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Old 07-04-2011, 21:07   #141
_The_Shadow
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Water is hard on the bullets(pure hydrodynamics), the wax and gelatin may be a little more forgiving! We will see soon enough...Your Glock barrel will be fine!
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Old 07-05-2011, 07:13   #142
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Nice work 21.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:39   #143
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I tested Shadow's cast Lyman Devastator bullets yesterday. Sadly, I messed up. Apparently, I didn't allow the wax to cool fully, and the weather was hot as hell. When I shot the tubes, both slugs went straight through. The first half of the wax (the part the bullet hit first) was cool, and performed normally. However, the second half of the wax was still warm, and jelly-like. Because of this, the bullets just kept on going and exited the tube. I found both bullets (they barely exited the tubes), but they got dinged up pretty badly on the rocks underneath. Also, because it was so hot, and the tubes weren't fully cooled, they melted before I could get them back home. So, I couldn't get accurate measurements. I placed my "wax knife" in the pics to use as a guide for approximate measurements. Anyway, here's the data:

Lyman 10mm 156gr Devastator HP

For some reason, this bullet failed to open. I'm not sure why. The first half of the wax was around normal temperature, so test conditions shouldn't have been different. It actually seems that the impact with the wax CLOSED the hollow point. However, because the bullet hit rocks underneath, it's hard to tell if that happened in or out of the tube. I'm inclined to think the wax did it because most of the obvious rock damage is on the BACK of the bullet. Whatever the cause, it didn't open, so this data is entertaining at best. I will repeat both tests sometime soon.

Load: new Starline brass, CCI 300, Blue Dot 11.0gr, COAL 1.260"

Max expansion: .451"
Retained mass: 155.8gr
Penetration: full penetration, about 16"
Max wound cavity diameter: about 1.5"

Pictures:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

In this picture, the bullet is sitting on its base. So the nose is facing the camera.
10mm Reloading Forum

In this picture, the nose is pointing up (north), base is down (south).
10mm Reloading Forum

This is a picture of the base (bottom) of the bullet. Damage due to rocks under tube.
10mm Reloading Forum


Lyman .45ACP 195gr Devastator HP

This bullet performed pretty well, although it over expanded. Photos I've seen of it on the internet show that it's a pretty good performer. It seems it usually expands to a flat disk, kind of like a 155gr Silvertip. However, for me, it over-expanded. All that was left was the core. The other pieces broke off and did a little bit of secondary wounding similar to the light 10mm bullets (though not as bad due to the much lower velocity). This test should actually be pretty accurate. The only part that didn't get captured accurately was penetration. I think it would likely have stopped had the back half of the wax been solid.

Load: Winchester brass, CCI 300, Unique 7.3gr, COAL 1.23" (the COAL probably should have been shorter, but I just guessed on the safe side)

Max expansion: .512" (realize these figures are for the core only)
Min expansion: .455"
Retained mass: 96.9gr
Penetration: full penetration, about 16"
Max wound channel diameter: 1.5-1.75"

Pictures:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum


Overall, I think the .45ACP test is a good representation of the bullet's performance, minus the full penetration. I would guess around 12" normally. I believe the 10mm test was a full-on disaster. I will definitely repeat it. I know that bullet expands because I've seen it explode in water.

The next test will be the 200gr WFNGC since everyone is interested in it. I was going to try to do it tomorrow, but my girlfriend is off today, so I'm gonna go spend the day with her. That won't leave me the time to get the tubes ready. I'll try to have it done by Tuesday at the latest.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 07-09-2011 at 12:39..
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Old 07-09-2011, 15:00   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I tested Shadow's cast Lyman Devastator bullets yesterday. Sadly, I messed up. Apparently, I didn't allow the wax to cool fully, and the weather was hot as hell. When I shot the tubes, both slugs went straight through. The first half of the wax (the part the bullet hit first) was cool, and performed normally. However, the second half of the wax was still warm, and jelly-like. Because of this, the bullets just kept on going and exited the tube. I found both bullets (they barely exited the tubes), but they got dinged up pretty badly on the rocks underneath. Also, because it was so hot, and the tubes weren't fully cooled, they melted before I could get them back home. So, I couldn't get accurate measurements. I placed my "wax knife" in the pics to use as a guide for approximate measurements. Anyway, here's the data:

Lyman 10mm 156gr Devastator HP

For some reason, this bullet failed to open. I'm not sure why. The first half of the wax was around normal temperature, so test conditions shouldn't have been different. It actually seems that the impact with the wax CLOSED the hollow point. However, because the bullet hit rocks underneath, it's hard to tell if that happened in or out of the tube. I'm inclined to think the wax did it because most of the obvious rock damage is on the BACK of the bullet. Whatever the cause, it didn't open, so this data is entertaining at best. I will repeat both tests sometime soon.

Load: new Starline brass, CCI 300, Blue Dot 11.0gr, COAL 1.260"

Max expansion: .451"
Retained mass: 155.8gr
Penetration: full penetration, about 16"
Max wound cavity diameter: about 1.5"

Pictures:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

In this picture, the bullet is sitting on its base. So the nose is facing the camera.
10mm Reloading Forum

In this picture, the nose is pointing up (north), base is down (south).
10mm Reloading Forum

This is a picture of the base (bottom) of the bullet. Damage due to rocks under tube.
10mm Reloading Forum


Lyman .45ACP 195gr Devastator HP

This bullet performed pretty well, although it over expanded. Photos I've seen of it on the internet show that it's a pretty good performer. It seems it usually expands to a flat disk, kind of like a 155gr Silvertip. However, for me, it over-expanded. All that was left was the core. The other pieces broke off and did a little bit of secondary wounding similar to the light 10mm bullets (though not as bad due to the much lower velocity). This test should actually be pretty accurate. The only part that didn't get captured accurately was penetration. I think it would likely have stopped had the back half of the wax been solid.

Load: Winchester brass, CCI 300, Unique 7.3gr, COAL 1.23" (the COAL probably should have been shorter, but I just guessed on the safe side)

Max expansion: .512" (realize these figures are for the core only)
Min expansion: .455"
Retained mass: 96.9gr
Penetration: full penetration, about 16"
Max wound channel diameter: 1.5-1.75"

Pictures:

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum

10mm Reloading Forum


Overall, I think the .45ACP test is a good representation of the bullet's performance, minus the full penetration. I would guess around 12" normally. I believe the 10mm test was a full-on disaster. I will definitely repeat it. I know that bullet expands because I've seen it explode in water.

The next test will be the 200gr WFNGC since everyone is interested in it. I was going to try to do it tomorrow, but my girlfriend is off today, so I'm gonna go spend the day with her. That won't leave me the time to get the tubes ready. I'll try to have it done by Tuesday at the latest.
Nice test, nice write up, and thanks!

I'm not particularly into the 200gr WFNGC. I don't see it creating much drama in terms of wound track volume, and outside of maybe Bear defense where we simply want maximum penetration depth period, don't really get where all the hype comes from with that bullet.

By the same token, as I have no direct experience with them, I will be interested to view the results you end up with to see how right or wrong I am based on those bullets against wax.

Keep up the great work 21Carrier, and thanks a million for doing it!
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Old 07-09-2011, 15:53   #145
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21 Well that was Devastating! Sorry! They do better at lower velocities I suppose.
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Old 07-09-2011, 15:56   #146
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21 Well that was Devastating! Sorry! They do better at lower velocities I suppose.
Don't discount them yet. I suspect the 10mm version will work well when it opens. I'm not sure what happened, but I'll test it again. Also, I have a feeling that is pretty good damage for a .45ACP. We are just used to seeing 10mm damage. I bet when I start testing the .45ACP, we will see that it did pretty well.
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Old 07-09-2011, 16:05   #147
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I might need to cast those even softer...we'll see.
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Old 07-09-2011, 19:19   #148
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I doubt they are too hard. The wax was softer than usual (though I think the first half was ok), it was extremely hot, it just wasn't the best test. I would say wait until we get another test. I think they will work fine. The one I shot into water blew up pretty well. Plus, don't forget that the Gold Dots failed to open in the wax. Maybe it's just a little harder to open. That's not always a bad thing. They might not work in the wax, but work fine in water/gelatin/tissue. They might be too hard for the wax, but I don't think that means you should change them. I would think you would want them to be somewhat hard since they lack a jacket. We will see when I repeat the test. From now on, I'll make sure the wax has had plenty of time to harden.
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Old 07-13-2011, 16:53   #149
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Cool test ... I've been out of town for a few days and am about to leave again. I'm keeping up on your tests but don't have a PC to respond from most of the time.

Can't wait for the WFNGC loads...! (remember, load them a bit short... maybe 1.245-1.250) for good feeding
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Old 07-13-2011, 20:50   #150
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Cool test ... I've been out of town for a few days and am about to leave again. I'm keeping up on your tests but don't have a PC to respond from most of the time.

Can't wait for the WFNGC loads...! (remember, load them a bit short... maybe 1.245-1.250) for good feeding
I'm gonna keep them at my normal COAL (1.255-1.260") for the test. I don't have enough yet to properly work them up if I changed the COAL. Plus, I do my testing with one round in the gun, so feeding isn't a concern. No need for a second round. I'm hoping to do the WFNGC test Friday.

Sorry I've been slacking lately. It is just ridiculously hot here. Me and GTRhino24 went shooting the day I did the tests on the Devastators, and both of us were showing symptoms of heat exhaustion/heat stroke. He was sick to his stomach, and I was extremely weak. I could barely get my gear back into my car. I got home, sat on the couch to just rest a minute before showering, and woke up 12 hours later. I felt like crap for almost 2 whole days.
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Old 07-13-2011, 21:28   #151
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Be careful out there in the heat man! The heat here is rough as well...Like walkin' into an oven!
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Old 07-13-2011, 23:12   #152
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I'm gonna keep them at my normal COAL (1.255-1.260") for the test. I don't have enough yet to properly work them up if I changed the COAL. Plus, I do my testing with one round in the gun, so feeding isn't a concern. No need for a second round. I'm hoping to do the WFNGC test Friday.

Sorry I've been slacking lately. It is just ridiculously hot here. Me and GTRhino24 went shooting the day I did the tests on the Devastators, and both of us were showing symptoms of heat exhaustion/heat stroke. He was sick to his stomach, and I was extremely weak. I could barely get my gear back into my car. I got home, sat on the couch to just rest a minute before showering, and woke up 12 hours later. I felt like crap for almost 2 whole days.


Here -

Now get back out there and wow us!
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:43   #153
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Yep ... its WAYYYY hot out there. I was in Wichita this past weekend and it was 112 degrees two days in a row. New record, apparently. WOW. Humid AND high temps. Never thought I'd say I'm glad to be back in 98/humid.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:18   #154
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Folks, you need to go have your cholesterol checked, seriously.

I mowed a half acre once a week here in Flaridah steam, and I feel fine after a half gallon of ice cold root beer + cold shower. I couldn't do that before Crestor.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:30   #155
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Yep...I threw up.

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Folks, you need to go have your cholesterol checked, seriously.

I mowed a half acre once a week here in Flaridah steam, and I feel fine after a half gallon of ice cold root beer + cold shower. I couldn't do that before Crestor.
Carrier21 wasn't kidding. The heat index was in the triple digits that day. I started getting all loopy picking up brass. NOT a good feeling when handling a weapon. A train passed by and smelled like it was dragging a dead cow under it. That was the final straw. I yacked.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:48   #156
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Whoo hoo and here I was complaining that it was 70 - 75 degrees at the most and over cast with a little drizzle...
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Old 07-14-2011, 13:07   #157
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Folks, you need to go have your cholesterol checked, seriously.

I mowed a half acre once a week here in Flaridah steam, and I feel fine after a half gallon of ice cold root beer + cold shower. I couldn't do that before Crestor.
Our problem was a lack of cold beverages and we were wearing jeans. The bugs out there are savage. I'll wear shorts and Off from now on, and bring a jug of ice water. All I had was a 100* Powerade.
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Old 07-14-2011, 14:18   #158
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We have been complaining that summer would never get here. Coldest year so far in 27 years. I have just barely started using the pool.

A bit of electrolite in that ice water is good for hot days.

Be well. We look forward to that WFNGC test!!
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Old 07-14-2011, 21:19   #159
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We have been complaining that summer would never get here. Coldest year so far in 27 years. I have just barely started using the pool.

A bit of electrolite in that ice water is good for hot days.

Be well. We look forward to that WFNGC test!!
I am HOPING to do it tomorrow. I made the cardboard tube earlier (38" long), and I'm in the process of pouring the wax. It's all melted, and some is already in the tube. However, I just realized it might have to wait until Saturday. The tube is too long to fit in my refrigerator, so it is likely gonna take a long time to cool. I'll see how it goes, but I don't want to mess up the test, so I'm gonna make sure it's fully cooled and ready. I sure hope 38" will be long enough.
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Old 07-14-2011, 21:23   #160
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I think I'm more excited about this test than ANY before!! Oh yeaaaaa....
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