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Old 05-13-2011, 21:13   #81
HotRoderX
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Biggest fear about something like this passing is simply states refusing to issue any more CCP to people.

If a state does not wanna agree with it easy solution just stop issuing permits.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:56   #82
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Biggest fear about something like this passing is simply states refusing to issue any more CCP to people.

If a state does not wanna agree with it easy solution just stop issuing permits.


permits are an infringment on our rights to carry firearms anyway.. IMHO they wouldnt or couldnt stop issuing permits that would be a total violation of being able to carry. so they would have a lot of protesting on that one
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Old 12-04-2011, 19:38   #83
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So how does this possible legislation affect those who live in states that don't issue permits, like Vermont? Wouldn't the state then have to start issuing permits (restricting it's citizen's rights) so that they can carry in other states?
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Old 12-04-2011, 21:11   #84
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So how does this possible legislation affect those who live in states that don't issue permits, like Vermont? Wouldn't the state then have to start issuing permits (restricting it's citizen's rights) so that they can carry in other states?
they could easily continue on without requiring permits, but then issue permits in addition for any residents that travel.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:22   #85
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Looking at the fact many states issue non-resident permits it shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:00   #86
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Biggest fear about something like this passing is simply states refusing to issue any more CCP to people.

If a state does not wanna agree with it easy solution just stop issuing permits.

You have a good point! I think it would drive violent crimes down. I think the thugs would have to wonder...Is he/she packing or not??? especially in a place like NYC or Boston. I just don't see this happening...unfortunitley.
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Old 12-05-2011, 18:56   #87
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If a state does not wanna agree with it easy solution just stop issuing permits.
Ok, let's use this as an example.

New Jersey issues permit.

You can't carry in NJ.

National Reciprocity law passes.

You can now carry in NJ.

New Jersey gets pissed off and stop issuing permits.

You can no longer carrying in NJ.

What's the problem? In this context, tell me how this law is bad for non-NJ residents.
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Old 12-05-2011, 19:00   #88
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So how does this possible legislation affect those who live in states that don't issue permits, like Vermont? Wouldn't the state then have to start issuing permits (restricting it's citizen's rights) so that they can carry in other states?
This law has zero practical affect on VT. They can pretty much go on with business as usual. This law doesn't NOT give state residents the ability to carry in other states. It only affects those with a valid state-issued permit. If you don't have a permit, no effect on you, what you didn't yesterday is same as what you do tomorrow. VT residents are still free to choose their own course of action if they have other needs (just as they would do today).
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Old 12-05-2011, 19:35   #89
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This law has zero practical affect on VT. They can pretty much go on with business as usual. This law doesn't NOT give state residents the ability to carry in other states. It only affects those with a valid state-issued permit. If you don't have a permit, no effect on you, what you didn't yesterday is same as what you do tomorrow. VT residents are still free to choose their own course of action if they have other needs (just as they would do today).
Would this law allow a VT resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in other states that currently do not have reciprocity with Florida, or does it require the licensee to have the permit from their home state? It's a little unclear on that.

Otherwise, a NY resident would just go get the easiest permit they could and poof, they can now carry in NY instead of going through all of their home state's rules.

If they haven't covered that, someone will before this gets to the next level.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:02   #90
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I guess everyone in favor of HR 822 is aware of these provisions in the bill that was passed:

SEC. 3. GAO AUDIT OF THE STATES' CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT OR LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR NON-RESIDENTS.

(a) The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct an audit of--
(1) the laws and regulations of each State that authorize the issuance of a valid permit or license to permit a person, other than a resident of such State, to possess or carry a concealed firearm, including a description of the permitting or licensing requirements of each State that issues concealed carry permits or licenses to persons other than a resident of such State;
(2) the number of such valid permits or licenses issued or denied (and the basis for such denials) by each State to persons other than a resident of such State; and
(3) the effectiveness of such State laws and regulations in protecting the public safety.
(b) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to Congress a report on the findings of the study conducted under subsection (a).
SEC. 4. GAO STUDY OF THE ABILITY OF STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO VERIFY THE VALIDITY OF OUT-OF-STATE CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMITS.

(a) In General- The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.
(b) Report to the Congress- Within 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate a written report which contains the results of the study required by subsection (a).

-Mike
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:09   #91
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Would this law allow a VT resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in other states that currently do not have reciprocity with Florida, or does it require the licensee to have the permit from their home state? It's a little unclear on that.

Otherwise, a NY resident would just go get the easiest permit they could and poof, they can now carry in NY instead of going through all of their home state's rules.

If they haven't covered that, someone will before this gets to the next level.
It allows you to get any carry permit from any state and carry in any state, other than your state of residence, that allows concealed carry. A NJ resident can get a FL non-resident and carry in every state except NJ and IL. A VT resident can get a NH permit and carry in every state except IL. If IL were to pass concealed carry then you could carry there.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:13   #92
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Otherwise, a NY resident would just go get the easiest permit they could and poof, they can now carry in NY instead of going through all of their home.
Wouldn't go down like that, NYS issues permits to own firearms, Let alone carry. Most of the populous of NYS (NYC) and other counties with large populations will not even be issued an "unrestricted" (carry) permit.
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Old 12-05-2011, 20:16   #93
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Wouldn't go down like that, NYS issues permits to own firearms, Let alone carry. Most of the populous of NYS (NYC) and other counties with large populations will not even be issued an "unrestricted" (carry) permit.
It all depends on where you live. Some counties are easier than others.
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Old 12-05-2011, 22:45   #94
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Would this law allow a VT resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in other states that currently do not have reciprocity with Florida, or does it require the licensee to have the permit from their home state? It's a little unclear on that.

Otherwise, a NY resident would just go get the easiest permit they could and poof, they can now carry in NY instead of going through all of their home state's rules.

If they haven't covered that, someone will before this gets to the next level.
Would this law allow a VT resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in other states that currently do not have reciprocity with Florida? Yes. When this bill passes, FL will instantly have "reciprocity" with 48 other state permits. Doesn't much matter where you live, how you got the permit, or where you are going, your valid state-issued permit is valid in 49 states (with a few home state exceptions).

Would this law allow a MO resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in MO? Yes. But this new bill didn't create this condition, MO created it. MO doesn't care where you get your permit from, even if you are a MO resident you are free to get a permit from another state if you wish. The new bill doesn't change the existing MO state law with regards to it's own residents.

Would this law allow a NY resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in NY? No. This new bill doesn't override NY state law. NY cares where their residents get their permit from and right now NY says if you live in NY and you want to carry in NY, you have to get permission from NY via a NY permit. The new bill doesn't change the existing state law with regards to it's own residents.

I know how people feel about "states rights" and in the last example, NY has sole discretion over it's own residents but personally I don't feel NY has the right to DENY out of state residents their rights just because I don't own a resident in the state of NY. If NY (and other states) has an out of state visitor program, maybe that's fine. Maybe it's ok for NY to say yes or no to out of state residents as to whether they can carry or not. However, this isn't happening. NY has said "No! forgot about it." NY said denied my rights in their state and once again, if NY want to deny a NYer, that between them but don't try to impose unreasonable NY state laws onto visitors from KS and elsewhere. It is reasonable to have some types of restrictions (especially reasonable restrictions that apply to your own residents as well) but to completely deny my rights (when those same rights are given to some residents) means the Federal government has to step in to help restore my rights. And that's exactly what is happening here....in the least intrusive way possible, I might add.
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Old 12-05-2011, 23:00   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfm9 View Post
I guess everyone in favor of HR 822 is aware of these provisions in the bill that was passed:

SEC. 3. GAO AUDIT OF THE STATES' CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT OR LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR NON-RESIDENTS.

(a) The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct an audit of--
(1) the laws and regulations of each State that authorize the issuance of a valid permit or license to permit a person, other than a resident of such State, to possess or carry a concealed firearm, including a description of the permitting or licensing requirements of each State that issues concealed carry permits or licenses to persons other than a resident of such State;
(2) the number of such valid permits or licenses issued or denied (and the basis for such denials) by each State to persons other than a resident of such State; and
(3) the effectiveness of such State laws and regulations in protecting the public safety.
(b) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to Congress a report on the findings of the study conducted under subsection (a).
SEC. 4. GAO STUDY OF THE ABILITY OF STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO VERIFY THE VALIDITY OF OUT-OF-STATE CONCEALED FIREARMS PERMITS.

(a) In General- The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct a study of the ability of State and local law enforcement authorities to verify the validity of licenses or permits, issued by other States, to carry a concealed firearm.
(b) Report to the Congress- Within 1 year after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate a written report which contains the results of the study required by subsection (a).

-Mike
Yes I was aware of it and I agree with it. It was not a provision of the bill as introduced, it was the only one of 10 amendments to pass the house. This still needs to go through the senate and the White House before becoming law.
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Old 12-06-2011, 14:08   #96
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Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
Would this law allow a VT resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in other states that currently do not have reciprocity with Florida? Yes. When this bill passes, FL will instantly have "reciprocity" with 48 other state permits. Doesn't much matter where you live, how you got the permit, or where you are going, your valid state-issued permit is valid in 49 states (with a few home state exceptions).

Would this law allow a MO resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in MO? Yes. But this new bill didn't create this condition, MO created it. MO doesn't care where you get your permit from, even if you are a MO resident you are free to get a permit from another state if you wish. The new bill doesn't change the existing MO state law with regards to it's own residents.

Would this law allow a NY resident to get a Florida permit and have it valid in NY? No. This new bill doesn't override NY state law. NY cares where their residents get their permit from and right now NY says if you live in NY and you want to carry in NY, you have to get permission from NY via a NY permit. The new bill doesn't change the existing state law with regards to it's own residents.

I know how people feel about "states rights" and in the last example, NY has sole discretion over it's own residents but personally I don't feel NY has the right to DENY out of state residents their rights just because I don't own a resident in the state of NY. If NY (and other states) has an out of state visitor program, maybe that's fine. Maybe it's ok for NY to say yes or no to out of state residents as to whether they can carry or not. However, this isn't happening. NY has said "No! forgot about it." NY said denied my rights in their state and once again, if NY want to deny a NYer, that between them but don't try to impose unreasonable NY state laws onto visitors from KS and elsewhere. It is reasonable to have some types of restrictions (especially reasonable restrictions that apply to your own residents as well) but to completely deny my rights (when those same rights are given to some residents) means the Federal government has to step in to help restore my rights. And that's exactly what is happening here....in the least intrusive way possible, I might add.
When the SCOTUS declares CCWing as part of the 2A, then you are right.
Right now, CCWing is a privilege that states regulate. CCW is not a right at this time. Should it be, yes. However, until then, NY has not infringed on your right. Subsequently, a state should be able to govern their own and the visitors that come in/to it for CCW. It shouldn't be the feds under the CC, but only due in part to the 2A.




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Old 12-06-2011, 14:22   #97
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Unfortunately it is treated as a privilege by most states even though it is a right. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I don't what those idiots think bear means. If they had written the 2nd amendment to help dumb it down they would have written it something like this..."Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to own and carry weapons shall not be infringed."
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Old 12-06-2011, 14:29   #98
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Unfortunately it is treated as a privilege by most states even though it is a right. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. I don't what those idiots think bear means. If they had written the 2nd amendment to help dumb it down they would have written it something like this..."Because a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to own and carry weapons shall not be infringed."
Exactly!

Although I hate it being treated as a privilege, I wish it would be re-established as a Right!



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Old 12-06-2011, 15:49   #99
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Exactly!

Although I hate it being treated as a privilege, I wish it would be re-established as a Right!



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Arizona (mostly), Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming agree it is.
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Old 12-06-2011, 15:58   #100
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Do you really think Obama would sign this into law? I don't.
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