GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-05-2011, 07:27   #226
nickE10mm
F.S.F.O.S.
 
nickE10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 4,202
Send a message via AIM to nickE10mm Send a message via MSN to nickE10mm Send a message via Yahoo to nickE10mm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
...I guess 10mm kind of takes you by storm, and it takes a little while to come back to your senses.
Couldnt have said it better myself.
__________________
10 Ring #1033 - Longslide #1045 - 10mm Loader #1066
http://www.bren-ten.com/website/index.html
Why do I carry a 10mm?
“Because a 9mm only kills your body… the 10mm kills your soul.”
nickE10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 08:24   #227
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,139
Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.

Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 08:29   #228
nickE10mm
F.S.F.O.S.
 
nickE10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 4,202
Send a message via AIM to nickE10mm Send a message via MSN to nickE10mm Send a message via Yahoo to nickE10mm
Quote:
Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.
Yep, Power Pistol must be a bit faster powder than BD.

Quote:
Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
Yes sir!
__________________
10 Ring #1033 - Longslide #1045 - 10mm Loader #1066
http://www.bren-ten.com/website/index.html
Why do I carry a 10mm?
“Because a 9mm only kills your body… the 10mm kills your soul.”
nickE10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 09:17   #229
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.

Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
That's good to know. It seems like Power Pistol does better in the short barrels than Blue Dot. I'm anxious to start testing Longshot. I really liked the accuracy and feel of the loads I shot of it. I just bought my first jugs of PP and Longshot, so I'll be playing with them soon.

I just can't imagine having so much fun with another caliber. It just seems like all other calibers are so boring. Like .45ACP, it's either 185gr or 230gr. Really light load, or maximum (which is basically like Winchester White Box), and there's really not much room in between them for a medium load. My .45ACP load book is all of 2 pages with one powder: Unique.

My 10mm book is like 15-20. With 10mm I've loaded 7 different weights of bullets, I have 6 on hand, I have 5 powders to choose from (Unique, BD, PP, 800-X, Longshot), and you can load it to .40S&W level, medium, hot, and nuclear. When I go to the range, I have ONE flavor of .45ACP, and that's usually 230gr FMJ with about 6.3gr of Unique. But THEN, I usually have at least SIX different loads in 10mm, and always a box or two of different SD hollow points in case I get frisky and want to blow up some water jugs. Variety is the spice of life, as they say, and 10mm certainly provides it.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 10:06   #230
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Guys, GTRhino24 made an awesome spreadsheet of all of the data contained within this thread. It is an excel document, and has every bit of pertinent info from the whole thread. It is arranged so that each row is a bullet manufacturer, then with each bullet weight in a different column. Each box has all of the velocity info, high, low, es, average, wax penetration, expansion, etc. Check it out. We will continue to add onto it as more tests are done. This is definitely the best way to organize and view the data.

Let me know if the link below doesn't work:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hJQ1E&hl=en_US

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-05-2011 at 10:12..
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 11:46   #231
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,139
GTRhino24, nicely done!
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 12:15   #232
GTRhino24
Blazin' 10mm x2
 
GTRhino24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 193
Thank you kindly. It's the least I can do since 21Carrier is doing a lot of the legwork. If you think of more fields that would be helpful, let me know. Right now, we only have G29 w/ stock barrel data, but as tests are done with other barrels/guns, I will add detail to break that out. I picked up some Pow'R Ball 10mm SD ammo today and pulled some of those to test. I'm really curious to see how that ball affects expansion in the wax.
__________________
G26, G29SF, G20SF

Last edited by GTRhino24; 08-05-2011 at 12:16..
GTRhino24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2011, 16:13   #233
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I am also curious about the Pow'RBall load. I know I've shot some into water jugs and they usually blow apart pretty good. I've tested them in water in .45ACP (wax tube test coming in the future), 10mm, and .357Sig. They all seem to do pretty well, but I doubt penetration is going to be mind-blowing. I'm expecting them to be more like the 135gr Noslers.

GTRhino, since you have the aftermarket G20 barrel, I'm going to order an extended Storm Lake or KKM barrel for the G29 sometime soon. I'm thinking something around 4.4-4.5" (like Kegs's) would be nice. That should make for some more fun testing.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2011, 07:38   #234
Jitterbug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 937
Good stuff guys, nice work Rhino.
Jitterbug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 21:20   #235
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I should be resuming the wax tube testing sometime this week. I've basically been living at the hospital, with just a couple of trips to go shoot and see the girlfriend. Off the top of my head, I have four bullets to test: 180gr Winchester PDX1 Bonded, factory loaded CorBon Pow'RBall, stupid-hot hand-loaded Pow'RBall, and a modified 150gr Nosler JHP. Until then, I have the results from a water jug test I did last week of a modified 150gr Nosler JHP.

Water Jug Test: Modified 150gr Nosler JHP

If you remember, the 150gr Nosler JHP failed to open in both water and wax. So, I figured I'd open up the cavity a bit. Well, it worked well. I think my goal of making it resemble a heavier 135gr Nosler JHP was accomplished. The bullet mushroomed perfectly, turning into a pretty flat disc, while shedding a bit of lead. The jacket stayed attached, which surprised me. I'm guessing it had some pretty explosive expansion. I can't wait to see what it does to the wax. I'm thinking it will make a big ol' hole while still penetrating pretty well.

Load used: Starline nickel brass, CCI 300s, 12.9gr Blue Dot, COAL 1.260"
Velocity: not yet chronographed, but will be soon.

Max expansion: .659"
Min expansion: .596"
Retained mass: 95.0gr
Penetration: into 3rd jug, so ~11-16"

Photos:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 10:17   #236
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Water Jug Test: Modified 150gr Nosler JHP
+1 It appears your modification worked well. Good to see. Can't wait to see how the velocity turns out along with the wax stretch cavity.
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 12:27   #237
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
+1 It appears your modification worked well. Good to see. Can't wait to see how the velocity turns out along with the wax stretch cavity.
I'm not sure how I forgot to test these 150gr Nosler JHPs over the chronograph the other day, but I will soon. I still have a bunch of them.

BTW, I'm not sure what good these "modified" tests will do anyone. I'm not sure if they would be applicable to anything. I guess the modified 200gr XTP could be used for hunting if you wanted such a thing, but this bullet would better fill a SD niche, one that most people would not be comfortable with while using a "modified" bullet. So I guess it's purely for fun.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 12:42   #238
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Here is an updated spreadsheet from GTRhino24. The look of it has been improved, and he said you can view things side-by-side (though I'm not so sure how to do it yet, I'm not spreadsheet friendly). At the bottom, there's a bar with different bullet weights. Click on the different tabs to scroll through each table.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hvZmc&hl=en_US
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 15:33   #239
hypnagogue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
BTW, I'm not sure what good these "modified" tests will do anyone. I'm not sure if they would be applicable to anything.
You need to read my Nosler 200 grain thread. My water jug tests show reliable, full expansion and 5 jugs of penetration. If you aren't getting expansion, we need to find out why.
hypnagogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 16:04   #240
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I'd like to see what the hollow point cavity looks like on the 200gr bullet. I'm guessing it's bigger. The ones I shot into wax and water should have been doing around 1350fps.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 16:50   #241
hypnagogue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
Are you seeing bullet nose deformation on chambering? I've seen that on some 135 grain Noslers when I eject them by hand. The edge of one side of the hollow point gets dented by the feed ramp.

I've only noticed this when I use the 22# spring.
hypnagogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 18:28   #242
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnagogue View Post
Are you seeing bullet nose deformation on chambering? I've seen that on some 135 grain Noslers when I eject them by hand. The edge of one side of the hollow point gets dented by the feed ramp.

I've only noticed this when I use the 22# spring.
I've never seen that, and both of the ones I tested were chambered by hand, not after firing, so they should have been good.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 19:47   #243
hypnagogue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I'd like to see what the hollow point cavity looks like on the 200gr bullet. I'm guessing it's bigger.
The three Nosler bullets I have on hand (135, 180, 200) have identical interior diameters -- .120 ID.
Click image for larger version

Name:	135_180_200.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	94.3 KB
ID:	218308

Last edited by hypnagogue; 08-08-2011 at 19:56.. Reason: photo error
hypnagogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 22:36   #244
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnagogue View Post
The three Nosler bullets I have on hand (135, 180, 200) have identical interior diameters -- .120 ID.
Attachment 218308
That's what I thought. Your picture confirms another thing I think might be problematic with the Nosler JHPs. The folds in the copper jacket are not always consistent. Some bullets have been compressed so much, you can barely (if at all) see the folds/grooves. Others, however, have very noticeable grooves. The cavities in the Noslers just seem to be more consistent with lower quality, target type bullets. The only bullets I've ever seen with such a small, squared cavity are the Noslers, Zero JHPs, and Magnus JHPs. The Zero and Magnus bullets are cheap target bullets (but still good and accurate). I just figure that's the niche Nosler is attempting to fill. We need to test each more before making a definite claim either way.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2011, 21:58   #245
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I got a chance to chronograph the 150gr Nosler JHPs the other day:

CE ProChrono Digital, 90*F, 70% Humidity, 495ft ASL, ~10ft from muzzle

G29, Wolff 21lb spring
10 rounds
-1384
-1375
-1430
-1419
-1421
-1406
-1427
-1383
-1430
-1449
High: 1449
Low: 1375
Average: 1412
ES: 74
SD: 24
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 00:02   #246
crsuribe
10mm Auto
 
crsuribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I got a chance to chronograph the 150gr Nosler JHPs the other day:

CE ProChrono Digital, 90*F, 70% Humidity, 495ft ASL, ~10ft from muzzle

G29, Wolff 21lb spring
10 rounds
-1384
-1375
-1430
-1419
-1421
-1406
-1427
-1383
-1430
-1449
High: 1449
Low: 1375
Average: 1412
ES: 74
SD: 24
What recipe? I shoot Nosler 150gr and 180gr. at the range. Mostly the 150's since they're usually in-stock at Cabela's. Don't have a chrony but usually load 12gr's of Blue Dot with the 150gr's for my regular practice load and 13gr's for a fun load... like when I'm blowing up milk jugs full of water and stuff like that.

I'm interested in your speeds although I'm shooting from a 6" barrel. Would like to know how far you seem to have pushed these bullets safely...
__________________
R.I.P William Michael Willard from Swamp Fox Gun Works
R.I.P Chris Kyle -
What a damn shame you're gone!!

*I love USA*
crsuribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 00:58   #247
crsuribe
10mm Auto
 
crsuribe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 1,686
That's weird. My 100% stock Nosler 150gr's over 12gr's of bluedot, used Starline brass and CCI 300's expanded pretty decently when shot into water jugs. The first 2 were filled with just water and the third one was filled with water and news paper. Fully penetrated 2 of the jugs and went all the way into the third one, penetrated through all the wet paper and put a dent on the back wall of that jug.

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

It did shed a bit of material but mostly held together pretty well. Better than the 180gr GD that I tested before and came completely apart.
10mm Reloading Forum


Wonder what the velocity was.

Here's a video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ1IcKJsFLE

It got me covered in that nasty pond water that I had to use because that's all I could find around at the range. Thought they would have a faucet somewhere outside the cabin but they don't.
__________________
R.I.P William Michael Willard from Swamp Fox Gun Works
R.I.P Chris Kyle -
What a damn shame you're gone!!

*I love USA*

Last edited by crsuribe; 08-14-2011 at 01:13..
crsuribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 04:27   #248
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I tested three more 150gr Nosler JHPs on Thursday in water jugs. The load was 11.7gr 800-X, CCI 300s, COAL 1.260". A 10 shot average did 1412fps on the chronograph. The first one opened up really well, and actually over-expanded, 135gr Nosler style. That's to be expected, though, at 1400fps. It blew through two jugs and was found in the third. I THINK the second two failed to expand. The first went through 4 jugs, and was not recovered. I can't imagine it going so far if it opened. Plus, the holes were not as big as the first. The second also made it through all four, and was not recovered. So, I can't say for certainty that the last two didn't expand, but they penetrated a whole lot more than the first, which is usually a sign of not opening. I'll test more.

I was wondering if the inconsistency (if there really is one) is due to the irregular expansion grooves on them. Some of mine have pronounced expansion grooves, while some have such light ones you can barely see them. Others have one or two heavy ones, and then a few light grooves. Some are longer than others. It's just weird.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 05:49   #249
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I am about to start back with the wax testing, I know it's been a while since the last one. I made a new tube to test in. I was getting sick of making cardboard tubes (they take almost an hour, and all the taping is insane), so I made something that's quick, and reusable. The idea to use PVC was GTRhino's idea, I just worked out the design. I cut a 4" diameter PVC pipe in two length-wise, attached the two sides with hinges, and the other side with latches. I used some rubber weatherstripping to seal the two halves, and an PVC end cap to seal one end. I think it will work. My only concern is that the diameter is slightly smaller. The old ones were usually 4.25-4.5". This one is maybe a tad more than 4". I'll fill it up and test the 180gr PDX1 Bonded and Pow'RBall soon, maybe Monday or Tuesday.

Here are some pictures:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 06:37   #250
ModGlock17
Senior Member
 
ModGlock17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lalaland USA
Posts: 2,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Here is an updated spreadsheet from GTRhino24. The look of it has been improved, and he said you can view things side-by-side (though I'm not so sure how to do it yet, I'm not spreadsheet friendly). At the bottom, there's a bar with different bullet weights. Click on the different tabs to scroll through each table.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hvZmc&hl=en_US
Thx for all that you guys, 21Carrier & GTRhino24, are doing. Much appreciated!

You're providing me with a nice reference, a very good one, it is.

Could you also insert a line on the spreadsheet for standard deviation? It tells a story about consistency, therefore implicates accuracy. And for future tests, some indication of accuracy like a simple rating 1 to 5 of your observation of it by looking at POI vs POA.

Awesome work you've done!
ModGlock17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:16.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,058
313 Members
745 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42