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Old 04-24-2011, 18:15   #21
Foxtrotx1
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True, glycerin is polar. Spaced on that. Non polar...hmmmm. any liquid alkane might work. cyclohexane causes cancer, thats out.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:16   #22
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Ok, I've found out that a 60/40 mixture of paraffin/beeswax might be the right consistency. I've gotten some good help from people who do investment casting, and modeling with wax. I'm gonna search for a cheap beeswax source, and also check out a local art store, as there seem to be many different types, grades, and consistencies of commercially available modeling wax out there. I'm sure I'll get some dirty looks when I explain what I'm doing. I'll keep everyone posted, hopefully I'll be catching some bullets next weekend.

Found the beeswax, it's like $7.50 a pound. Sweet.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 04-25-2011 at 02:19..
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:43   #23
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AHA!!! It looks like Vaseline will work. Thank you, Massad Ayoob. I was reading his GATE Self Defense forum, and he gave a link to a site that says equal parts paraffin wax and petroleum jelly (Vaseline) will make a suitable ballistic material (like the Bullet Test Tube). Awesome. I'll have some tests soon. Feel free to beat me to it!

Here's the site:
http://www.guns.com/think-of-all-the...materials.html

Equal parts sounds like it would be too soft to me, but we'll see. I'll start at 10% Vaseline and work up in 10% increments.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 04-25-2011 at 06:51..
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:01   #24
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Here's a post from someone that's done it:

"Ballistic Wax is easier to make.

1 part Paraffin
1 part Vaseline
1 or 2 crayons for color

It's easiest to use a camp stove for this.

Melt paraffin (and crayons) in a large can or pot.
Slowly add Vaseline while stirring

Pour into old breadpan. When cool it should pop right out. It can be remelted and reused.

Don't touch the wax and then your glasses. It doesn't come off in any reasonable manner.

You can see entry and exit cavities. You can cut the wax to see the shot channel.

BTW Don't buy a bunch of wax and two large of containers of Vaseline at the same time. The cashier gives you an odd look.

Pete



Read more: http://www.ohiosportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26293#ixzz1KXUxQtQS"

Why do we always forget the wonderful thing that is Google. Several of us were sitting here wasting time, talking chemistry, and all I had to do was type "making ballistic wax" into Google.

Instead of using bread pans, I would recommend using shipping tubes, to approximate the Bullet Test Tube. One thing I read on the original post that started this thread: the guy said when pouring the melted wax into the shipping tubes, the instructions (for the BTT) said to do it in layers. Pour one layer, let it cool, etc. It may not be necessary, but I thought I'd add it.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 04-25-2011 at 07:03..
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:52   #25
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I like the ballistic wax for its ability to capture the wound channel, but it seems ballistics gel can be made quite easily from simple Knott's gelatin (which is like $8).

I'm already envisioning making a chest mold with ribs and all, if I can find a cheap anatomy skeleton. I would likely use gel for that. I could even make an arm and place it in front of the chest, to test penetration though extremities and then into the chest. I think I need to slow down.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:43   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I like the ballistic wax for its ability to capture the wound channel, but it seems ballistics gel can be made quite easily from simple Knott's gelatin (which is like $8).

I'm already envisioning making a chest mold with ribs and all, if I can find a cheap anatomy skeleton. I would likely use gel for that. I could even make an arm and place it in front of the chest, to test penetration though extremities and then into the chest. I think I need to slow down.
LOL. Please don't slow down. Whether we admit it or not, we want to see these tests.
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Old 04-26-2011, 14:56   #27
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Ok, so I bought enough wax and Vaseline to make a test run. I hope it's enough to stop the bullet. I may not have bought enough, so the column may be too shallow to stop it. I'm making it right now. I'm making a video of both the process of making the wax, and I'll make a video of the shooting. I was gonna go test it today, but it looks like this stuff will not harden in time. I'll try to get it to cool fast (in the fridge), but I can't promise anything. I'll likely have to shoot it tomorrow. I'll post the videos on YouTube, and post a link here when I'm done. I'll keep you guys informed.
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Old 04-26-2011, 15:46   #28
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I've seen them at Cabela's bargain cave for like $17. Maybe I'll pick one up sometime.
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Old 04-26-2011, 17:33   #29
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Well, I'm in...
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Old 04-26-2011, 20:40   #30
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Science!
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Old 04-26-2011, 22:19   #31
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I'm uploading the how-to video onto YouTube right now. I'll post a link when I'm done. It should be there around twenty minutes from now. I'll take a shot at it tomorrow if the weather is ok, and make a video of the results. I'm starting to worry that I didn't put enough Vaseline. I made it 60/40 wax/Vaseline because the wax comes in 16oz. boxes, the Vaseline in 13oz. jars. I got two of each. We will see how it goes.

By the way, don't worry about the Crayons for coloring it. They are "washable", or water-soluble, so they don't dissolve in the wax. It looks like I'll end up with light green wax, with dark green layers in between each layer.

Also, layering the wax (pouring just a little, letting it harden, then doing another) IS important. Otherwise, the center of the wax shrinks and it causes a 1.5-2" deep hole in the center. I made mine in two batches. The first batch, I layered it, and it came out good, but the second batch, I just poured it all in there. It made like a sinkhole in the middle. I'm gonna fill it in, but if anyone else does it, layer it.
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Old 04-26-2011, 22:48   #32
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Here's the video on how to make the wax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtzQT8S2wBg

Sorry, the quality is only 360p. I had recorded it in 1080p HD, but I kept having problems uploading it. I would wait 30 min for it to upload and it would mess up, so after 2 failed attempts, I just figured I'd try a smaller file size. Anyway, as I've said, I'll have a shooting video tomorrow.

Rule of thumb: My 4"+/- diameter tube needed one box of wax/jar of Vaseline combo to account for about 4" of depth. So, using this, you can calculate how much you will need to buy. Use the formula for the volume of a cylinder:

V=pi x radius squared x height

My 4" tube, and 4" of height gives a volume of about 50 cu. in. for each box/jar combo. To calculate about how much you will need for your tube (I would recommend a larger diameter tube), use the following example: for a 6" tube, the volume required for 12" of height (or however much you want, the BTT is 11") is found by the equation V = 3.1416 x (3 x 3) x 12. Volume = 339 cu. in. If one box/jar combo makes 50 cu. in. you would need 339/50 =6.78 boxes/jars. So, for a 6" diameter, 12" long tube, get 7 boxes of wax, and 7 jars of Vaseline.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 04-26-2011 at 23:11..
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Old 04-26-2011, 23:11   #33
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Ok if that doesn't pan out. How about Butter and Paraffin?

Just got out of the instrument lab at school, 2 hours of NMR, IR. Loads of fun
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Old 04-26-2011, 23:28   #34
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Butter might work too, I just used the Vaseline since it was one of the first thoughts I had, and then I found where lots of people have used this recipe. The only reason I'm afraid I might have issues is that I used 13 oz. of Vaseline to ever 16 oz. of wax, since those were the package sizes in which they came. If this cracks or something, I'll melt it, add 9 oz. of Vaseline and try it again.

BTW, I just realized there is no shot of the finished product in the video, so I'll post some pics in a little while.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 04-26-2011 at 23:31..
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:59   #35
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Ok, so the test is done and the results are . . . . . . GREAT!!! Although, I think there may be too much petroleum jelly (even though I used 40% instead of 50% as the recipe said). Further testing with a Factory Silvertip has shown that the wax mixture is just right. Penetration of the Silvertip was 6", which is in line with The Bullet Test Tube. I fired a single Hornady 155gr XTP over 12.9gr Blue Dot, CCI 300 primer, COAL 1.260", out of a stock G29. It was a good center hit, and it penetrated the full 12" of the tube!!! it was found right under the tube, and obviously had bled about 99% of its velocity as it didn't even penetrate the cardboard that was under the tube.

Bullet specs: Max expansion was .745", min .659" for an average diameter of around .705" (off the top of my head, so not exact). Retained mass was 147.1gr, which is about 4 grains better than my results in the water jugs. There were NO signs of jacket separation, the bullet appeared to have functioned flawlessly. One tiny piece of lead was found on the ground under the tube, another in the wax. The wound channel measured about 1.25" at max diameter, see pics.

THE MOST INTERESTING THING: Look at the entry hole. See how the hole is NOT round, it's HEXAGONAL, and measures about .705"!!! That means the bullet had already FULLY expanded in the first 1/2" of penetration!!! That's awesome. Full, instant expansion, and 12+" of penetration. Does it get much better than that?! I believe the XTPs are some wicked bullets, they just act like underachievers. Pics will follow, but I'm in a hurry so forgive me if they have to wait.

P.S. I risked my life to bring y'all this test today (not really), but honestly, we had a tornado at 6:00 this morning and have more on the way, so I slipped out for a test in between. Now that's dedication!!!

Here are some pics:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4494

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4493

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4492

Last edited by 21Carrier; 05-06-2011 at 02:37..
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:40   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Ok, so the test is done and the results are . . . . . . GREAT!!! Although, I think there may be too much petroleum jelly (even though I used 40% instead of 50% as the recipe said). I fired a single Hornady 155gr XTP over 12.9gr Blue Dot, CCI 300 primer, COAL 1.260", out of a stock G29. It was a good center hit, and it penetrated the full 12" of the tube!!! it was found right under the tube, and obviously had bled about 99% of its velocity as it didn't even penetrate the cardboard that was under the tube.

Bullet specs: Max expansion was .745", min .659" for an average diameter of around .705" (off the top of my head, so not exact). Retained mass was 147.1gr, which is about 4 grains better than my results in the water jugs. There were NO signs of jacket separation, the bullet appeared to have functioned flawlessly. One tiny piece of lead was found on the ground under the tube, another in the wax. The wound channel measured about 1.25" at max diameter, see pics.

THE MOST INTERESTING THING: Look at the entry hole. See how the hole is NOT round, it's HEXAGONAL, and measures about .705"!!! That means the bullet had already FULLY expanded in the first 1/2" of penetration!!! That's awesome. Full, instant expansion, and 12+" of penetration. Does it get much better than that?! I believe the XTPs are some wicked bullets, they just act like underachievers. Pics will follow, but I'm in a hurry so forgive me if they have to wait.

P.S. I risked my life to bring y'all this test today (not really), but honestly, we had a tornado at 6:00 this morning and have more on the way, so I slipped out for a test in between. Now that's dedication!!!

Here are some pics:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4494

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4493

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/pict...pictureid=4492


Awesome!
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:16   #37
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Your kept your promise this is pretty cool can't wait to see your improved version!


you should probably check out a hobby lobby or simliar for wax coloring since the crayon's didn't turn out so well.

Last edited by rippleAdder; 04-27-2011 at 10:19..
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Old 04-27-2011, 19:07   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippleAdder View Post
Your kept your promise this is pretty cool can't wait to see your improved version!


you should probably check out a hobby lobby or simliar for wax coloring since the crayon's didn't turn out so well.
Thanks for the idea. I'll find something to color it. I'm gonna make a 50/50 version and a 70/30 wax/pj version and see which is better. Although, I might just not mess with the mixture, and make it about 5" longer, and 2" wider. I mean 12-14" is supposed to be what this bullet should do in tissue, so maybe that means the 60/40 mixture I used is pretty analogous to tissue. Either way it's pretty cool, cost me $15.43 total, and being able to see the channel is awesome.

I'll do another test soon, but it's gonna be a few days. We got DRILLED by 15 tornadoes today (16 now) one being an EF-5 that STAYED an EF-5 and travelled for like 150 miles. It barely missed me. Tuscaloosa (where U of Alabama is) looks like a war zone. This thing cut a 1-1.5 mile wide path of death and destruction from Mississippi to Georgia, and it's still going. There's already like 40 dead and I'm sure it will be over 100 by the time things settle down. I've never seen anything like this.
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Old 04-27-2011, 20:40   #39
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Whoa! Stay safe and thank you very much for sharing the photos with us. I would love to see a 165 grain Gold Dot run through that.
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Old 04-28-2011, 00:30   #40
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I've been trying to find some Gold Dots, along with Nosler 135s, but I'm not having luck. As soon as I get some, they will be tested. I need to make about 10 of these tubes so I can test more than one bullet per trip.

By the way, the shock from the bullet hitting the wax, and the resultant internal pressure spike was strong enough to split the cardboard tube and two layers of duct tape in half. It only did it on the front half of the tube, as the energy was much lower in the back half. I'm not trying to dig up a dead horse for beating duty, but that is a good demonstration of energy transfer and "hydrostatic shock". After all, if internal pressure could bust a layer of cardboard and two layers of duct tape, I'm fairly sure it could impart some nasty pressure related trauma to a living circulatory system. Although you will never hear me argue that such a phenomenon is reliable enough to count on. I'll keep counting on placement, expansion, and penetration, but if I ever need it, I'll hope for some pressure related trauma, too.
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