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Old 07-30-2011, 05:16   #201
21Carrier
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As I sit here looking back through some of my results, I realize that I am becoming more and more impressed with the 125gn Barnes TAC-XP. There are some bullets that offer more penetration (maybe too much), and some that offer wider wound tracts, but the Barnes seems to be the perfect balance of the two. Also, it might have the largest wound VOLUME, which is quite possibly the most important aspect. Looking back, I really wish I had measured volume by filling each hole with water and measuring it before cutting the tube open. I might have to start doing that. I think it would be a valuable, quick, and easy addition to the testing regimen.

Here's a refresher pic:

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...r/IMG_1212.jpg

It's just amazing to look at the TAC-XP's wound channel in comparison to all the others. The others are so random and messy, while the TAC-XP looks like it would cut the exact same tract each time. Its wound diameter maxed out at 2", which seems to be a good size (above average), yet its penetration was much better than its 125gn of bullet mass would suggest. And what's possibly the most attractive to me is the plug-resistant nature of its massive hollow point cavity. It would seem a bad guy would need to wear 8 or more sweaters to plug the cavity enough to prevent expansion.

What it all adds up to is a bullet that will expand EVERY TIME, do so uniformly and reliably, penetrate sufficiently, and have enough sharp edges to do serious damage. Once I get my chronograph, I think I will buy a few more boxes and some Power Pistol and try to get the velocities up into the 1500-1600fps range from my G29. If I can do that, I think it will make the perfect carry round (pending a new wax tube test, and accuracy/feeding tests).

Just an early morning contemplation.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 07-30-2011 at 05:18..
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:15   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
The early GS were not bonded, it was said that the newer GS are bonded.
I bought a bag of GS's recently and they are definitely NOT bonded. I've tried to get the bonded versions with no luck. They are hard to find. I also think they would offer serious advantages over the non-bonded version.

To 21.... THANKS AGAIN! Great stuff. I'm also very disappointed in the 150gr test results. Too bad. I've heard GREAT things about the Noslers, ACCURACY-wise... but nothing until now about expansion. I guess we now know. I was gonna buy a whole bunch of 150gr Nosler's for multipurpose duty assuming they performed like the 135gr versions ... but since they don't, I'll probably stick with the Rainier 180gr practice loads and the XTP's... (my fav). I'd also really like to get some of the 135gr Sierra's....

BTW, it seems like the cheap, plated Rainier about equaled the results of the Noslers. I'll be testing the Rainier 180gr HP's for accuracy on my next range trip (hopefully Sunday or Monday) and will try and report back my findings.

I just loaded up some 155gr XTP's in once fires cases over a load of 12.0gr 800X. I'm guessing they will run at around 1550fps+ out of my 6" barrel. I'm thinking that is a good all purpose round for what I'd mainly use the load for... varmints, occasionally larger animals on a whim, and occasionally people.

Thanks again for your work here!
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:24   #203
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Hey 21..... I was looking again at the WFNGC results and it hit me: Just like the typical penetrations number conversion you're using where "p" is penetration .... p(t) = p(w) x 1.8 .... Have we taken into consideration that the wound tract DIAMETER is also affected by the difference in media (wax/tissue) density? Basically, I'm referring to the vertical displacement (permanent crush cavity) measurement as opposed to the horizontal displacement (overall penetration) measurement...

For example, the would tract of 1" would really translate to 1.8". That would change how I'd interpret the results of all of the tests ... and especially our estimate of the efficacy of the WFNGC in animal flesh...

That would also mean that the 135gr Nosler is a BOMB waiting to happen.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:29   #204
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Excellent work 21, measuring the volume, this might be a useful?

I'm somewhat surprised by these recent tests, although I think your comment regarding slower velocity is relevant to the performance on the GS. You've created a way to "measure" performance amongst bullets and we're now seeing evidence that some .40 caliber bullets appear to be designed for the 10's slower little brother.

I'm looking forward to the 200 grain Nosler test when you can get your hands on it and I think you might be onto something with the 125 Barnes.

I second the Sierra's as well, they offer several weight in .40 IIRC.

Thanks for your hard work, time and expense.

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Old 07-30-2011, 12:07   #205
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Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Also, I'll have a chronograph in a week or so, and the day I get it, I will be chronographing all the loads I've tested. So we will have the velocity data soon.
I can't wait to see what they end up achieving to put it in perspective with the wax testing.
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Old 07-30-2011, 14:18   #206
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Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
I bought a bag of GS's recently and they are definitely NOT bonded. I've tried to get the bonded versions with no luck. They are hard to find. I also think they would offer serious advantages over the non-bonded version.

To 21.... THANKS AGAIN! Great stuff. I'm also very disappointed in the 150gr test results. Too bad. I've heard GREAT things about the Noslers, ACCURACY-wise... but nothing until now about expansion. I guess we now know. I was gonna buy a whole bunch of 150gr Nosler's for multipurpose duty assuming they performed like the 135gr versions ... but since they don't, I'll probably stick with the Rainier 180gr practice loads and the XTP's... (my fav). I'd also really like to get some of the 135gr Sierra's....

BTW, it seems like the cheap, plated Rainier about equaled the results of the Noslers. I'll be testing the Rainier 180gr HP's for accuracy on my next range trip (hopefully Sunday or Monday) and will try and report back my findings.

I just loaded up some 155gr XTP's in once fires cases over a load of 12.0gr 800X. I'm guessing they will run at around 1550fps+ out of my 6" barrel. I'm thinking that is a good all purpose round for what I'd mainly use the load for... varmints, occasionally larger animals on a whim, and occasionally people.

Thanks again for your work here!
Nick, be careful with that load (155gn XTPs/ 12.0gn 800-X). I went to 12.2gn, but didn't fire them because the 12.0gn load was so hot. I got some Glocksmiles. That was all in cold weather, too. I've gotten Glocksmiles in NEW Starline yellow brass at 11.5gn. I would think the extra barrel length might make the pressures worse (at least it makes sense, and Mudrush seems to agree with that sentiment).

How high up have you chronographed with the 155gn bullets and 800-X? I'm thinking with your 6" barrel, 1550fps will come MUCH sooner than 12.0gn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Hey 21..... I was looking again at the WFNGC results and it hit me: Just like the typical penetrations number conversion you're using where "p" is penetration .... p(t) = p(w) x 1.8 .... Have we taken into consideration that the wound tract DIAMETER is also affected by the difference in media (wax/tissue) density? Basically, I'm referring to the vertical displacement (permanent crush cavity) measurement as opposed to the horizontal displacement (overall penetration) measurement...

For example, the would tract of 1" would really translate to 1.8". That would change how I'd interpret the results of all of the tests ... and especially our estimate of the efficacy of the WFNGC in animal flesh...

That would also mean that the 135gr Nosler is a BOMB waiting to happen.
That is a fair assumption. I've always pretty much assumed that, but I never outright applied the conversion since I don't have any hard data to contrast my findings against. Penetration is easy since ballistic gel records it well. With penetration, I can just make a simple comparison. With diameter, ballistic gel does not capture it, so I can't make a good comparison. That's why I never speculated on it. Also, tissue and BG rebound well, so who knows what amount of permanent cavity will be left.

However, if I WERE to speculate, I think the temporary cavity diameter would actually be MORE than 1.8x what we see in the wax. I think this because not only does the wax seem to offer 1.8x more resistance, but there's also the cardboard tube applying inward pressure. It would seem that that would make it even harder for the bullet to expand the cavity. I would guess that permanent cavity would be about the size of what we see in the wax, due to tissue/gelatin rebound and such.

Also, after watching some slow-motion BG videos this morning on YouTube (especially one of a 10mm 170gn JHP at 1200fps or so), it is obvious that the stretch cavity would be MUCH larger than what we are seeing. With that bullet, the stretch cavity was likely in the 5-6" range. In the wax tube, most JHPs in that weight/speed only leave a cavity of 1.5-2.0". Based on that, I would think a permanent wax cavity of about 2" translates into a temporary cavity of over 6", and a permanent tissue/gel cavity of about 1.5-2" (maybe a little smaller than that). If that is even close, the 135gn Nosler should make a temporary cavity of around 9-12", and a permanent cavity of 3-4". Like you said, BOMB!!!

I really wish I had a high-speed camera, and I'd do some ballistic gel testing. But without the camera, I don't think there's that much to gain besides more accurate penetration depths. Check out "Brass Fetcher" on YouTube. They have a bunch of cool slow-motion BG videos, including the 10mm one I referenced earlier. That should give you a good idea of it.

I wish there was a better way to reliably guesstimate the actual permanent cavity a bullet makes, but I think we would be assuming more than we should to try to apply what we get from these wax tests.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 07-30-2011 at 14:21..
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Old 07-30-2011, 14:49   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Nick, be careful with that load (155gn XTPs/ 12.0gn 800-X). I went to 12.2gn, but didn't fire them because the 12.0gn load was so hot. I got some Glocksmiles. That was all in cold weather, too. I've gotten Glocksmiles in NEW Starline yellow brass at 11.5gn. I would think the extra barrel length might make the pressures worse (at least it makes sense, and Mudrush seems to agree with that sentiment).

How high up have you chronographed with the 155gn bullets and 800-X? I'm thinking with your 6" barrel, 1550fps will come MUCH sooner than 12.0gn.
Thanks and interesting ... Mike McNett lists the following load from his 6" KKM

155gr GDHP 12.3gr 800X - 1465fps (G20), 1578fps (6"KKM)

Of course, thats a GD, which means the bullet is a bit shorter than the XTP... Hornady lists a max load at 11.5gr for the 155gr XTP over 800X.

Also, Mudrush has mentioned that the lighter bullets are out of the barrel so quickly that they aren't quite as susceptible of overpressure for that reason.

In addition, you are firing from a stock Glock 29 barrel whereas I'm firing from a ramped, fully supported Fusion barrel.

I will be loading up some 155's at 11.4, 11.6, and 11.8 in addition to the 12.0 grain loads. We'll see how it turns out, velocity-wise.
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Old 07-30-2011, 19:38   #208
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Thanks and interesting ... Mike McNett lists the following load from his 6" KKM

155gr GDHP 12.3gr 800X - 1465fps (G20), 1578fps (6"KKM)

Of course, thats a GD, which means the bullet is a bit shorter than the XTP... Hornady lists a max load at 11.5gr for the 155gr XTP over 800X.

Also, Mudrush has mentioned that the lighter bullets are out of the barrel so quickly that they aren't quite as susceptible of overpressure for that reason.

In addition, you are firing from a stock Glock 29 barrel whereas I'm firing from a ramped, fully supported Fusion barrel.

I will be loading up some 155's at 11.4, 11.6, and 11.8 in addition to the 12.0 grain loads. We'll see how it turns out, velocity-wise.
Definitely let us know what the velocity was. I bet that thing is gonna be scorching.
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Old 07-30-2011, 20:36   #209
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Definitely let us know what the velocity was. I bet that thing is gonna be scorching.
You know I will, bro.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:17   #210
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Well, I FINALLY ordered a chronograph, and the tracking info says it will be here tomorrow! Unfortunately, I'm going to be out of town until tomorrow night, so it looks like the first tests will have to wait until Thursday or so. I got a Competition Electronics ProChrono. As soon as it gets here and I have a chance to get out to my shooting venue, I will test all of the wax tube loads. Obviously, I will test function first, and figure out how to use it well before doing the wax tube loads. I only have a few of some of the bullets, so I don't want to waste them if I set it up incorrectly. Anyway, stay tuned, I'll post velocity results of all of the loads in the wax tube thread as soon as I have them.

Also, the next wax tube test will be a 180gn Winchester PDX1 Bonded bullet. I got a few from GTRhino24, and one that he loaded did really well in water (I think his was loaded with 10.5gn of Blue Dot, fired from G29). It looked amazingly similar to a Gold Dot, but maybe even tougher. I'm not sure if I even have a second 10mm bullet to test alongside it, so I might be doing a .45ACP. If so, it will be one of three commercial hollow points that I have on hand: 185gn CorBon DPX (Barnes TAC-XP), 165gn CorBon Pow'RBall, or 230gn Hornady TAP (I am pretty sure it's an XTP). I will likely do the DPX first, but we will see. If I have another 10mm round that I haven't yet tested, I'll do it first.

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Old 08-02-2011, 11:21   #211
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Did you ever do a 180 XTP test ??
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:29   #212
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Sounds good 21, I've been considering the same Chrono, it will be make the wax testing even more interesting.
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Old 08-02-2011, 14:50   #213
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Did you ever do a 180 XTP test ??
Yeah, I did. I think it's on page 2 or 3. It was pretty early. If I remember correctly, it was the one where I missed the tube (well, missed center), then used the other end of the tube with a milder 180gn XTP. I'll look back through my info, and if I haven't done it, I'll do it.
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:43   #214
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Hey, guys. Well, I just had some pretty tough stuff go down in my life, and after much debate, I think I should share it. I wasn't so sure at first, but I have decided we can all benefit from it. I didn't really want to devote a thread to it, and I figured this was my thread, so I will temporarily hijack it. I must warn you, this will likely be quite long. And before the inevitable starts (because I know you are all nice guys), I'm not looking for sympathy, pity, or well-wishing. I know everyone will be sympathetic, but don't feel obligated to reply, there's no need, and I don't want to permanently alter the course of this thread. I know you all will be hoping for the best, as I would if the tables were turned. I just feel this message is too important not to share.

Some brief background: My father is a cardiologist (heart doctor) here in Birmingham, AL. He is 57 years old, 6'8", ~265lbs., and what I would consider a "healthy" build. He is always very active, and in good shape for his age. He has regular check-ups and such as he knows the statistics on heart disease. In the last 3 weeks he had a full work-up of cardiac tests done by one of his partners, and in the last 4 days he visited his general practitioner for a physical/bloodwork. All of which he passed with a clean bill of health. He takes the typically prescribed medicines for a man of his age (Lipitor, Aspirin, maybe 1 or 2 others). Basically, he's done everything right.

Today, while driving to visit my girlfriend and her family about an hour south of my home, I received the call we all pray will never come. I got a nebulous call from one of his partners telling me he had "collapsed" at work, and a code was called. She said, "It doesn't look good." I asked the only question I could think of, "Is he still alive?" She told me she didn't know, but his heart had stopped, he was intubated (tube in airway), and rushed to the ER. She assured me everything was being done, but I should call whoever I needed, and I should come right away. Needless to say, I turned and burned, as they say, calling my family as I went.

According to the security camera footage (which I didn't personally see, nor do I want to), he had just reentered the hospital after making his weekly rounds in Oneonta, AL. He makes a trip to a hospital there every Tuesday. As he walked into the hospital (back, physician's entrance), he looked a bit woozy, reached for the wall to support himself, then fell backwards, "like a log". By the time he hit the ground, his heart had stopped. He split his head open during the fall, and according to the video, was found about 3 minutes later. CPR was started approximately 4-5 minutes after he collapsed.

After several minutes of work, shallow breathing and a weak pulse was regained, and he was rushed to the CCU (cardiac care unit). After being intubated, he was rushed to the catheterization lab, then for a CT scan. By the time I got there, he was being returned to the CCU. So far, he has survived the incident, thanks to the fact that it occurred in the hospital. However, he is not even close to being out of the woods. Because his brain was without oxygen for several minutes, we don't yet know if he has much or any brain function left. He has been placed into a medically induced sleep (coma), and his body temperature lowered to hypothermic levels. As a side note, this procedure, known as therapeutic hypothermia, just began being used at his hospital in the last month or so. My dad was actually the main proponent that pushed for this technology to be implemented there. Ironically, it may be his efforts to bring this procedure to his hospital that save his life. It lowers your body temperature, and, thus, your metabolic rate and oxygen needs in an effort to reduce brain damage after a heart attack or stroke. He will be kept in this state for the next 24 hours, then will be warmed back up, and brought out of the "coma". It won't be until then that we will know whether he has any remaining brain function. His pupils are responsive, so it looks better than nothing.

The exact cause has not been discovered. The catheterization showed no significant coronary artery blockages that would indicate a severe heart attack. The CT scan, while somewhat inconclusive due to two large metal plates from a childhood ice-cream truck riding accident, looked decent, really neither good nor bad. The best guess is that he had a heart arrhythmia (where your heart loses it's natural rhythm) and subsequently stopped.

I am fine, as is my family. My brothers and I have had wonderful relationships with my dad, so if things don't work out, we will be ok. We will miss him, but we have more good memories with him than any other children I know of our generation.

Here is the point I want to get across. Several years ago, my father and I were in our front yard talking about heart attacks after one of his partners died while driving home from his lake house. Here are the HORRIBLY disturbing statistics for men. Some may be slightly off, but they are reasonably accurate.

-Of the men who have heart disease, about 25% will die at the first sign of heart problems. This means that these men didn't even KNOW they had heart disease. Their first warning was death.
-For men that suffer sudden arrests (a sudden heart stoppage that will not be naturally reversed without assistance, called a "widowmaker" in the business), 75% will never take another breath. They will die on the spot, likely never even knowing what happened. Only 10-25% will ever reclaim a normal life. My dad falls in this category. Hopefully, assistance was given fast enough that irreversible brain damage did not occur.
-Heart disease is the NUMBER ONE killer in our country. TWENTY-FIVE percent of the deaths in our country are directly related to heart disease.

If these things do not disturb you, you are not awake. Please have yourselves checked every 6 months to 1 year over the age of 40 (maybe younger). This is absolutely ridiculous that people are dropping like flies. Many of these deaths can be prevented. A simple stress test, and/or catheterization could save your life, and prevent you from dropping dead one day while walking to work like my dad almost did today.

Furthermore, do not be naive and think you are above this. Even my dad, who did EVERYTHING right, and is renowned as one of the best in his field was not able to beat a heart attack. No one is beyond its reach. Most of you carry a gun to protect yourselves and family from potential killers, but how many of you have failed to get checked for heart disease? How many of you have failed to plan ahead for such a disaster because you are only 45? My neighbor (a 43 year old, anesthesiologist, runner, in great shape) dropped dead in his kitchen 11 years ago from a heart attack. He didn't even know he had heart disease. He left a wife and two kids. Is your life insurance policy up to date? Is it enough?

I know all of this is harsh, and a reality check, but if I could make one person get checked, it was worth the few minutes it took to type this. I'm sick of hearing of people dying because of largely preventable disease. Not all heart disease can be predicted or prevented (like in my dad's case), and that's why it's important to plan ahead for your family. Don't become a statistic. Read up on the warning signs and symptoms of a heart attack, and have a plan in place (just like many of you do for SHTF situations). My neighbor (again, a DOCTOR) felt bad, felt like he had heartburn, and instead of erring on the side of caution, and calling an ambulance, he went to the kitchen for water. He never came back. My dad ran down there in the middle of the night to try to save him, but it was too late.

Don't be so embarrassed that you ignore the warning signs. It is better to be in a hospital bed with a doctor telling you it's only heartburn, than to be lying on a slab in the morgue with your loved ones left alone.

Ok, so that's my message. Sorry to put a damper on the thread, but I hope it helps someone. Again, I know you all wish the best for my dad, and I appreciate all the thoughts, wishes, and prayers in advance. Let's get back to the 10mm bullet testing. Obviously, this will put a slight delay in my chronograph data, but I'll get out there soon. It will be a good way to get my mind off of all of this. Stay safe everyone, and just don't forget that your most likely enemy is right there in your chest. Don't overlook it.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-03-2011 at 03:24..
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Old 08-03-2011, 03:54   #215
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Hope verything goes well with your father, man. Tough stuff, indeed.
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Old 08-03-2011, 13:50   #216
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21Carrier,

Being a Paramedic I am quite familiar with cardiac issues but I must tell you that was one of the most poignant, considerate and well intentioned posts I have read on any forum. Given the stressful and potentially tragic circumstances you find yourself in you must be commended on your thoughtfulness and compassion for others.

For what it's worth my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family; you are obviously good people and deserve whatever benevolence and good hope that comes your way. Best wishes for your dad.

-Ct
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Old 08-03-2011, 16:37   #217
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Thanks, guys, for your thoughts and prayers. We just received word from the neurologist that the EEG done this morning looks promising. He said they usually either look really bad or really good, and my dad's is bordering on really good. He saw some response. We still won't know for sure until later tomorrow afternoon/night when he will be warmed up from hypothermia and be eased off the sleep-inducing drugs. I think he's going to pull through.

Anyway, getting back to the testing (and since I'm sitting at the hospital bored as hell), I got my chronograph today, and I prepared to mix up several of each load I have tested in the wax tubes. Hopefully, I can get them all done by the weekend. The only problem is the limited supply I have of some of the bullets, so the chronograph results will be statistically challenged. For instance, I only have one 165gn Gold Dot, 1 or 2 165gn Golden Saber, 2-3 200gn WFNGC, and ZERO 200gn Black Talons. Hopefully, the results will at least give us SOME idea of velocity. Others, like the Barnes, XTPs, and Silvertips, I have plenty.

Also, I did some tinkering with the 150gn Nosler JHP and got some really good results in water jugs. I drilled out the hollow point to basically mirror the 135gn Sierra JHP. I kept the depth unchanged, but it's about 40% wider. The bullet did great in water jugs, shedding the nose in violent expansion, while the core flattened out nicely, and stayed together.

I am going to have to test it alongside the 180gn PDX1 Bonded. I'm hoping it will perform this time. One thing I have noticed about the Nosler JHPs that seems very different than almost all other JHPs is that the cavity has straight sides. I don't think that's ideal. The 135gn Sierra, and almost all other good JHPs have angled sides that give it a conical shape. I think this helps the backward pressure of the wax/water/tissue/gelatin get redirected into a partial outward pressure, helping to open the bullet. I am hoping that the large volume (and subsequent weakening of the cavity's walls) of my modified 150gn Nosler JHP will be enough to get it to open. We will see.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-03-2011 at 16:42..
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Old 08-03-2011, 17:43   #218
Jitterbug
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I'll keep your Dad in my thoughts and prayers 21, sorry to hear about this.
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Old 08-03-2011, 20:54   #219
_The_Shadow
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Many prayers for you father my friend and the blessing from the good lord for his speedy recovery!
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:18   #220
21Carrier
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and prayers. Things are looking better, but it's still not over yet. It will be another couple of days before they can fully wake him up, and we really get a definite sense of his condition.

Anyway, I have some chronograph results!!! I was unpleasantly surprised by many of them (after looking back, most weren't as bad as I first thought), and shocked by one or two. So, here they are, in order of the testing. These are MOST of the bullets/loads I have tested through the course of the wax tube testing. Some are missing either due to me not having any of the bullets, or whatever, but I'll get more of each and test further in the future. Some only have small sample sizes, but I tested as many as I had or could spare.

By the way, I was REALLY impressed with the chronograph. It had been sprinkling, it was very overcast, nearing sunset, and the thing worked beautifully. The only errors were at the very end when GTRhino24 shot some of his factory CorBon 135gn JHPs (Sierra bullets). He got 3 errors in a row. But that was it. Also, all of this was done with the BROKEN locking block in my gun. Midway sent me the wrong locking block (looked to be from a G17, maybe. Large, but not beefy like G20/21). I was mad, and decided to test anyway. The gun was consistently slow to return to battery, and feeding was dismal with several jams, but after testing an identical load through GTRhino24's G29, the velocity data was the same, so velocity should be unaffected by the locking block.

For ALL loads, I used CCI 300 primers, Starline brass, and a COAL of 1.260" unless otherwise noted. All charges were hand-weighed, but in a hurry, so that may account for some of the large extreme spreads. Also, this is listed in the order they were fired, and the order they were tested in the wax tubes (except for a few omissions like the 180gr XTP which I don't have now). I used the 17lb spring until halfway through the 175gr Silvertip test, then switched to the 21lb spring. I will include a notation to show where I changed springs, but did not see a difference in velocity. Also, I was in a hurry (shooting during a break in the rain) so I forgot to separate all the strings properly, so the data are being calculated by me, not the chrono. I may omit standard deviation for now, just to get the data up.

Chronograph: Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital
Conditions: 82*F, 81% humidity, 6:00pm
Elevation: 495' above sea level
Distance: ~10ft.

Hornady 155gr XTP/12.9gr Blue Dot:
10 rounds
-1333
-1375
-1318
-1341
-1314
-1324
-1307
-1357
-1402
-1294
High: 1402
Low: 1294
Average: 1336.5
ES: 108
Muzzle Energy: 615fpe
I was expecting about 1350fps from this load, so 1337 is pretty good.

Winchester 175gr Silvertip/10.3gr 800-X:
10 rounds
-1224
-1246
-1230
-1259
Here is where I switched to the 21lb spring. There doesn't seem to be a large difference, if any.
-1221
-1267
-1255
-1266
-1239
-1218
High: 1267
Low: 1218
Average: 1242.5
ES: 49
Muzzle Energy: 600fpe
I am fairly impressed with this load. I feel like 1243fps for a 175gr bullet in a 3.78" barrel is pretty good. This is also about what I had expected.

Hornady 200gr XTP/8.7gr 800-X:
10 rounds
-1135
-1130
-1113
-1108
-1087
-1119
-1135
-1116
-1119
-1079
High: 1135 (2 at this velocity)
Low: 1079
Average: 1114.1
ES: 56
Muzzle Energy: 551fpe
I was pleased with this load. I was hoping for around 1125fps.

Hornady 200gr XTP/9.0gr 800-X:
10 rounds
-1123
-1131
-1141
-1099
-1122
-1136
-1116
-1145
-1141
-1087
High: 1145
Low: 1087
Average: 1124.1
ES: 58
Muzzle Energy: 561fpe
I was slightly disappointed in this load. I was hoping for 1150fps. Also, I was surprised that I only gained 10fps over the 8.7gr load. I guess the extra powder is not being burned in the short G29 barrel. Overall, good 200gn load.

Speer 180gr Gold Dot HP/10.3gr 800-X:
10 rounds
-1295
-1222
-1289
-1239
-1256
-1273
-1300
-1233
-1246
-1240
High: 1300
Low: 1222
Average: 1259.3
ES: 78
Muzzle Energy: 633fpe
I was surprised by this load, and pleased with the velocity. It surpassed the lighter 175gr Silvertips in velocity, which is an interesting trend that I'm seeing. You will also see that the 155gr Silvertips lost to the 155gr XTPs despite being loaded hotter. It makes me wonder if the silver coating causes more drag.

Speer 165gr Gold Dot HP/11.2gr 800-X:
1 round
-1429!!!
High:1429
Low: 1429
Average: 1429
ES: Umm . . . Zero
Muzzle Energy: 748fpe
WOW! Now, before I go and get all excited, this was ONE ROUND. So, it's OBVIOUSLY statistically irrelevant. However, the 165gr Golden Saber, loaded with the same charge (and only one shot) had about the same velocity. So, I'm hoping this is correct. We will see in the future, but take it for what it's worth.

Barnes 125gr TAC-XP/8.6gr Unique:
***COAL: 1.250"***
7 rounds
-1293
-1297
-1298
-1267
-1293
-1283
-1290
High: 1298
Low: 1267
Average: 1288.7
ES: 31
Muzzle Energy: 460fpe
I was VERY disappointed in this load. I knew it felt anemic, but damn! Barnes listed 1485fps for 8.4gr Unique in a 5" barrel, so I was expecting maybe 1350-1375fps. I was really HOPING for 1400fps. This is .40S&W territory. I have about 70 of these bullets, and will be working up a hot Power Pistol load soon (PP is the best powder for them according to Barnes). I had used Unique because it was 2nd fastest, and I had it. If I could get 1500-1600fps out of this bullet, I would be elated. I was impressed with the low ES, and consistency of Unique, however.

Nosler 135gr JHP/13.0gr 800-X:
6 rounds
-1626
-1559
-1513
-1532
-1600
-1534
High: 1626
Low: 1513
Average: 1560.6
ES: 113
Muzzle Energy: 729fpe
Overall, I am impressed. I was expecting and hoping for closer to 1600fps, but that's a stout load. Now, if I can just get a dang box of them (been on backorder for a month and a half). The ES is DISMAL. I will have to work on that, but it may be due to the fact that I was loading quickly to beat sunset. With 729fpe on tap, it explains the fist sized wound channel it created.

Winchester 155gr Silvertip/13.2gr Blue Dot:
5 rounds
-1304
-1254
-1269
-1268
-1261
High: 1304
Low: 1254
Average: 1271.2
ES: 50
Muzzle Energy: 556fpe
I am VERY disappointed in this load. I was expecting close to 1400fps. Maybe I was just being overly optimistic, but the 155gr XTP load, with .3gr less powder produced 65fps more. I'm not sure if that is due to the bullet, or the load. Maybe this is just the point at which Blue Dot falls off. Trust me, this will be investigated.

Winchester 155gr Silvertip/11.8gr 800-X:
5 rounds
-1361
-1318
-1309
-1300
-1300
High: 1361
Low: 1300 (2 shots at this velocity)
Average: 1317.6
ES: 61
Muzzle Energy: 598fpe
I expected this load to be much faster. This load feels MUCH hotter than the 155gr XTP/12.9gr BD load, yet is slower. I think the Silvertips are limiting the velocity due to their jacket coating. Of course, this assertion will require testing, but I feel it may be true. I think this load with XTPs will hit 1400fps+. Both 155gr (Silvertip and XTP) bullets are .550" long, just for reference.

Factory CorBon 135gr JHP (Sierra JHP) Thanks to GTRhino for sacrificing many of his carry rounds for this wax test/chrono data!
***Fired from GTRhino's G29, not mine***
3 rounds (6 were fired, but only 3 registered)
-1240
-1259
-1248
High: 1259
Low: 1240
Average: 1249
ES: 19
Muzzle Energy: 468fpe
This load is rated at 1400fps (likely with a 5" barrel), so it's a little slow. Perhaps 1249fps is acceptable with the shorter barrel.

Rainier 180gr Plated HP/9.7gr 800-X:
4 rounds
-1271
-1235
-1171
-1228
High: 1271
Low: 1171
Average: 1226.3
ES: 100
Muzzle Energy: 601fpe
I am pleasantly surprised by this load. It nearly equalled the 175gr Silvertip and 180gr GDHP with .6gr less powder. Maybe the softer, plated bullet helped seal the bore better. I think the large ES shows that the plating was nearing it's maximum velocity.

Remington 165gr Golden Saber/11.2gr 800-X:
1 round
-1397
High: 1397
Low: 1397
Average: 1397
ES: 0
Muzzle Energy:715fpe
Again, while I know this is statistically irrelevant, it nearly matches the velocity for the 165gr GDHP, so it helps me believe it's not TOTAL crap. I'm thinking this bullet weight may be the sweet spot for 800-X. It seems to be working well. 1400fps is MOVING for a 165gr bullet, especially out of a 3.78" barrel. I can't wait to back this data up further.

Double Tap 200gr WFNGC/9.0gr 800-X:
***This load was NOT used in the wax tube. I used 9.3gr in the wax (result for it is below), but I had loaded 2 @ 9.0gr, and 3 @ 9.3gr of the 5 bullets NickE10mm sent me, and only had one of each left. I was afraid pulling this bullet would ruin the GC/bullet, so I just fired it as it was.***
***COAL: 1.252"***
1 round
-1168
High: 1168
Low: 1168
Average: 1168
ES: 0
Muzzle Energy: 606fpe
I was expecting about 1150, so this is good, if irrelevant.

Double Tap 200gr WFNGC/9.3gr 800-X:
***COAL: 1.252"***
1 round
-1166
High: 1166
Low: 1166
Average: 1166
ES: 0
Muzzle Energy: 604fpe
If one shot meant anything, I would be surprised by the loss of 2fps with .3gr more powder, but I suspect this is just a consequence of the small sample size. This is the load that was used in the wax tube.

Overall, I am REALLY glad to finally get this stuff up. This wax tube thread was SORELY in need of velocity data. I'm also really glad to get some stock G29 data up. It seems most of the data here is either out of the longer G20, or G20/29 with a longer than stock barrel. Thanks to everyone for bearing with me through all of this. Special thanks to Shadow, NickE10mm, and GTRhino24 for providing me with bullets to test. Also, GTRhino24 helped me do lots of the testing. He wrote down all the velocity data as I was shooting, since I was new to the chronograph, and didn't want to lose the data somehow. I wanted to make sure I had a hard copy.

Shadow, I will chrono your bullets on my next range trip, and I still plan to repeat the 10mm 156gr Devastator test. I had them in a different place, and I forgot to load some of them up for testing today. The next tests will likely be GTRhino's 180gr Winchester PDX1 Bonded, both in wax and over the chrono (damn, it feels good to say that!), and my modified 150gr Nosler JHP.

We did some testing of a few loads through GTRhino's G29, but only one of them was used in the wax tube, so I'll only put it up here. Here's that data:

Hornady 200gr XTP/8.7gr 800-X:
***Fired from GTRhino's G29***
5 rounds
-1114
-1113
-1103
-1104
-1115
High: 1115
Low: 1103
Average: 1109.8
ES: 12
Muzzle Energy: 547fpe
As you can see, our two guns provided pretty similar results. This load averaged 1114fps out of my gun, so only 4fps difference. I loaded these rounds, so all were loaded on the same scale.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-05-2011 at 02:45..
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