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Old 05-21-2011, 08:26   #1
DanaT
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Why would police not be allowed to pursue?

There is this article in the local paper and was on the local news last night:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...770?source=rss

http://www.9news.com/video/default.a...TPAGE|featured

If you watch the video (I am assuming its the same as was on the news), it says police saw the what they believed to be this car (based upon color, no license, loud...its not street legal) on highway going in excess of 100mph. The police said that they were not authorized to pursue cars like this.

Why would this be? Is there something specific that police shouldn't pursue cars that are too fast or going too fast? This doesnt make sense to me.

-Dana
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:33   #2
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Many departments, including most in Colorado, have adopted a limited pursuit policy. Even though legally law enforcement can pursue anybody who flees, most departments have been sued from pursuits that ended up with someone getting hurt and/or killed. So many have modified their policies to allow pursuits only for violent felonies (people crimes) as opposed to property crimes (ie. stolen cars). Yes this frustrates us.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:35   #3
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
There is this article in the local paper and was on the local news last night:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...770?source=rss

http://www.9news.com/video/default.a...TPAGE|featured

If you watch the video (I am assuming its the same as was on the news), it says police saw the what they believed to be this car (based upon color, no license, loud...its not street legal) on highway going in excess of 100mph. The police said that they were not authorized to pursue cars like this.

Why would this be? Is there something specific that police shouldn't pursue cars that are too fast or going too fast? This doesnt make sense to me.

-Dana
LIABILITY, When depts are run by liability lawyers they will prohibit virtually anything they see as opening the City or county to a potential lawsuit.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:58   #4
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Well...now I know I can speed and police wont chase me as long as I go fast enough.....



Or I will just go to Germany to drive fast..may need a beer run....

-Dana
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:02   #5
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The target of a civil lawsuit is not the guilty party, but the deepest pockets.
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:28   #6
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The target of a civil lawsuit is not the guilty party, but the deepest pockets.
True True.

-Dana
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:37   #7
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Not pursuing, on a highway, at 100mph seems stupid to me. 100mph is not fast (depending upon traffic).

-Dana
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:49   #8
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This man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Yagman has made millions suing police departments and he is just one of many like that in CA.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:46   #9
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The rule makers have decided that a little more crime is okay, as long as no one blames them for the other guy's acts. The other guys have discovered that they just need to be a little more reckless, and they're left alone.

Sucks to be you.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:47   #10
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There were a few paragraphs about this in the book Blink, written by Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote The Tipping Point. The section in general dealt with the poor decision making that occurs during extreme stress or excitement. He said that about 300 people are killed each year because of high speed chases, and that both criminals and police officers often make very poor judgements because of physiological changes that occur during these events: hightened pulse rates, tunnel vision, predatory cardiovascular reactions. This can lead to both criminals and officers doing ill-considered things which lead to someone getting killed or hurt.

Lawsuits can certainly result, but there is also concern about innocent people and police officers, (and the criminals) getting hurt or killed. I know we will hear countervailing reasons allowing the pursuits, but it is not just lawsuits that drive the policies; it is also not wanting to expose the citizenry to unnecessary risk.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:55   #11
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Originally Posted by Knute View Post
Many departments, including most in Colorado, have adopted a limited pursuit policy. Even though legally law enforcement can pursue anybody who flees, most departments have been sued from pursuits that ended up with someone getting hurt and/or killed. So many have modified their policies to allow pursuits only for violent felonies (people crimes) as opposed to property crimes (ie. stolen cars). Yes this frustrates us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
LIABILITY, When depts are run by liability lawyers they will prohibit virtually anything they see as opening the City or county to a potential lawsuit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
The rule makers have decided that a little more crime is okay, as long as no one blames them for the other guy's acts. The other guys have discovered that they just need to be a little more reckless, and they're left alone.

Sucks to be you.
I think all of the above are correct. Which one is the dominant reason depends on your level of cynicism...

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Old 05-22-2011, 00:04   #12
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Originally Posted by teleblaster View Post
There were a few paragraphs about this in the book Blink, written by Malcolm Gladwell, who wrote The Tipping Point. The section in general dealt with the poor decision making that occurs during extreme stress or excitement. He said that about 300 people are killed each year because of high speed chases, and that both criminals and police officers often make very poor judgements because of physiological changes that occur during these events: hightened pulse rates, tunnel vision, predatory cardiovascular reactions. This can lead to both criminals and officers doing ill-considered things which lead to someone getting killed or hurt.

Lawsuits can certainly result, but there is also concern about innocent people and police officers, (and the criminals) getting hurt or killed. I know we will hear countervailing reasons allowing the pursuits, but it is not just lawsuits that drive the policies; it is also not wanting to expose the citizenry to unnecessary risk.
Good evening fellas,
This seems to support my position in a previous thread for which I was severely excoriated. I don't mind. I know you're just kiddin'.
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Old 05-22-2011, 00:33   #13
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Well, there are sometimes alternatives. They may speed but Motorola is still faster. In one case, the driver was detained and then arrested when he finally got home and a deputy that IDed him met with the other deputies who detained him. And, yes, pursuits are dangerous for too many people so, like most things, cops need to figure out ways around the issue. They are generally smarter than the bad guys.
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:59   #14
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They are generally smarter than the bad guys.
I'm sure the bad guys will figure out to remove or cover their plates, so no more showing up at the registered owner's home at a later time.
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Old 05-22-2011, 02:40   #15
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LIABILITY, When depts are run by liability lawyers they will prohibit virtually anything they see as opening the City or county to a potential lawsuit.
LOP - Liability Oriented Policing

Switched plates, altered plates, stolen plates - plates are not reliable.

We're limited to BAARRKK for pursuing: Burglary, Arson, serious Assault, Rape, Robbery, Kidnapping, Killing. The bad guys know this so they run even more.
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Old 05-22-2011, 23:48   #16
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The target of a civil lawsuit is not the guilty party, but the deepest pockets.
As always TBO hits it right on the head with an infamous one liner.

Well played my friend...Well played.
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Old 05-23-2011, 00:20   #17
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Well, there are sometimes alternatives. They may speed but Motorola is still faster. In one case, the driver was detained and then arrested when he finally got home and a deputy that IDed him met with the other deputies who detained him. And, yes, pursuits are dangerous for too many people so, like most things, cops need to figure out ways around the issue. They are generally smarter than the bad guys.
How does that work with a stolen car, that doesn't have plates?

I bet the likelyhood of a stolen car showing back up at the owner's house is just about nil.

But thanx for your brainstorming.
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Old 05-23-2011, 01:18   #18
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What about if you work in an area where every car is registered to some 68 yr old lady who lives two counties away? I stop so few cars where the driver is the registered owner, that it is worth sharing with my back up when it pops up on the MDT. Not to mention, only a moron drives straight back to the house, after being in a chase. Most of ours set the car on fire, then report it stolen.
I'm glad that I work in an area that still chases everything. I can recall several robbery and burglary suspects that were caught after a chase, where the initial reason for stop was a tag lamp out, or no turn signal. We once chased a car for unlawful lane change , that at the end of the pursuit, had a dead chick in the bed of the pick up. Some times they are just running because they dont have a DL, sometimes its because they just shot someone. If you dont catch them, you may never find out.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:58   #19
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I love our pursuit policy: "chase'em till the wheels fall off". Actually, it's up to the officer involved and the LT to determine who chases what for how long. Case by case basis.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:17   #20
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Our policy is now "Crime dangerous to life." It used to be "Felony dangerous to life." But since you can shoot at someone here (ADW) and miss, it's considered a misdemeanor. That's one of the primary reasons we can now chase crimes dangerous to life. Yes, the bad guys knew this. When they changed the policy, that meant we could now chase burglary suspects as well. The first few pursuits following that the suspects kept saying "You can't chase us for burglary, it's not a felony dangerous to life."

And yes, chase policies are only restricted by the departments due to liability.
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