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Old 05-12-2011, 09:34   #61
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
Issues like this reveal who really believes in rights and who just wants to get their way regardless of the cost.

The same people that bemoan an overreaching federal Govt. when that Govt. does something they don't like suddenly become ardent Federalists when that same govt. will give them what they want.
This is too often ignored.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 05-12-2011, 09:41   #62
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
snubfan
I agree 100%! National Constitutional carry is all thats needed! Get the government out of it at all levels!
LOL!! You do realize that "National Constitutional Carry" is based on government control at all levels....or maybe you don't!
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:02   #63
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What about when the .gov starts throwing in a few "common sense" requirements or blanket restrictions. How would you like a national ten round mag limit or no carry of those "cop killer" hollow points? No church carry?(Which is a restiction in my state but not in all.) National age requirement of 23 to get a permit.(like Missouri, I believe) Just a few here to start but I'm sure we could come up with more.

If you want to push for something at the national level, push for National Constitutional Carry.
Great point, and i agree it sould be left to the States
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Old 05-12-2011, 11:31   #64
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LOL!! You do realize that "National Constitutional Carry" is based on government control at all levels....or maybe you don't!
I agree. Then I could open carry my M4 with attached 203 to the local park to watch the little league games in safety and see my nephews play. And I could have my bayonet attached while I walk through the mall and shop for my girlfriend at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I'd never have to worry about what the antis think!
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Old 05-12-2011, 13:07   #65
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I'm in with RottnJP. This is an issue of states recognizing each others' decisions and extending the same privileges to travellers as they do to their own. No one says that the visitor can ignore any restriction that the local has to obey. And for states like IL and WI, there's no requirement to allow any carry for anyone.

And, yes, it's a federal issue precisely because it deals with travel and commerce between the states.
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Old 05-12-2011, 13:11   #66
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I agree. Then I could open carry my M4 with attached 203 to the local park to watch the little league games in safety and see my nephews play. And I could have my bayonet attached while I walk through the mall and shop for my girlfriend at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I'd never have to worry about what the antis think!
Now, you know you can't start talking about that without pictures.

Where are the pics?! A link to pics in another thread would be great
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Old 05-12-2011, 17:57   #67
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
This abomination pases and you can expect in a few years they will amend it. To "standardize" carry requirements like training etc. Then before long it will have it's own bureaucracy whose only purpose is to promulgate rules and regulations whether they are needed or not.
I would totally agree with you IF we were talking about nationalized CCW scheme. That would be a train wreck waiting to happen, and would be a violation of the states' rights.

But basing national legislation on "full faith and credit" is different- In that case, any federal restrictions might impact the reciprocity piece of the issue, but would not supercede the states' legislation. So, for example, let's say nat'l reciprocity passes, then Hillary is elected President, and decides to F with it. At worst, the fed could tack on rules that make the federal reciprocity useless. None of that would impact state residents abiding by their own states regulations.

In fact, later federal abuse of a law based on full faith and credit could even be ignored by states which have undertaken their own reciprocity agreements, because at no time would the nat'l legislation have greater force than the states- It would simply be there to protect the "minimum rights" as congress understands them at any given point in time.
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Old 05-12-2011, 18:12   #68
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In fact, later federal abuse of a law based on full faith and credit could even be ignored by states which have undertaken their own reciprocity agreements, because at no time would the nat'l legislation have greater force than the states- It would simply be there to protect the "minimum rights" as congress understands them at any given point in time.
Then how does it ever have an effect?
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Old 05-12-2011, 18:20   #69
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I would totally agree with you IF we were talking about nationalized CCW scheme. That would be a train wreck waiting to happen, and would be a violation of the states' rights.

But basing national legislation on "full faith and credit" is different- In that case, any federal restrictions might impact the reciprocity piece of the issue, but would not supercede the states' legislation. So, for example, let's say nat'l reciprocity passes, then Hillary is elected President, and decides to F with it. At worst, the fed could tack on rules that make the federal reciprocity useless. None of that would impact state residents abiding by their own states regulations.

In fact, later federal abuse of a law based on full faith and credit could even be ignored by states which have undertaken their own reciprocity agreements, because at no time would the nat'l legislation have greater force than the states- It would simply be there to protect the "minimum rights" as congress understands them at any given point in time.
Are you saying that even after National Reciprocity passes, California could still continue to not recognise a UT license because CA has a state law that says no permit from other than CA shall be recognised...?

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Old 05-12-2011, 19:54   #70
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O.K., I guess I didn't say it right- I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know all the right words- It does impact the states laws in the sense of what that article of the Constitution says- Individual states can't abridge the rights of other states residents.

So a CA law saying "we don't play" would be illegal. The law would be saying that states have to let other states' residents play by the "home" state's rules, if that makes sense. (So you might have to know that if you're traveling to MA, you'd better have a couple 10 round mags handy, and put your evil full size mags in the trunk... I would think CCW-travelers would have to be very careful to "study up" before hitting the road for another state.)

But the courts would likely get involved in determining what is a "reasonable" restriction, just like they do now, with a state that chooses to put an unreasonably onerous restriction in place. Kind of like the Fed saying poll taxes are illegal (unreasonable) while a residency requirement might be perfectly fine.

So CA might pass a law saying out of state visitors with CCW's have to check in with the state police and register their firearm, destination, length of visit, etc. Someone would sue, and the court would get involved there.

So yes, I suppose no option is perfectly clean as regards states rights. The courts have long held that the Fed can play a role in ensuring certain rights are held to a minimum level in all states, and that's where this would help- That's what it would do for the 2nd amendment. In my opinion, anyway... It's definitely a bit of a challenging issue.
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:07   #71
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I agree. Then I could open carry my M4 with attached 203 to the local park to watch the little league games in safety and see my nephews play. And I could have my bayonet attached while I walk through the mall and shop for my girlfriend at Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I'd never have to worry about what the antis think!
Any pics yet?

Which rifle, specifically, is your "M4"?
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:15   #72
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Now, you know you can't start talking about that without pictures.

Where are the pics?! A link to pics in another thread would be great
Once the Congress finally decides to recognize the 2nd Amendment as it was meant to be. I will have an M4 or maybe an MP5 to take with me everywhere as I go on about my daily life.

I figure it will happen at about the same time national reciprocity happens.
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:17   #73
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Once the Congress finally decides to recognize the 2nd Amendment as it was meant to be. I will have an M4 or maybe an MP5 to take with me everywhere as I go on about my daily life.

I figure it will happen at about the same time national reciprocity happens.

Do you have any experience carrying a rifle? If so, where?
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:22   #74
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Do you have any experience carrying a rifle? If so, where?
I do. I'd rather leave it at that. By chance do you?
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:25   #75
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I do. I'd rather leave it at that. By chance do you?
If you aren't willing to discuss it why do you keep throwing it out there?
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Old 05-13-2011, 14:56   #76
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I live in the Peoples Republic of Illinois. Here they don't respect the Constitution and don't care about citizens rights.
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Old 05-13-2011, 15:00   #77
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If you aren't willing to discuss it why do you keep throwing it out there?
Once it passes I will. Maybe the two of us could march down the street in Atlanta or Chicago or New York City with our rifles openly displayed and as American citizens like the Founders Intended.

I am just saying that if the congress starts giving us our rights back, for lack of a better expression, then we can exercise them.
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Old 05-13-2011, 19:55   #78
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Once it passes I will. Maybe the two of us could march down the street in Atlanta or Chicago or New York City with our rifles openly displayed and as American citizens like the Founders Intended.

I am just saying that if the congress starts giving us our rights back, for lack of a better expression, then we can exercise them.
I could already do that, legally, here in Georgia.

I think there are laws about walking in the street, though. Wouldn't want to get run over.
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Old 05-13-2011, 20:48   #79
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This was a very interesting discussion... How did it devolve into carrying rifles down main street again?
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Old 05-13-2011, 21:10   #80
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This was a very interesting discussion... How did it devolve into carrying rifles down main street again?
Ask Toorop.
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