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Old 08-19-2011, 09:09   #261
21Carrier
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I loaded up some of the 155gr Gold Dots last night. I might try to chronograph/water jug test some today. I loaded 11 each of some max (or near max) 800-X, Blue Dot, Longshot, and Power Pistol loads. I figure I'll test 10 of each load through the chrono, and one of each in water jugs.

All the pictures I had seen of them at .40S&W speeds made them look really different than the 165gr GDHPs (which I really like). However, I found a test some guy did at THR with one at around 1450fps, and it looked great. He called it a failure, but I call it awesome. It over-expanded, but barely. It was still all together, was about 1" in diameter, and looked very nasty. Most people forget that a bullet is not going to expand as well in tissue as water. So, if that bullet barely over-expanded in water, it should be perfect in tissue. Also, after looking at the 155gr and 165gr Gold Dots side-by-side, I'm fairly certain they are the same bullet, just shorter (and BARELY shorter). They look identical.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:12   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
... Most people forget that a bullet is not going to expand as well in tissue as water. So, if that bullet barely over-expanded in water, it should be perfect in tissue. Also, after looking at the 155gr and 165gr Gold Dots side-by-side, I'm fairly certain they are the same bullet, just shorter (and BARELY shorter). They look identical.
I tend to agree about the overexpansion issue ... a little overexpansion in water just means its an optimal velocity for everything else, including shots that impact at longer distances where the striking velocity is lower.

As for the difference in 165 vs 155 GD being almost nil (aside from 10gr), I also tend to agree. They are both great bullets.
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Old 08-19-2011, 10:48   #263
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BTW... I was in the store the other day and saw this:

10mm Reloading Forum

Bet you can figure out the first thing that popped into my head.... hehe
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:02   #264
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Hahaha, that's hilarious. I was sitting here staring at that picture like, "What the hell is he talking about? Did he post the wrong picture?" Then it hit me. They are free, right? If so, it would be empty real quick.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:40   #265
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Those 165s blossom pretty nicely, don't they? I have found that about 1335 fps is a good speed for them overall. That is my carry load for in town.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:20   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
Hahaha, that's hilarious. I was sitting here staring at that picture like, "What the hell is he talking about? Did he post the wrong picture?" Then it hit me. They are free, right? If so, it would be empty real quick.
Haha!

Actually I think they WERE free but its kinda like a newspaper bin: the honor system. I ain't gonna do 'em like that.
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Old 08-19-2011, 22:29   #267
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Those 165s blossom pretty nicely, don't they? I have found that about 1335 fps is a good speed for them overall. That is my carry load for in town.
Yeah, if I can get these 155gr Gold Dots to look like that 165gr bullet, but at around 1400fps, they will be used for carry. Then I can pull down the 21 Barnes bullets I'm carrying now, and do some Longshot work-ups!!! I just can't imagine a much better bullet if I can get the 155gr Gold Dots to expand like that. One inch of expansion, plus good penetration, great mass retention, 155gr, awesome energy, and their proven barrier penetration would make a great carry round. Hopefully I can make it accurate and feed reliably, as well.

If I can get the Barnes bullet to 1550-1600fps, though, it's gonna be a tough choice.

Quote:
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Haha!

Actually I think they WERE free but its kinda like a newspaper bin: the honor system. I ain't gonna do 'em like that.
Yeah, but nobody uses yellow pages anymore. That's why there were so many left. Just replace them with a note that says, "go to yellowpages.com". Of course, I'm kidding. It's not good to steal even free stuff.
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Old 08-20-2011, 00:07   #268
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Thanks a lot for these tests man... I just stumbled upon a box of 135gr Noslers at Cabela's so now I have 150gr and 135gr Noslers and 180gr XTP's to blast at the range.

What's a good load for the 135gr Nosler to get the kinda results you got? I've only been using Blue Dot so far but after I get a Chrono I'll start trying other powders.
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Old 08-20-2011, 00:50   #269
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Originally Posted by crsuribe View Post
Thanks a lot for these tests man... I just stumbled upon a box of 135gr Noslers at Cabela's so now I have 150gr and 135gr Noslers and 180gr XTP's to blast at the range.

What's a good load for the 135gr Nosler to get the kinda results you got? I've only been using Blue Dot so far but after I get a Chrono I'll start trying other powders.
I haven't ever used Blue Dot with the 135gr Nosler JHPs, but I would guess 12.5gr would be a good starting point. I would THINK you could go to 14.0gr or so. Hubcap500 just did some testing with them and Blue Dot. Check out his thread for his load data:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1363948

I think you should get some 800-X or Longshot for them. Hubcap has data for both of those powders with them on that page, as well. I have used 13.0gr 800-X (CCI 300, COAL 1.260") and gotten around 1550fps from my stock G29 barrel. Start around 12.0gr and work up. That same load averaged 1734fps with GTRhino's 5.47" LWD G20 barrel. I would guess about 1650fps from a G20. Longshot is also a good choice. You should be able to work up to around 1600fps+ with a G20. I would start around 11.5gr with it.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-20-2011 at 00:53..
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Old 08-21-2011, 18:11   #270
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Check out these 155gr Gold Dots shot into water jugs. These bullets would be horrible to get shot with. Especially the 11.5gr 800-X load. It expanded to a max of 1.105" and minimum of 1.001". NONE of it was less than one inch. Oh yeah, it retained 153.9gr. Nice.

It's actually really cool how you can see these Gold Dots progress and expand more and more with each jump up in velocity. The first picture is the Blue Dot load at 1257fps. Second is the Longshot load at 1290fps, then the 11.5gr 800-X load at 1388fps. When I got to the 11.8gr 800-X load (1409fps), the bullet lost a couple of petals, but would still be effective.

13.0gr Blue Dot (1257fps):
Min expansion: .606"
Max expansion: .862"
Retained mass: 155.2gr

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

11.5gr Longshot (1290fps):
Min expansion: .969"
Max expansion: 1.101"
Retained mass: 155.2gr

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

11.5gr 800-X (1388fps):
Min expansion: 1.001"
Max expansion: 1.105"
Retained mass: 153.9gr

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

11.8gr 800-X (1409fps):
Min expansion: .762"
Max expansion: .958"
Retained mass: 126.4gr/with 3 petals: 155.8gr

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

And here's one of my current carry loads (Barnes 125gr TAC-XP/11.4gr 800-X/1460fps):
Min expansion: .527"
Max expansion: .619"
Retained mass: 125.6gr

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum


I'm probably going to switch to the Gold Dots soon so I can pull the Barnes bullets and do some Longshot testing with them. Also, GTRhino and I had a setback today. The cops came and told us we couldn't shoot at our place anymore. So, we will have to find a new place to do the wax tube testing. Hopefully it won't take too long.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-21-2011 at 18:17..
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:51   #271
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Quote:
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Check out these 155gr Gold Dots shot into water jugs. These bullets would be horrible to get shot with.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Now I'm just hoping they impress to the same extent in the destruction of evil wax tubes.

21Carrier, will one or two of these new 155gr Gold Dot loads be the first sampled in the newly redesigned wax tubes?
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Old 08-23-2011, 14:26   #272
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Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Now I'm just hoping they impress to the same extent in the destruction of evil wax tubes.

21Carrier, will one or two of these new 155gr Gold Dot loads be the first sampled in the newly redesigned wax tubes?
I already ran the 180gr PDX1 and 135gr Pow'RBall in the new tubes, and they shattered the PVC (see above for the tests). It's a shame, too, because they worked perfectly in all other regards. I'm going back to cardboard. It absorbs the shock of high energy rounds much better.

The 155gr Gold Dot will be the next round I test. I'll devote two tubes to it. I'll do one with bare wax (as normal), and have a backup ready in case it fails to expand (like the 165gr and 180gr Gold Dots did). If that happens, I'll pour some water over the top of the wax tube. I'm hoping that will get the bullet to open, and it will finish in the wax. We will see.

Also, it may be a while, since me and GTRhino lost our shooting venue. I knew it was borderline legal, but I've shot there for 2 years and no one has ever said a word to me. The police told us the guy who owns it is a jerk and we couldn't shoot there anymore. I'm trying to find somewhere else that I can do the tests, since a range probably wouldn't tolerate it well.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-23-2011 at 14:26..
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Old 08-24-2011, 22:47   #273
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Shot 2 more 150gr Noslers from a brand new box into water jugs last weekend. Still can't get them to not expand. Both of them fully expanded and retained most of its mass. Will post pics sometime.

I wonder if you got a defective batch or something

Sorry to hear you're gonna have to find a new place.. was that somebody else's land? Check and see if you can join the FOP's club. That's what I did and heck I get to do whatever I want there. There's even a car that you can shoot and you never run into anybody even on the weekends.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:25   #274
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Shot 2 more 150gr Noslers from a brand new box into water jugs last weekend. Still can't get them to not expand. Both of them fully expanded and retained most of its mass. Will post pics sometime.

I wonder if you got a defective batch or something

Sorry to hear you're gonna have to find a new place.. was that somebody else's land? Check and see if you can join the FOP's club. That's what I did and heck I get to do whatever I want there. There's even a car that you can shoot and you never run into anybody even on the weekends.
I am thinking my 150gr Noslers are just crappy. It seems mine are about 50/50 on opening or not. Also, they have HUGE bullet-to-bullet variations with the grooves. Some are very pronounced, some are barely there. Who knows.

Yeah, it was someone else's land. According to the cops, the REAL problem is that there are tons of trails out there, and lots of people go off-roading and dirt biking back there. Apparently, the EPA has been fining the hell out of the landowner because of the environmental impact. Another problem is that the land was recently incorporated into Hoover city limits, which makes discharging a firearm there illegal. I was thinking of contacting the landowner and trying to make a deal with him. I figured I could pay him a small monthly fee, and promise to chase off the dirt bikers/off-roaders, but that wouldn't help with the city limits thing. However, I have a feeling the cops would be cool if I had permission to be there. Plus, I've shot there probably 150-200 times over two years, and that's been my first run-in with the cops.

I'm going to look into some local ranges, and also try to find someone with county land that will let me pay them to shoot on their land. There's also a free range on state wildlife management land that we can use, and we SHOULD be able to do whatever as long as no one else is there. That will likely be where we go until we find a better substitute.
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Old 08-29-2011, 18:48   #275
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I hate it that you guys got ran off, I would definitely try to contact a farmer or other landowner with a decent amount of land. You can shoot on my farm in Central Ky anytime, hell of a drive though.

I got 750 135gr. Nosler's today, all I have is Blue Dot. Where would you guys start at? I loaded up 1 mag at 13.3gr BD and everything seemed to work fine, brass looks great. I've gotta get a chrono. Do the cheap ones around $80 bucks that I see work decent?
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Old 08-29-2011, 20:06   #276
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I hate it that you guys got ran off, I would definitely try to contact a farmer or other landowner with a decent amount of land. You can shoot on my farm in Central Ky anytime, hell of a drive though.

I got 750 135gr. Nosler's today, all I have is Blue Dot. Where would you guys start at? I loaded up 1 mag at 13.3gr BD and everything seemed to work fine, brass looks great. I've gotta get a chrono. Do the cheap ones around $80 bucks that I see work decent?
Yeah, it sucks. We will find somewhere. I shot some 135gr Noslers the other day with 13.5gr BD, but I couldn't use the chronograph at our new (crappy) range.

I have no experience with the $80 chronograph, and I'm assuming you're talking about the Shooting Chrony F1. If so, be careful. I was about to buy it, but after reading all the reviews at MidwayUSA, I saw that almost every single review in the last few years was REALLY bad. The older reviews were mostly good, so it makes me think the quality has gone downhill. I got the next cheapest one, the Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital. It was $120, and it's perfect. I HIGHLY recommend you spend the extra $40, it's worth it.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 08-29-2011 at 20:07..
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:53   #277
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I can second the Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital from Midway, I just picked one up and it works as advertised.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:59   #278
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I've got a Shooting Chrony Beta I got on sale at MidwayUSA for $97 plus shipping. Works great!
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Old 08-30-2011, 16:38   #279
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Thanks for the info, I guess thats the one I need to get. I'm gonna go shoot some of the 135 Nosler's w/ 13.5 BD and see how they do after while. Might add a little more powder if things seem good.

21: What OAL were you using on the 135gr. Noslers w/ BD?
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Old 09-01-2011, 13:55   #280
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Thanks for the info, I guess thats the one I need to get. I'm gonna go shoot some of the 135 Nosler's w/ 13.5 BD and see how they do after while. Might add a little more powder if things seem good.

21: What OAL were you using on the 135gr. Noslers w/ BD?
I used 1.260". I pretty much load all of my ammo to 1.260". The only ones I don't are when the load specifies a different length. Also, with some bullets in SD loads, I shorten to around 1.250" to help feeding. I usually shoot for about 1.257-1.260".
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