GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2011, 16:34   #1
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
9BPLE vs. Ranger 115 +p+

For the first time I was able to purchase a few boxes of 9mm 9BPLE from ATG. I have been using Ranger 115 +p+. Does anyone have an opinion as to which may be more effective. I know that 9BPLE has gotten more press.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 16:58   #2
Deputydave
Senior Member
 
Deputydave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,632
From what I understand, the Ranger has very good expansion and penetration qualities. I do not know specifically about the 9BPLE. That would be a major consideration for me, particularly the penetration aspect of the round.

Other major considerations would be which functions better in your firearm? Which can you control better/more accurate with?

If all those considerations are about equal, which is less expensive so that you can practice more with it?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Deputydave; 05-12-2011 at 16:59..
Deputydave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 22:44   #3
Merkavaboy
Code-7A KUZ769
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
Posts: 5,405
Both loads were developed for the ISP and they had great success with both loads as a issued duty round.

My understanding is that both loads penetrate ballistic gel to approx 10". That's why they fail the FBI's ballistic protocols, and yet both loads wreck havoc on BGs.
__________________
"I spent the last two years of high school in a daze....attended classes sparingly, drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically."
Barack Obama
One Bad Ass Mistake America
Merkavaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 22:56   #4
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
From my limited water jug - 4 layers of denim testing this evening, they perform almost identical. They pentrate two jugs into the third causing a dimple on the far side and expand around 0.63. I did have one instance where the Ranger clogged with cloth and did not expand. However, this was very limited testing.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-12-2011 at 22:57..
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 15:35   #5
Glolt20-91
Senior Member
 
Glolt20-91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arizona Territory
Posts: 5,752
This 115gr Ranger (RA9115HP+) came apart during a 4 layer denim water bag test and was good for about calculated soft tissue ~8.7" of penetration;

Caliber Corner

Contrast that with the 115gr +P+ Gold Dot;

Caliber Corner

Surprising 0.580" expansion (1.73x caliber) that was good for ~12.3" of penetration, not much difference than the 124gr GD +P tested, 0.587" exp ~12.4" penetration.

Caliber Corner

Bob
__________________
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final - Bill Jordan

Last edited by Glolt20-91; 05-13-2011 at 15:38..
Glolt20-91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 16:11   #6
Buffering
The Cooler
 
Buffering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rocking the Casbah
Posts: 1,778


From my reading and studying of this issue I have taken from it the thought that the 9BPLE, as a non-bonded bullet, suffers in barrier penetration and will shed the copper jacket. Bonded bullets in general don't have that concern or at least not to the same degree so through windows and such you have some better options. Not perfect but better.

At the end of the mythical day, I wouldn't hesitate to carry the 9BPLE as it receives praise for its track record and I especially would carry it for person to person situations where as if I thought I'd be shooting at someone through a car window or door I'd carry a bonded bullet from a reputable manufacturer. I have both Gold Dots and the 9BPLE so I'm not predisposed to one bullet type or the other.
__________________
"Of every 100 men that go to battle 70 should not even be there, 20 are nothing but targets, 9 are true soldiers, and we are lucky to have them for they the battle make but ONE, one is a warrior, and HE will bring the others home." Hericlitus
Buffering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 17:37   #7
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Hey Bob - What was the diameter on that Ranger 115 +p+?
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 18:54   #8
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
For the first time I was able to purchase a few boxes of 9mm 9BPLE from ATG. I have been using Ranger 115 +p+. Does anyone have an opinion as to which may be more effective. I know that 9BPLE has gotten more press.
I see them both as pretty much dead equal. They both travel at very high velocity, though I'ld be real curious to see some privately done chrono results, and both seem to penetrate 10" - 10.5" in clothed gel. Plus they both seem to expand fairly reliably. Matter of fact, in data I've seen, the Cobon version seems to be on an equal level also in all the same respects.

On a side note, in data I've come across (FBI test results IIRC), the Remington version supposedly penetrates 11", and the Speer GD version supposedly penetrates 12" (which Bob's (Glolt20-91) data backs up).

As for expansion numbers, I don't recall for any of them.
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 19:32   #9
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
My wife carries a G19 and we have been looking to change her carry round. Currently she carries Ranger T 127gr +p+, but I have been a little dissapointed in the T series expansion. Particularly with ammo we purchased last year. The 9BPLE and Ranger 115 +p+ seem to have a good reputation, which is why I started there. I am not that knowledgable in the best 9mm carry rounds and would welcome suggestions. I practice with the 9mm, but do not carry it.

Craig - which GD round are you refering to? 115 +p+ or 124 +p?

Last edited by PghJim; 05-13-2011 at 19:33..
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 20:31   #10
Jeff82
CLM Number 237
NRA Benefactor
 
Jeff82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USofA!
Posts: 6,122


Quote:
Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
I'ld be real curious to see some privately done chrono results
I've clocked 9BPLE at 1381 through my G17. (avg. 10 rounds, high 1409, low 1368. On a very cool day.)
__________________
MOΛΩN ΛABE!

"A Republic, if you can keep it." B. Franklin, 1787, outside Independence Hall

There's not "good" or "bad" muslims, only those true to their book and those that aren't, yet...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Jeff82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 21:14   #11
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff82 View Post
I've clocked 9BPLE at 1381 through my G17. (avg. 10 rounds, high 1409, low 1368. On a very cool day.)
Jeff, I would think she should still get above 1,300fps in the G19. I shot some last evening through denim and water jugs and actually was a bit impressed. The 9BPLE expanded every time and almost made it out of the third jug. That is the same penatration I get with HST 124gr +p.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-13-2011 at 21:15..
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2011, 21:17   #12
Jeff82
CLM Number 237
NRA Benefactor
 
Jeff82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USofA!
Posts: 6,122


Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Jeff, I would think she should still get above 1,300fps in the G19.
My G19 typically gets about 30-35 fps less than my 17. So I'd expect about 1345-1350 in a 19. Glad to hear about the penetration.
__________________
MOΛΩN ΛABE!

"A Republic, if you can keep it." B. Franklin, 1787, outside Independence Hall

There's not "good" or "bad" muslims, only those true to their book and those that aren't, yet...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Jeff82; 05-13-2011 at 21:24..
Jeff82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2011, 21:42   #13
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
My wife carries a G19 and we have been looking to change her carry round. Currently she carries Ranger T 127gr +p+, but I have been a little dissapointed in the T series expansion. Particularly with ammo we purchased last year. The 9BPLE and Ranger 115 +p+ seem to have a good reputation, which is why I started there. I am not that knowledgable in the best 9mm carry rounds and would welcome suggestions. I practice with the 9mm, but do not carry it.

Craig - which GD round are you refering to? 115 +p+ or 124 +p?
115, but I don't recall if it was labeled as simply +P, or +P+. It was actually chronoed at 1259 fps, don't know from what platform though.
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2011, 21:44   #14
glock20c10mm
Senior Member
 
glock20c10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Out West
Posts: 5,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Jeff, I would think she should still get above 1,300fps in the G19. I shot some last evening through denim and water jugs and actually was a bit impressed. The 9BPLE expanded every time and almost made it out of the third jug. That is the same penatration I get with HST 124gr +p.
Like Jeff82 said, that's nothing to sneeze at! To tell you the truth, I'm surprised it went clear through the 3rd jug. Not that I knew one way or the other, just "surprised" is all.
__________________
Free Men Don't Need To Ask Permission To Bear Arms

The Glock 29 is the most versatile handgun yet produced.
glock20c10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 00:16   #15
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,246
Judging penetration with gallon water jugs is just wild ***** guestimation.
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 07:14   #16
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Judging penetration with gallon water jugs is just wild ***** guestimation.
Backyard tests may not be directly comparable to carefully controlled lab tests but they do yield valuable information that may or may not confirm the lab results.

For example, every backyard test of Federal HST I've seen shows uniformly consistent expansion of that round, whatever the test medium used. Wouldn't that tend to confirm ATK's and other lab tests?

I don't rely on informal backyard tests when it comes to ammo selection, but I do think it's useful and interesting.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 11:35   #17
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Judging penetration with gallon water jugs is just wild ***** guestimation.
What do you think they used before ballistic gel? With in its limitation it tells me some information considering every round is tested exactly the same. I cannot judge actual flesh peneration, but if a round fails to open in a water test it probably will not open in a gellatin test either. Everything I have seen in my testing as far a Winchester T-Series failures have been seen in gellatin tests. Rounds known for good penetration, will in my testing make it through the third jug. That is why I was surprised the 9PBLE almost made it out of the third jug.

It gives me something to do. The most interesting testing was the 357 magnum 125gr SJHP Remington round next to Seirra's 125gr DT 357sig round.

My wife and I are trying to pick a carry round for her. It is just another piece of information to use. Right now everything is pointing toward the 9PBLE and I have just ordered 6 boxes from ATG. However, she does not think the round is as cute as the T-series 127 +p+. I am trying to convince her that cuteness is not part of the selection process.

Last edited by PghJim; 05-15-2011 at 11:43..
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 19:52   #18
DocKWL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
What do you think they used before ballistic gel? With in its limitation it tells me some information considering every round is tested exactly the same. I cannot judge actual flesh peneration, but if a round fails to open in a water test it probably will not open in a gellatin test either. Everything I have seen in my testing as far a Winchester T-Series failures have been seen in gellatin tests. Rounds known for good penetration, will in my testing make it through the third jug. That is why I was surprised the 9PBLE almost made it out of the third jug.

It gives me something to do. The most interesting testing was the 357 magnum 125gr SJHP Remington round next to Seirra's 125gr DT 357sig round.

My wife and I are trying to pick a carry round for her. It is just another piece of information to use. Right now everything is pointing toward the 9PBLE and I have just ordered 6 boxes from ATG. However, she does not think the round is as cute as the T-series 127 +p+. I am trying to convince her that cuteness is not part of the selection process.
Quote:
What do you think they used before ballistic gel? With in its limitation it tells me some information considering every round is tested exactly the same. I cannot judge actual flesh peneration, but if a round fails to open in a water test it probably will not open in a gellatin test either.
Water-filled 55 gallon drums or purpose built tanks, not plastic gallon jugs. There is something called a Fackler box and when used properly, there is a mathematic formula which allows conversion. The information you need can be found at FirearmsTactical, but I know you disapprove of that site.

It is good to see you performing your own tests and formulating your own opinions based on results instead of Internet garbage.
DocKWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2011, 20:42   #19
PghJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocKWL View Post
Water-filled 55 gallon drums or purpose built tanks, not plastic gallon jugs. There is something called a Fackler box and when used properly, there is a mathematic formula which allows conversion. The information you need can be found at FirearmsTactical, but I know you disapprove of that site.

It is good to see you performing your own tests and formulating your own opinions based on results instead of Internet garbage.
Thanks, there are some things I disagree with on the site, but I will always look for ways of learning new information. If it is easier than carrying around 24 jugs filled with water, it is worth a look.
PghJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2011, 14:20   #20
Glolt20-91
Senior Member
 
Glolt20-91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Arizona Territory
Posts: 5,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghJim View Post
Hey Bob - What was the diameter on that Ranger 115 +p+?
Recovered lead core averaged 0.657" diameter, 93.2 grains.

Bob
__________________
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity."
- General George S. Patton, Jr

"Speed is fine, but accuracy is final - Bill Jordan
Glolt20-91 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:31.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 867
262 Members
605 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31