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Old 04-11-2011, 10:29   #1
Flipz
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9mm 147gr Subsonic Load????

Hey there fellow GTR members,

I need your help. Ive recently purchased a few suppressors. A .22lr SilencerCo Stainless Steel Sparrow and a SilencerCo 9mm Osprey. Obviously I wont be reloading for .22lr, but I would like to reload some 147gr subsonics. So Im looking for your help in developing a clean subsonic load using MG 147gr CMJ's.

Currently I load 9mm 124gr's with either Unique or Win231. Ive never loaded 147gr's before so Im not sure if these 2 powders would be the best choice. I know it wont really be a problem keeping 147's subsonic so Im more concerned with a clean burning load. Using 147 CMJ will help with keeping a clean burn, since there is no exposed lead base. But Im still left with what powder to use. Some Ive spoken to suggest TG, some suggest VV N320, PP, AA#5, and even Clays.

Any suggestions you guys have for me would be greatly appreciated. I have a good couple of months to get everything dialed in but would rather start now. That way, when the ATF approves everything Ill be ready to go.

Thanks.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:01   #2
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When I was looking for powder for 147 grain 9mm, I noticed that AA#7 was developed for the 9mm 147 grain bullet. I found it to be accurate and to meter well.

As to whether it is clean, here is a forum where the members felt it was not particularly dirty if the load was relatively hot. But slower loads left behind residue.
http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...5/m/6340069542
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:21   #3
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Vhit N-3320 is the cleanest burning powder I've ever used, but I don't have any personal experience using it with 147 gr bullets.
I load it for my 115 gr for USPSA production division & clean my G34 about every 2K rounds.
It might be just the ticket for your "canned" gun, as a light load will still be at proper operating pressures for a good burn & the velocity with the heavy bullet will give you the sub-sonic level you're looking for.

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Old 04-11-2011, 11:29   #4
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For what Ive read it seems VV N320 is the way to go. Its just kinda hard to find load data for it. Ive seen loads for N320 between 3.5-3.9.

I should add that I will be shooting these loads through a G17 and a P226 Elite. Both stock.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:34   #5
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I use WSF with my 147 loads. Very clean burning.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:41   #6
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The 2 other powders Im looking at are Win231 (since I already have it) and Universal Clays.

Anyone with experience loading 147 CMJ or FMJ's with:
Win231
VV N320
Universal Clays

let me know what you think. Im really looking for the cleanest powder I can get.
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Last edited by Flipz; 04-11-2011 at 11:43..
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:50   #7
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Just got some info from a fellow shooter, up in WI they can own a "can" which we can't here in IL.
Anyhow, he suggested a 3.2 gr start load with the N-320, with a OAL of 1.142"
The 1.142" is the longest that will be 100% in a Glock mag, some may take longer, but all will take the 1.142".
He's run the load with Horn. XTP's & Montana Gold FMJ, no issues.
Said to hold a max. of 4.0gr & work up to it if needed to function, some things wont run at the lower levels (MP-9 w/can)
Hope this helps.

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Old 04-11-2011, 11:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flipz View Post
The 2 other powders Im looking at are Win231 (since I already have it) and Universal Clays.

Anyone with experience loading 147 CMJ or FMJ's with:
Win231
VV N320
Universal Clays

let me know what you think. Im really looking for the cleanest powder I can get.
VV going to be the cleanest of those I bet. Problem is not much data for it with 147gr bullets. You could move up to N330 Probably be just as clean.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VN350X10 View Post
Just got some info from a fellow shooter, up in WI they can own a "can" which we can't here in IL.
Anyhow, he suggested a 3.2 gr start load with the N-320, with a OAL of 1.142"
The 1.142" is the longest that will be 100% in a Glock mag, some may take longer, but all will take the 1.142".
He's run the load with Horn. XTP's & Montana Gold FMJ, no issues.
Said to hold a max. of 4.0gr & work up to it if needed to function, some things wont run at the lower levels (MP-9 w/can)
Hope this helps.

uncle albert
Great info. Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2011, 13:11   #10
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Last week I tested these. All OAL is 1.35. Tested with chrono with G17.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Unique 147 RN<o:p></o:p>
3.8 897 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.0 942 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.2 977 FPS<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
700X 147 RN Tested with G19<o:p></o:p>
2.6 719 FPS<o:p></o:p>
2.8 745 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.0 759 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.2 819 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.4 854 FPS<o:p></o:p>
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Old 04-11-2011, 13:19   #11
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Last week I tested these. All OAL is 1.35. Tested with chrono with G17.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Unique 147 RN<o:p></o:p>
3.8 897 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.0 942 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.2 977 FPS<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
700X 147 RN Tested with G19<o:p></o:p>
2.6 719 FPS<o:p></o:p>
2.8 745 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.0 759 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.2 819 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.4 854 FPS<o:p></o:p>
Any observation on how clean the Unique loads were?
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Old 04-11-2011, 15:12   #12
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Help me understand why so many posts are concerned about "how clean" the powder is? Seems at times that is more important to the OP's than accuracy, etc. I clean my weapons usually after every outing so a little more or less soot is just not important. Possibly you are concerned for the build up inside the can? I use Weapon Shield as lube and the dirt mostly wipes off. School me because I really want to know why this is so important.
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Old 04-11-2011, 15:21   #13
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Help me understand why so many posts are concerned about "how clean" the powder is? Seems at times that is more important to the OP's than accuracy, etc. I clean my weapons usually after every outing so a little more or less soot is just not important. Possibly you are concerned for the build up inside the can? I use Weapon Shield as lube and the dirt mostly wipes off. School me because I really want to know why this is so important.
Bingo!

Also, using a suppressor causes a lot more blow back into the guns internals. Having a cleaner load helps to reduce this as much as possible.
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Last edited by Flipz; 04-11-2011 at 15:22..
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Old 04-11-2011, 16:03   #14
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Last week I tested these. All OAL is 1.35. Tested with chrono with G17.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Unique 147 RN<o:p></o:p>
3.8 897 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.0 942 FPS<o:p></o:p>
4.2 977 FPS<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
700X 147 RN Tested with G19<o:p></o:p>
2.6 719 FPS<o:p></o:p>
2.8 745 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.0 759 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.2 819 FPS<o:p></o:p>
3.4 854 FPS<o:p></o:p>
Are those lead bullets?
I think we should specify lead or jacketed when listing data, especially when the OP asks about jacketed.

FWIW, HS-6 and SR 7625 are great powders for 147 plated or jacketed loads.
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Old 04-11-2011, 16:04   #15
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Originally Posted by Kwesi View Post
Help me understand why so many posts are concerned about "how clean" the powder is? Seems at times that is more important to the OP's than accuracy, etc. I clean my weapons usually after every outing so a little more or less soot is just not important. Possibly you are concerned for the build up inside the can? I use Weapon Shield as lube and the dirt mostly wipes off. School me because I really want to know why this is so important.

You have raised the ire of the Italian Avenger! Well, not you personally but you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They're not weapons, they're just guns, plain and simple. A credit card is not a weapon until you slice it across someone's throat... a ball point pen is not a weapon until you jamb it up through the base of someone's ear into the brain, a baseball bat is simply a piece of recreational equipment as is a gun until specifically used for a more serious purpose.

Sorry, just one of my pet peeves. I use to collect women, now I collect pet peeves... women are more fun, but more expensive too.


Jack
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Old 04-11-2011, 16:04   #16
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And the winner is....

3.8grns. WST w/147grn. bullet , OAL 1.150"

Good for 940fps in pistol barrels (4-5"), very clean burning inside AND outside the gun. The only powder leaving less residue would be something from the VV line but I'm not mortgaging the house to buy any. Accuracy is excellent, recoil light.

I've gone as low as 3.2grns. with full functioning through a variety of 9mms over the years. Cases tumble out of the gun and land at your feet.
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Old 04-11-2011, 16:21   #17
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Are those lead bullets?
I think we should specify lead or jacketed when listing data, especially when the OP asks about jacketed.

FWIW, HS-6 and SR 7625 are great powders for 147 plated or jacketed loads.
They were the Berry's 147. I wasn't able to finish that day and I still have more to test.
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Old 04-11-2011, 16:25   #18
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Any observation on how clean the Unique loads were?
I like Unique. The only powder that ever bugged my is Bluedot. I had flakes of powder all over the place because it did not burn off.
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Old 04-11-2011, 17:35   #19
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The best balance I found between residue left in suppressor, noise, and accuracy was Universal.

See my thread
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Old 04-11-2011, 19:47   #20
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Flipz, consider using a JHP design if you are concerned about exposed lead bases. The design by nature has a closed base, thus no lead to potentially vaporize and coat your baffles.

I did some testing with the elusive Zero 147gr JHP this past October. Tests were done with both Unique and WSF powders at sea level. I decided on WSF powder, as I have not found Unique to be as "clean burning" as Alliant wants us to think. Brass was Winchester range pickups, Winchester SP primers, ten shot groups through each firearm in each test, stock pistols without modification thru stock barrels, COL 1.13.

FirearmHigh Low Avg <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Spread</st1:City> <st1:State w:st="on">SD</st1:State></st1:place> Charge Powder<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
P226 854 879 868 25 10.58 4.0 WSF<o:p></o:p>
P228 842 882 859 40 14.73 4.0 WSF<o:p></o:p>
P239 841 869 859 29 12.00 4.0 WSF<o:p></o:p>
G19 894 912 904 18 7.61 4.0 WSF<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
P226 872 908 891 36 14.79 4.0 Unique<o:p></o:p>
P239 852 890 868 37 13.67 4.0 Unique<o:p></o:p>
G19 892 933 908 41 16.97 4.0 Unique<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
P226 922 951 933 29 11.95 4.2 Unique<o:p></o:p>
P239 876 902 885 26 10.90 4.2 Unique<o:p></o:p>
G19 947 974 959 27 10.48 4.2 Unique<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
P226 932 990 959 57 22.62 4.4 Unique<o:p></o:p>
P239 891 931 910 40 14.89 4.4 Unique<o:p></o:p>
G19 963 999 976 37 14.17 4.4 Unique
(sorry, I've tried about 6-7 times to orient this data, and was unsuccessful)

I have "heard" that using a suppressor may increase the velocity. I have not tested this in 9mm (my suppressor is in the transfer process). In tests with bulk Remington Golden Bullets thru a Sig Mosquito, I found no conclusive variance one way or another. In one test, the velocity averaged 5fps higher with the suppressor, in another it was 7fps less. At this point, I'd have to say bunk to the rumor.

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Old 04-11-2011, 21:50   #21
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For the loads to be shot suppressed I will be using Montana Gold 147gr CMJ's. This way there won't be any exposed lead at all.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioaJack View Post
They're not weapons, they're just guns, plain and simple. A credit card is not a weapon until you slice it across someone's throat... a ball point pen is not a weapon until you jamb it up through the base of someone's ear into the brain, a baseball bat is simply a piece of recreational equipment as is a gun until specifically used for a more serious purpose.
Jack
Jack: I sure won't make that mistake again...correction received ;-).
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:46   #23
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For the loads to be shot suppressed I will be using Montana Gold 147gr CMJ's. This way there won't be any exposed lead at all.
I've run a bunch of these, with VVN320. I don't have my load info in front of me, but they were running about 910fps out of my G17. Accurate enough for me.

Just switched to PDs though, for cost.
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:05   #24
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I've run a bunch of these, with VVN320. I don't have my load info in front of me, but I they were running about 910fps out of my G17. Accurate enough for me.

Just switched to PDs though, for cost.
When you get a chance if you could PM me your load for the MG 147 CMJ's and N320 Id really appreciate it. So far I hear great things about N320, but the hard part is finding data on it (charge and OAL).
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Old 04-12-2011, 18:11   #25
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When you get a chance if you could PM me your load for the MG 147 CMJ's and N320 Id really appreciate it. So far I hear great things about N320, but the hard part is finding data on it (charge and OAL).
I'll post it here, as there may be others who want to see it.

Montana Gold 147gr CMJ @ 1.120" OAL with 3.56gr N320 got me:
913fps
Extreme spread of 20 and Standard Deviation of 7. This ES and SD is the best of any powders I've used previously

Honestly, I'm not sure if I could detect any difference (recoil wise or smoke wise) from WSF, which is a lot cheaper.
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