[squirreld]

after a month or so of playing around with the new 650 and 9mm's I have 3 issues. may or may not be considered a problem for some of you.

1 - 1 out of every 250 rounds will have a smashed primer in the pocket sideways (nothing major, just annoying). Am I doing something wrong?

2 - inspecting a few rounds indicates that the bullet is being seated off axis from the case. When you spin the case, you can see the neck go from being straight down the side of the case to bulged. I'm running a redding comp. pro seater. Every so often I have to really pull on the ram in order to cycle it. For 9mm's it seams really hard as if something is wrong. I believe this off center seating of the bullet to case is causing all the tension. Thoughts suggestions?

3 - OAL varies by about +- .005. when aiming for 1.15, I can get 1.145 on 1 round and 1.155 on the next. I've measured as high as 1.65 to 1.4.
Many of you suggest this is normal or that its from bullet length variations.
However when I ran 223's through the press set up for resize only, I saw the same variations on cartridge headspace measurements.

I have the sizer adjusted so that it does NOT touch the shellplate.

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by squirreld

after a month or so of playing around with the new 650 and 9mm's I have 3 issues. may or may not be considered a problem for some of you.

1 - 1 out of every 250 rounds will have a smashed primer in the pocket sideways (nothing major, just annoying). Am I doing something wrong?

2 - inspecting a few rounds indicates that the bullet is being seated off axis from the case. When you spin the case, you can see the neck go from being straight down the side of the case to bulged. I'm running a redding comp. pro seater. Every so often I have to really pull on the ram in order to cycle it. For 9mm's it seams really hard as if something is wrong. I believe this off center seating of the bullet to case is causing all the tension. Thoughts suggestions?

3 - OAL varies by about +- .005. when aiming for 1.15, I can get 1.145 on 1 round and 1.155 on the next. I've measured as high as 1.65 to 1.4.
Many of you suggest this is normal or that its from bullet length variations.
However when I ran 223's through the press set up for resize only, I saw the same variations on cartridge headspace measurements.

I have the sizer adjusted so that it does NOT touch the shellplate.

How often do you clean and lube your shellplate bolt? If your not running a bearing kit it's always a very fine line between the shellplate freely spinning. You may have an alignment issue. Give Dillon a call and have them send you he tool and instructions. I would however clean and lube the press first and pay particular attention to the primer assembly, remove the clip and wheel clean and relube.
Your OAL varience is great, assuming your using mixed brass, a bullets ogive will have variences too. (what bullet are you using?) Of course your headspace will also vary, it's a progressive press. Use a headspace gauge to verify your within range.
I believe you may not be flaring enough causing your off axis issue. The sticking of the ram, when it happens check the case just flared... S&B or FC brass is known to have issues with the flaring/powder drop.... clean and polish and it will help.

[Bob2223]

Originally Posted by unclebob

To some of use. We would call that problematic.

I'm just sayin

Bob

[WiskyT]

You bullets' nose shape likely doesn't fit your seater stem properly and the bullets are tipping.

Your OAL is fine, it's a $0.10 round of ammunition, it's not going to have the precision of custom machined high-speed bearing.

I don't know about the primer issue as I've only used mine a little and it has been fine.

[GioaJack]

I call shenanigans, 650's don't have problems... just ask Unclebob and Little Stevie.

I'm off to class... never quit trying to learn.


Jack

[unclebob]

What BG said. Plus if you are using new or even once fired brass you can get brass mouth sticking on the powder funnel. Polishing of the funnel might help. Shell plate adjustment is very important and also having a sturdy bench goes a long way in curing the primmer issue. Also make sure the two screws that hold the platform on the ram are tight. They can and do over time loosen up. Have you ever taken off the indexer block? That will screw up the timing.

[shotgunred]

1 - 1 out of every 250 rounds will have a smashed primer in the pocket sideways (nothing major, just annoying). Am I doing something wrong?

Two things
1. make sure you are using the right primer tube. I had similar issues when I started with my 550 and found that the large primer tube would allow the primers to rotate some as they went through the tube.
2. Some 9mm is military brass and will have a crimped primer. you need to inspect the brass to find out what the issue is.

2 - inspecting a few rounds indicates that the bullet is being seated off axis from the case. When you spin the case, you can see the neck go from being straight down the side of the case to bulged. I'm running a redding comp. pro seater.

1. make sure that your flair is enough to properly seat the bullet.
2. clean your die!
3.make sure you have the right side of the seater facing down for the rounds you are using.

Every so often I have to really pull on the ram in order to cycle it. For 9mm's it seams really hard as if something is wrong. I believe this off center seating of the bullet to case is causing all the tension. Thoughts suggestions?

Stop! if cycling the press suddenly gets hard stop. Something is not right and right then is the time to find out what.

3 - OAL varies by about +- .005. when aiming for 1.15, I can get 1.145 on 1 round and 1.155 on the next. I've measured as high as 1.65 to 1.4.
Many of you suggest this is normal or that its from bullet length variations.
However when I ran 223's through the press set up for resize only, I saw the same variations on cartridge headspace measurements.

You are never going to eliminate OAL variances using a progressive machine but you can get them lower. Also realize that the first and last five are going to have the most variances.
1.Make sure your shellplate is adjusted right.
2.Make sure that your dies are locknuted tight in the press.
3.Make sure you take a full down stroke on the press every time.

[StaTiK]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

I call shenanigans, 650's don't have problems... just ask Unclebob and Little Stevie.

[banjobob]

Give Dillon a call, they are extremely knowledgeable and very helpful, not a call to India.

I've seen some tool heads being sold that are made to a much higher level of precision, also there are some kits that screw/bolt the tool head into position so there is no movement. I've not tried either, but would love to hear from someone who has.

You must also remember the Dillon will load very good ammo very quickly, but its never as good as single stage press and weighing each charge. It's a give and a take.

[shotgunred]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

I call shenanigans, 650's don't have problems... just ask Unclebob and Little Stevie.

I'm off to class... never quit trying to learn.


Jack

His issues are his Redding competition pro seating die not his Dillion.
Dillions are always perfect.

[PCJim]

Originally Posted by shotgunred

Two things
1. make sure you are using the right primer tube. I had similar issues when I started with my 550 and found that the large primer tube would allow the primers to rotate some as they went through the tube.
2. Some 9mm is military brass and will have a crimped primer. you need to inspect the brass to find out what the issue is.


1. make sure that your flair is enough to properly seat the bullet.
2. clean your die!
3.make sure you have the right side of the seater facing down for the rounds you are using.



Stop! if cycling the press suddenly gets hard stop. Something is not right and right then is the time to find out what.



You are never going to eliminate OAL variances using a progressive machine but you can get them lower. Also realize that the first and last five are going to have the most variances.
1.Make sure your shellplate is adjusted right.
2.Make sure that your dies are locknuted tight in the press.
3.Make sure you take a full down stroke on the press every time.

nothing further to add...

[squirreld]

the press is new, about 1200 rounds of 9mm thru it.
I'm using 9mm to to get all the bugs out and learn the press more before I move onto the more important calibers, 5.56 and 7.62.

mixed once fired brass that I fired.
precision delta 124 fmj's (redding seater should be spot on with this).
I have a slight bell, nothing to large, most bullets fit it nice while some I have to push a little before seating.
Ill readjust the shell plate and clean the expander funnel and seater die.

Do dillon's cam over?

[Colorado4Wheel]

1) Get the Sizer Just touching the shellplate with out a case in the shellplate.
2) Set your flare to .010" Not sure what you got.
3) Check your primer system for the right primer tube, and disc on the press.
4) Check the disc for burrs.

[shotgunred]

The seating die needs to push the bullet down to the right height. But the flair needs to be open enough so that the bullet plops down into the flared area of the brass without you needing to push it in.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Are those PD bullets a little Oily? If so. Reclean seater and tumble the bullets.

[unclebob]

Now that the race is over. Also make sure that your primer station locator tab is set right. The easy way that I have found to set the shell plate is run the shellplate bolt all the way down then lower the handle until the ring indexer clears indexer block. Leaving the Allen wrench in the bolt, holding on to both the Allen wrench and handle throughout the whole process. Raise the handle. When the ring indexer ring hits the block everything will stop. Now slowly loosen the bolt. The handle well fall forward, then loosen the bolt about 1/16” more. Then raise and lower the handle a couple of times just to make sure there is no binding. If it does, turn the Allen wrench 1/16” more. Make sure you still have a hold of the Allen wrench. Then tighten the brass tip set screw. Then check for binding again.
After you have all of your dies adjusted right loosen all of the lock rings. With a case appropriate for each station, raise the ram then lock all of the lock rings back down. Then recheck to make sure that no settings have changed. A deep well socket works a lot better than a wrench in doing this.

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by shotgunred

Two things
1. make sure you are using the right primer tube. I had similar issues when I started with my 550 and found that the large primer tube would allow the primers to rotate some as they went through the tube.
2. Some 9mm is military brass and will have a crimped primer. you need to inspect the brass to find out what the issue is.


1. make sure that your flair is enough to properly seat the bullet.
2. clean your die!
3.make sure you have the right side of the seater facing down for the rounds you are using.



Stop! if cycling the press suddenly gets hard stop. Something is not right and right then is the time to find out what.



You are never going to eliminate OAL variances using a progressive machine but you can get them lower. Also realize that the first and last five are going to have the most variances.
1.Make sure your shellplate is adjusted right.
2.Make sure that your dies are locknuted tight in the press.
3.Make sure you take a full down stroke on the press every time.

I get a very consistent C.O.A.L. Near the same 99% of the time. I think it varies on the Dillon due to the slop. Before we get into a fight, i am not bagging just stating how i see it. The only time my coal differs is when im loading rifle and in station 5 i use the LFCD. Not much, but if I'm loading for accuracy i remove LCFD and run rounds through it later.

[Colorado4Wheel]

My OAL is 1.078-1.080. With a crappy Lee seating die.

ElNino. The "slop" is a non-issue. I defy anyone fill a shell plate on any decent press with the crimp, flare, sizing and seating stations full, leave the handle in the down position and feel any "slop". Take a look at a LCT, it has a rotating head (with way more ''slop" and it will still seat consistently. The ONLY thing that matters is that the tool head returns to the same spot every time. With a case in the station the tool head will rise a little bit and it won't be touching the sizing die hard if at all.

I am going to guess that his Seating die is a poor match for his bullets or he is using his press as a SS some times and a Progressive other times. That is what normally leads to a .010" difference. Even on a LnL. Don't make me bust out a link on you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116293

[Myke_Hart]

A LNL could have prevented this....

[shotgunred]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

I get a very consistent C.O.A.L. Near the same 99% of the time. I think it varies on the Dillon due to the slop. Before we get into a fight, i am not bagging just stating how i see it. The only time my coal differs is when im loading rifle and in station 5 i use the LFCD. Not much, but if I'm loading for accuracy i remove LCFD and run rounds through it later.

No fight here one of the main reasons I bought a LNL in the first place was that solid chunck of cast up top.

[StaTiK]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

I get a very consistent C.O.A.L. Near the same 99% of the time.

lol, that reminds me of "80% of the time it works every time".

-StaTiK-

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel

My OAL is 1.078-1.080. With a crappy Lee seating die.

ElNino. The "slop" is a non-issue. I defy anyone fill a shell plate on any decent press with the crimp, flare, sizing and seating stations full, leave the handle in the down position and feel any "slop". Take a look at a LCT, it has a rotating head (with way more ''slop" and it will still seat consistently. The ONLY thing that matters is that the tool head returns to the same spot every time. With a case in the station the tool head will rise a little bit and it won't be touching the sizing die hard if at all.

I am going to guess that his Seating die is a poor match for his bullets or he is using his press as a SS some times and a Progressive other times. That is what normally leads to a .010" difference. Even on a LnL. Don't make me bust out a link on you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116293

That guy has a really nice caliper.

[Boxerglocker]

I wouldn't call 0.005 +/- variance in OAL with mixed 9mm brass a problem. Especially a progressive press with a floating tool-head. I get 0.002-3 with a clamped tool-head and FMJ's and sorted brass. No biggie at all...
Like Steve mentioned his bullet profile most likely is not matching his seating stem and/or he's not flaring enough to begin with.
As far as 99% consistency goes, consistent as your "exactly at your target OAL 99 out of every 100 bullets with zero variance" or as "consistent within a range" as the OP is are two different things. I would tend to believe that the majority of us here loading on any progressive press understand and use the second definition.

[ron59]

My 550B came with the LARGE primer feed tube installed. I had occasional problems also. Make sure you check that. You want the small feeder tube installed.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by shotgunred

No fight here one of the main reasons I bought a LNL in the first place was that solid chunck of cast up top.

Yet my machinist buddy complains about the flex or slop in the LNL. He has gaged & measure everything 100x, thinks it's in the linkage. ANy tool heas slop in the Dilon is easily fixed by shimming or peening the tool head. Most OAL variation comes form using mixed brass of varying age, new vs 10x fired.