 11:35..
ColoCG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 11:53   #12
byf43
NRA Life Member
 
byf43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 13,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal Farce View Post
I shot a big hog with some very fast, hard cast lead in my guide gun, and they went right thru without opening up.
Last Thursday, I shot a big hog (350 lbs.) with a Guide Gun, shooting 405 gr Hardcast, right at 1700 fps.
The slug went in just behind the right shoulder, and did not come out.
That hog dropped without taking a step. A friend that was hunting with us said that the hide on the hog shuddered, just like a stone hitting a lake, and rippled out to the edges, then the hog just dropped.

The butcher said that he'd save the slug IF he finds it.

Cast Performance 405 gr WLNGC and Reloader 7 powder. Nice load. Again, it's right at 1700 fps.
__________________
G21 Gen2; G19 Gen3; G30SF; G23 Gen3; G26 Gen4. GLOCK Certified Armorer

"Live Free. Practice democracy. Make a difference. Love your family and your country." H.N.K. (My Dad) 09/02/1924 - 05/11/2012

Last edited by byf43; 04-06-2011 at 11:59..
byf43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 12:19   #13
Tom in Arizona
Senior Member
 
Tom in Arizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Munds Park, AZ
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudel View Post
Can't speak to the Encore, because mine is one of the original T/Cs (pre G2). They've got very strong actions. OP did not mention (or I missed it) as to which T/C they have. The original T/Cs are plenty strong or they wouldn't handle the JDJ loads. Many T/Cs were used to test very high power loads because of their strenght (and the variety of chambers). Again, I can't speak to the strength of your Encore.

I'll grant you that the Ruger #1 is a very strong action, which is why I said I wouldn't have a problem taking a T/C to the mid level loads. I should have clarified by specifying a non Encore model.
I only have three of the (original) pre-G2 Contender frames with really nice triggers. Can't buy them new anymore and I doubt T/C has any left to replace with, so I would not want to risk stretching them with an overpressure load, which does happen. You can do what you want with your own frame, but call T/C and see what they recommend.

Been using the Contender platform for quite a while now and rather familar with it. The G2 Contenders are advertised to handle slightly more pressure, but nowhere near the Encore. The JDJ Contender chamberings were designed to produce specific stress that the will accomodate the Contender frame and that is not necessarily transferable to all other chamberings.

Last edited by Tom in Arizona; 04-06-2011 at 12:23..
Tom in Arizona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 18:02   #14
dudel
Senior Member
 
dudel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 4,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom in Arizona View Post
I only have three of the (original) pre-G2 Contender frames with really nice triggers. Can't buy them new anymore and I doubt T/C has any left to replace with, so I would not want to risk stretching them with an overpressure load, which does happen. You can do what you want with your own frame, but call T/C and see what they recommend.
I've been shooting T/Cs for 20+ years, so my collection is pretty important to me as well. I don't care for the G2, much less the Encores. Having shot them for so long, I've got lots of info saved on various loads, the platform, etc. I'll have to dig through boxes to find it all.

While I wouldn't take it to the Ruger #1 levels, I'd certainly take it past the basic levels the OP mentioned.

IIRC, the 45-70 is not a high pressure load. It's been a while since I've shot 45-70 (and then it was in a Ruger #1), so I'll have to check to be certain.
dudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 18:25   #15
Tom in Arizona
Senior Member
 
Tom in Arizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Munds Park, AZ
Posts: 195
What would be nice to have is a test to determine the extent you can go without gradually developing damage with the old Contenders. Wish there was one.
Tom in Arizona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 20:11   #16
dudel
Senior Member
 
dudel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: North Georgia Mountains
Posts: 4,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom in Arizona View Post
What would be nice to have is a test to determine the extent you can go without gradually developing damage with the old Contenders. Wish there was one.
True enough.

While digging through my T/C stuff, I found a book and reloading by Dean Grennell. There is a chapter devoted to load development of a wide range of calibers using the T/C. The book is from the late 70's / early 80s. Some wild loads developed back then. I guess people weren't listening to lawyers back then.

Have you seen the T/C Loadbook? Normally Loadbooks does one book per caliber; for this book, they did loads for the T/C. It's much thicker than the normal Loadbook. I see they now have vol1 and 2. Mine is the single volume. http://loadbooks.com/
dudel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2011, 20:25   #17
Tom in Arizona
Senior Member
 
Tom in Arizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Munds Park, AZ
Posts: 195
It seems like quite a few decades that I looked thru one of those Loadbooks which are compulations of data from different sources, don't use any printed data anymore as I have found that the printed data is often later revised, but can't be revised on paper you already have.

So I just rely on the data online from the different mfg's. What few remaining manuals that for metalic cartridges and shotshell I still have are really outdated.
Also found that I can get better current data by either phone or e-mail contacts with the different tech support departments, almost always cooperative and very helpful.

I am not so sure that it is entirely the lawyers influencing the new data. I suspect a bit of it is that there have been significant improvement over time in both the equipment and methodology in the testing that may be more accurate and revealing.

Last edited by Tom in Arizona; 04-06-2011 at 20:46..
Tom in Arizona is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:35.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,236
336 Members
900 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31