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Old 05-29-2011, 23:05   #26
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I wish it were that easy... There are black and white cases, which I am sure that everyone here would agree should be dealt with harshly. It's the gray area cases that are much harder. If you've never experienced it for yourself, you'd find it hard to understand. The bigger problem is that many members of management, in their zeal to make rank, never spent any appreciable time in the field to know what constitutes black, white and gray.
That pretty much sums my thoughts up. Plus, in my little neighborhood, we get a lot of cases where someone puts paper on someone for less than honorable reasons, and it is often out of meanness and spite, with little or no truthful basis. So, my answer would be, in cut and dried examples of 1 through 4, most definitely NO, without a doubt. But I'm not one to go off half-cocked on just a hunch, and I choose my battles as wisely as possible. Sometimes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 05-29-2011, 23:51   #27
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No, no, no, and hell no!

My opinion is that if you have to do those things, you are no better than those thugs and as a matter of fact, you're worse since you are abusing the public trust when doing it. You make a clean case or you don't make it at all. A good investigator will make his case without resorting to dirty tactics.

The legacy of Rodney King, OJ Simpson, and Rampart haunts us all. It is incumbent upon us to do it better and do it clean.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 05-30-2011, 00:12   #28
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I am not a cop yet, but I plan to be in the next couple of years and I absolutely wouldn't allow that to go on if I knew for sure it was happening.
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Old 05-30-2011, 00:59   #29
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There has been A LOT of accusations lately (by you know who...) of a officer KNOWING of fellow officers committing crimes involving "planting evidence, falsifying reports, bad shoots (murder: planting a gun to justify) and so on. My questions are pretty straight forward.....

(1) Would you allow any of the above to happen OR continue to happen if/when you found out what was going on?

(2) Are there any circumstances that might persuade you to overlook the above?

(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?

(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?
Let me answer all 4 questions with one answer.

A fellow officer once made a comment to me that was: " You would write your own Grandmother a ticket, wouldn't you."

MY answer: Yes, if she messed up enough.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:20   #30
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Let me answer all 4 questions with one answer.

A fellow officer once made a comment to me that was: " You would write your own Grandmother a ticket, wouldn't you."

MY answer: Yes, if she messed up enough.
I wouldn't.
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:19   #31
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I wish it were that easy... There are black and white cases, which I am sure that everyone here would agree should be dealt with harshly. It's the gray area cases that are much harder. If you've never experienced it for yourself, you'd find it hard to understand. The bigger problem is that many members of management, in their zeal to make rank, never spent any appreciable time in the field to know what constitutes black, white and gray.

I knew an officer who was arrested for muder for hire. To me this was a no brainer. Likewise, I knew an officer who was arrested for murder. Again a no brainer. I've known several who were involved in the Rampart scandal and did prison time for running drugs, planting evidence, and a number of other crimes. But what about Rodney King? Anyone here (besides me) ever see the entire video? Anyone here besides me know what happened to the other officers in the video, aside from the ones who were tried and aquitted in court? Twenty years later, the legacy of Rodney King haunts me. How about you?
If I recall correctly, two of the cops who hit most of the "home runs"......(a quote from one of the cops) were sentenced to 72 months in Federal prison (after being found "not guilty" by a brain-dead Simi Valley jury that consisted mostly of cops' relatives, cops' friends & cops' neighbors.)
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:32   #32
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If I recall correctly, two of the cops who hit most of the "home runs"......(a quote from one of the cops) were sentenced to 72 months in Federal prison (after being found "not guilty" by a brain-dead Simi Valley jury that consisted mostly of cops' relatives, cops' friends & cops' neighbors.)
Negative, you recall wrong, and to call the jury "brain dead," is contemptuous. To say that they consisted mostly of relatives, friends and neighbors is just ignorant.
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:53   #33
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Negative, you recall wrong, and to call the jury "brain dead," is contemptuous. To say that they consisted mostly of relatives, friends and neighbors is just ignorant.
Yup....Slimy....oops, I mean Simi Valley was simply chosen by chance - not because so many cops live there.

A jury that allows their own prejudices to interfere with their decision making is brain dead. Likewise for police officers who cause a habitual felon to have ALL charges dropped, and helps him win a $3,800,000.00 payday (more than those four moron cops will ever see in their lifetimes).

If you recall correctly, the second "higher IQ" jury found two of them guilty.
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Old 05-30-2011, 03:19   #34
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Originally Posted by AA#5 View Post
Yup....Slimy....oops, I mean Simi Valley was simply chosen by chance - not because so many cops live there.

A jury that allows their own prejudices to interfere with their decision making is brain dead. Likewise for police officers who cause a habitual felon to have ALL charges dropped, and helps him win a $3,800,000.00 payday (more than those four moron cops will ever see in their lifetimes).

If you recall correctly, the second "higher IQ" jury found two of them guilty.
Wow... Were you there when it happened or were you in the jury deliberation room? You seem like you know more than all the cops here. Did you watch the whole video as SAR or did you have access to the various investigative files?

The higher IQ jury, the acquittal, the whole BS, was all race pimping and political pandering at its finest. Whatever you might think, you don't know.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:43   #35
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Yup....Slimy....oops, I mean Simi Valley was simply chosen by chance - not because so many cops live there.

A jury that allows their own prejudices to interfere with their decision making is brain dead. Likewise for police officers who cause a habitual felon to have ALL charges dropped, and helps him win a $3,800,000.00 payday (more than those four moron cops will ever see in their lifetimes).[/B][/I]

If you recall correctly, the second "higher IQ" jury found two of them guilty.
If you can't make an argument based on facts or merit, it's much easier just to resort to insults. Speaks volumes about your credibility. Have a good day...
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:48   #36
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Absolutely NO, NO, NO and NO. For Q#4, the only exception is traffic offense, where it's up to my discretion. When I was 17 and only had my DL for a few months, a cop used his discretion (otherwise I would have lost my DL until 21). He didn't know me from a hole in the wall, so he didn't have to. I've always remembered that.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:30   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
Let me answer all 4 questions with one answer.

A fellow officer once made a comment to me that was: " You would write your own Grandmother a ticket, wouldn't you."

MY answer: Yes, if she messed up enough.
I wouldn't.
I can't say that I wouldn't.... I've never met his grandmother. She might have it coming.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:41   #38
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On Rodney King.... I've seen the whole video too, and it surprises me that after 20 years most people have still only seen 5-10 seconds of it. It is a complete myth that King was just laying there as the cops beat on him. It was a fight the whole time. The interesting thing is even the Federal jury found that the vast majority of strikes were reasonable. It was only the last 3-4 hits that they found to be unreasonable. It's easy to see why the state jury acquitted them.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:57   #39
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My answer to the OP's original four questions, especially in a semi- public forum, is of course "No."

Would I flush my career away in protest if the powers that be chose to do nothing about it after I informed them? That answer is also "No."

Which, I suppose, in practice makes my answer to question #3, a "Yes."

Quote:
(3) Would you be able to face another day knowing you were able to stop the unlawful actions of a bad officer but allowed him/them to continue their illegal activities?
Actually, now that I think about it, it was always a "Yes." Sorry, but I don't have it in me to carry around a bunch of guilt for others' bad behavior. I do what's right and set the best example for others that I can and I most certainly would report the misconduct. But the question is phrased as if we'd be expected to either quit or kill ourselves if we couldn't stop all the dirty cops in the world that we knew of. That's not happening. For one thing, if all the good cops quit or kill themselves then where would we be as a society?

Quote:
(4) While I'm sure most/all LEOs here would uphold the law are there ANY reasons you wouldn't?
I'm going to change my answer here as well. There are, of course, hundreds of reasons why any of us might choose to excercise our discretion not to enforce the letter of the law given the totality of the circumstances. Yes, this applies to fellow LEOs who get a pass on traffic tickets from me, but it also applies to civilians in numerous situations.

The victim of a rape I'm getting ready to interview at the hospital reaches into her purse to get her id card and a baggie of weed falls out. The law demands that she be charged for the offense of possession of marijuana in order for the law to be considered "upheld." I doubt many of us would physically arrest her for it, but how many would still cite her? How many would flush the weed?

Like it or not, this job is about the different shades of gray and the toughest decisions are faced at the lighter end of the scale. Would I help an officer cover up a murder? No, of course not. Would I drive an off- duty officer home who's DUI? Yes. Now that same officer has showed up for duty two days later and you believe that he's intoxicated again, which means he was DUI in a patrol car on his way to work. What would you do?
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:40   #40
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Dukeboy01,
The thing you are referring to would be considered minor IMHO. You are talking about having some compassion for a victim. I'm only talking about knowing fellow officers were murdering people, planting weapon and evidence to make it good.
And reporting the misconduct in facts means you did "something"...which is more than the person I'm referring to did.

So if any of you can tell me why the person referenced by this thread would do ALL of the 4 things and then whine and cry about how corrupt the PD/SOs are when he did NOTHING to ATTEMPT to bring it to light....please do. I was military SP, not civi PD so I can not guess on that level. I do know that 98% of people that have hatred for a group is because they either couldn't make the cut and are bitter OR have been a victim of that group. I would not call him a victim because he did not personally suffer from the actions of that group. That only leaves 1 other base to build on, he couldn't cut it and is bitter.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:44   #41
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My answers are all no too. It isn't much of a life going around breaking the law. I have no idea why people do.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:28   #42
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My Answer to all are "No". But I can say that 20 years ago both Police and Military were run much different. The way I was brought up as an Infantry soldier 20 years ago is nothing like today. I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.

Laws change and so does what it seen as norms. A bad one should be ratted out or forced to leave. But then you have those that rat on things that violate nothing and some times that gets old too.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:54   #43
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Wow... Were you there when it happened or were you in the jury deliberation room? You seem like you know more than all the cops here. Did you watch the whole video as SAR or did you have access to the various investigative files?

The higher IQ jury, the acquittal, the whole BS, was all race pimping and political pandering at its finest. Whatever you might think, you don't know.
Thank you for your unbiased opinion.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:00   #44
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Thank you for your unbiased opinion.
Wow. We were all thinking the same thing about you.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:13   #45
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No. But you better be damn sure. The real world isn't as obvious as the textbook ethics lessons or Hollywood screenplay might make you think.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:16   #46
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This is not a Rodney King, right or wrong thread AA#5. We're talking about officers knowing and doing nothing, not cases that have been decided in the courts. And also, thanks for everyone that has given input.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:19   #47
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I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.
Come to think of it...that is a very true statement.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:36   #48
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Wow. We were all thinking the same thing about you.
Speak only for yourself, please.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:37   #49
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<-Non LEO

While it's a fascinating question, it winds up as just feel good thread, there's only one type of answer. Sure, there's some nice commentary from SAR about gray but it's not a topic you can discuss on an open forum. Someone would always take what you have to say and twist it out of context.
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:38   #50
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This is not a Rodney King, right or wrong thread AA#5. We're talking about officers knowing and doing nothing, not cases that have been decided in the courts. And also, thanks for everyone that has given input.
In his defense, AA#5 didn't bring up Rodney King, I did. But I submit to you that it *is* all about that type of incident. If it hadn't been televised on all the news stations, and had you been a bystander officer, would you have reported this incident to the higher ups or not?
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