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Old 08-05-2011, 05:57   #221
nickE10mm
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You are most welcome for the bullets.... AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR DATA! This thread is a fantastic resource for all things 10mm bullets. Excellent work, sir.

Now that you have a chrono, you can really start the hands-on process of working loads up and using the chrono data to ascertain "where you're at" on the power and pressure scale while, at the same time, working up loads for the best accuracy in your pistol. A turning point
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:12   #222
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Excellent work guys, great job!

If I remember correctly, (may not) Kegs ran into a wall with the 800x loads, where an increase in powder did not result in a velocity increase...to a point, then it picked up again.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:36   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
Now that you have a chrono, you can really start the hands-on process of working loads up and using the chrono data to ascertain "where you're at" on the power and pressure scale while, at the same time, working up loads for the best accuracy in your pistol. A turning point
I know, it's like this amazing door has opened. It's almost as profound, interesting and fun as reloading in itself. Velocity is such a crucial piece of the puzzle, especially to a reloader. I've heard it said many times, and in different ways, but reloading without velocity data, or without a chronograph, is loading without a purpose. Even though what I just posted is a huge chunk of data, it's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'll go back and chrono every load in my load book. And I'll redo work-ups to see if there's any need to push as far as I had. Like Jitterbug said, sometimes you run into a wall, and more powder does not equal more velocity. I can't wait to shoot some more, but now I'm waiting on the dang locking block.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:51   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I know, it's like this amazing door has opened. It's almost as profound, interesting and fun as reloading in itself. Velocity is such a crucial piece of the puzzle, especially to a reloader. I've heard it said many times, and in different ways, but reloading without velocity data, or without a chronograph, is loading without a purpose. Even though what I just posted is a huge chunk of data, it's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'll go back and chrono every load in my load book. And I'll redo work-ups to see if there's any need to push as far as I had. Like Jitterbug said, sometimes you run into a wall, and more powder does not equal more velocity. I can't wait to shoot some more, but now I'm waiting on the dang locking block.
Yep....

I'm thinking about picking one or two loads (probably 180 and 200gr XTP) and stepping back a grain or so and making 5-10 of each charge, stepping up by .2gr and testing for accuracy. It doesn't matter how much power a load has if its not accurate. I would take a 200gr XTP at 1100 that hits dead center over a 200gr XTP at 1300 that makes a 6" group at the same range.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:24   #225
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I agree. When I first started loading 10mm, I was gunning for pure velocity. I couldn't have cared less about accuracy or control. Well, if my targets looked like a shotgun spread with keyholing, I would have worried, but even recoil was not a concern. Then I realized that trading 50fps for accuracy and control is WELL worth it. I guess 10mm kind of takes you by storm, and it takes a little while to come back to your senses.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:27   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
...I guess 10mm kind of takes you by storm, and it takes a little while to come back to your senses.
Couldnt have said it better myself.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:24   #227
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Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.

Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:29   #228
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Quote:
Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.
Yep, Power Pistol must be a bit faster powder than BD.

Quote:
Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
Yes sir!
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Old 08-05-2011, 09:17   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
Carrier, I see you where enjoying you chronograph, glad you were able to post the numbers. Much Thanks for sharing!
The numbers from the G-29 with the factory length short barrels can be as much as 100+ fps lower than a 5" barrel, with most being around 50 to 60 fps less from my observations.

Also it looks like you saw some loads where more powder didn't provide any more velocity, this is another issue that will differ between the shorter barrels vs. the longer barrels. Looking for a sweet spot is easier than working blindly. I was supprised when I compared Blue Dot against Power Pistol, both a 1200 fps load in the 5" barrel but...

200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1170 fps – 1228 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1090 fps – 1116 fps Tested 1076
200gr Hornady XTP 10.5grs. Blue Dot 1060 fps – 1085 fps Tested Glock 29

200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1170 fps – 1200 fps Tested 1006
200gr Hornady XTP 8.0grs. PowerPistol 1080 fps – 1127 fps Tested Glock 29

I see many people getting caught up in the top velocity numbers, myself included, as we all want more bang for our buck! But finding a good balance between velocity and accuracy that the gun is capable of and reliability is very satisfing.

Heck the whole shooting experience has taken us all by storm, as we sit on cloud 10mm, not cloud 9mm!
That's good to know. It seems like Power Pistol does better in the short barrels than Blue Dot. I'm anxious to start testing Longshot. I really liked the accuracy and feel of the loads I shot of it. I just bought my first jugs of PP and Longshot, so I'll be playing with them soon.

I just can't imagine having so much fun with another caliber. It just seems like all other calibers are so boring. Like .45ACP, it's either 185gr or 230gr. Really light load, or maximum (which is basically like Winchester White Box), and there's really not much room in between them for a medium load. My .45ACP load book is all of 2 pages with one powder: Unique.

My 10mm book is like 15-20. With 10mm I've loaded 7 different weights of bullets, I have 6 on hand, I have 5 powders to choose from (Unique, BD, PP, 800-X, Longshot), and you can load it to .40S&W level, medium, hot, and nuclear. When I go to the range, I have ONE flavor of .45ACP, and that's usually 230gr FMJ with about 6.3gr of Unique. But THEN, I usually have at least SIX different loads in 10mm, and always a box or two of different SD hollow points in case I get frisky and want to blow up some water jugs. Variety is the spice of life, as they say, and 10mm certainly provides it.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:06   #230
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Guys, GTRhino24 made an awesome spreadsheet of all of the data contained within this thread. It is an excel document, and has every bit of pertinent info from the whole thread. It is arranged so that each row is a bullet manufacturer, then with each bullet weight in a different column. Each box has all of the velocity info, high, low, es, average, wax penetration, expansion, etc. Check it out. We will continue to add onto it as more tests are done. This is definitely the best way to organize and view the data.

Let me know if the link below doesn't work:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hJQ1E&hl=en_US

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-05-2011 at 10:12..
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:46   #231
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GTRhino24, nicely done!
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:15   #232
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Thank you kindly. It's the least I can do since 21Carrier is doing a lot of the legwork. If you think of more fields that would be helpful, let me know. Right now, we only have G29 w/ stock barrel data, but as tests are done with other barrels/guns, I will add detail to break that out. I picked up some Pow'R Ball 10mm SD ammo today and pulled some of those to test. I'm really curious to see how that ball affects expansion in the wax.
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Old 08-05-2011, 16:13   #233
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I am also curious about the Pow'RBall load. I know I've shot some into water jugs and they usually blow apart pretty good. I've tested them in water in .45ACP (wax tube test coming in the future), 10mm, and .357Sig. They all seem to do pretty well, but I doubt penetration is going to be mind-blowing. I'm expecting them to be more like the 135gr Noslers.

GTRhino, since you have the aftermarket G20 barrel, I'm going to order an extended Storm Lake or KKM barrel for the G29 sometime soon. I'm thinking something around 4.4-4.5" (like Kegs's) would be nice. That should make for some more fun testing.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:38   #234
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Good stuff guys, nice work Rhino.
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Old 08-07-2011, 21:20   #235
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I should be resuming the wax tube testing sometime this week. I've basically been living at the hospital, with just a couple of trips to go shoot and see the girlfriend. Off the top of my head, I have four bullets to test: 180gr Winchester PDX1 Bonded, factory loaded CorBon Pow'RBall, stupid-hot hand-loaded Pow'RBall, and a modified 150gr Nosler JHP. Until then, I have the results from a water jug test I did last week of a modified 150gr Nosler JHP.

Water Jug Test: Modified 150gr Nosler JHP

If you remember, the 150gr Nosler JHP failed to open in both water and wax. So, I figured I'd open up the cavity a bit. Well, it worked well. I think my goal of making it resemble a heavier 135gr Nosler JHP was accomplished. The bullet mushroomed perfectly, turning into a pretty flat disc, while shedding a bit of lead. The jacket stayed attached, which surprised me. I'm guessing it had some pretty explosive expansion. I can't wait to see what it does to the wax. I'm thinking it will make a big ol' hole while still penetrating pretty well.

Load used: Starline nickel brass, CCI 300s, 12.9gr Blue Dot, COAL 1.260"
Velocity: not yet chronographed, but will be soon.

Max expansion: .659"
Min expansion: .596"
Retained mass: 95.0gr
Penetration: into 3rd jug, so ~11-16"

Photos:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:17   #236
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Water Jug Test: Modified 150gr Nosler JHP
+1 It appears your modification worked well. Good to see. Can't wait to see how the velocity turns out along with the wax stretch cavity.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:27   #237
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+1 It appears your modification worked well. Good to see. Can't wait to see how the velocity turns out along with the wax stretch cavity.
I'm not sure how I forgot to test these 150gr Nosler JHPs over the chronograph the other day, but I will soon. I still have a bunch of them.

BTW, I'm not sure what good these "modified" tests will do anyone. I'm not sure if they would be applicable to anything. I guess the modified 200gr XTP could be used for hunting if you wanted such a thing, but this bullet would better fill a SD niche, one that most people would not be comfortable with while using a "modified" bullet. So I guess it's purely for fun.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:42   #238
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Here is an updated spreadsheet from GTRhino24. The look of it has been improved, and he said you can view things side-by-side (though I'm not so sure how to do it yet, I'm not spreadsheet friendly). At the bottom, there's a bar with different bullet weights. Click on the different tabs to scroll through each table.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hvZmc&hl=en_US
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Old 08-08-2011, 15:33   #239
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BTW, I'm not sure what good these "modified" tests will do anyone. I'm not sure if they would be applicable to anything.
You need to read my Nosler 200 grain thread. My water jug tests show reliable, full expansion and 5 jugs of penetration. If you aren't getting expansion, we need to find out why.
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Old 08-08-2011, 16:04   #240
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I'd like to see what the hollow point cavity looks like on the 200gr bullet. I'm guessing it's bigger. The ones I shot into wax and water should have been doing around 1350fps.
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