Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2011, 08:44   #41
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,853
My answers are all no too. It isn't much of a life going around breaking the law. I have no idea why people do.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 10:28   #42
Cav
Senior Member
 
Cav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 2,266
My Answer to all are "No". But I can say that 20 years ago both Police and Military were run much different. The way I was brought up as an Infantry soldier 20 years ago is nothing like today. I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.

Laws change and so does what it seen as norms. A bad one should be ratted out or forced to leave. But then you have those that rat on things that violate nothing and some times that gets old too.
__________________
We need more restrictions on the 1st Amendment and less on the 2nd Amendment.
Cav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 10:54   #43
AA#5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Wow... Were you there when it happened or were you in the jury deliberation room? You seem like you know more than all the cops here. Did you watch the whole video as SAR or did you have access to the various investigative files?

The higher IQ jury, the acquittal, the whole BS, was all race pimping and political pandering at its finest. Whatever you might think, you don't know.
Thank you for your unbiased opinion.
AA#5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:00   #44
SpoiledBySig
Senior Member
 
SpoiledBySig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Port St. Lucie, FL
Posts: 1,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA#5 View Post
Thank you for your unbiased opinion.
Wow. We were all thinking the same thing about you.
__________________
That's my story...and i'm stickin' to it!!!

Last edited by SpoiledBySig; 05-30-2011 at 11:01..
SpoiledBySig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:13   #45
Sam Spade
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
Sam Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 21,210
No. But you better be damn sure. The real world isn't as obvious as the textbook ethics lessons or Hollywood screenplay might make you think.
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
Sam Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:16   #46
USAFE7
Retired USAF-SP
 
USAFE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 181
This is not a Rodney King, right or wrong thread AA#5. We're talking about officers knowing and doing nothing, not cases that have been decided in the courts. And also, thanks for everyone that has given input.
__________________
1911 G22
USAFE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:19   #47
USAFE7
Retired USAF-SP
 
USAFE7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cav View Post
I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.
Come to think of it...that is a very true statement.
__________________
1911 G22

Last edited by USAFE7; 05-30-2011 at 11:20..
USAFE7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:36   #48
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoiledBySig View Post
Wow. We were all thinking the same thing about you.
Speak only for yourself, please.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:37   #49
GPalmer
CLM Number 49
Charter Lifetime Member
 
GPalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,029
<-Non LEO

While it's a fascinating question, it winds up as just feel good thread, there's only one type of answer. Sure, there's some nice commentary from SAR about gray but it's not a topic you can discuss on an open forum. Someone would always take what you have to say and twist it out of context.
__________________
BigPhil - Pugs are furry and absorbent. Like a little barking tampon.
craig_o - Nothing says blind date like a graveyard and a shovel.
OxCops - Your mind, like a retarded kid and a fist-throwing crackhead, should be well restrained.....
GPalmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:38   #50
SAR
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
SAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 2,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFE7 View Post
This is not a Rodney King, right or wrong thread AA#5. We're talking about officers knowing and doing nothing, not cases that have been decided in the courts. And also, thanks for everyone that has given input.
In his defense, AA#5 didn't bring up Rodney King, I did. But I submit to you that it *is* all about that type of incident. If it hadn't been televised on all the news stations, and had you been a bystander officer, would you have reported this incident to the higher ups or not?
__________________
Death is lighter than a feather, while duty is heavier than a mountain.
SAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:39   #51
ateamer
NRA4EVR
 
ateamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In the hallway - it's on cuz!
Posts: 14,832
If you think the Simi Valley jury was comprised of LEO's and family members, you are not aware of, or deliberately ignoring, the truth. Read Lou Cannon's book "Official Negligence" if you are interested in learning what really happened in court, and why. If you are relying on accounts from the news media, you are missing out on 90% of the facts.
__________________
Firearms instructor/Glock armorer
Airplane pilot - Commercial/Instrument rating
49er Faithful
Know-it-all
ateamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:40   #52
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,228
Originally Posted by Cav
I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.

This is part of what I alluded to previously. Even today, there are shades of gray. How many of us have talked about how we articulate our report, or statement, for example?
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:40   #53
RetailNinja
Senior Member
 
RetailNinja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tuktoyaktuk
Posts: 1,420
Send a message via AIM to RetailNinja
No to all, unless I was Jeremy Renner's character in SWAT. Then I'd say yes.
__________________
Conservatism is a cardiac disorder - Brietbart
Liberalism is a mental disorder - Savage
RetailNinja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:42   #54
GPalmer
CLM Number 49
Charter Lifetime Member
 
GPalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
Speak only for yourself, please.
He can speak for me also...
__________________
BigPhil - Pugs are furry and absorbent. Like a little barking tampon.
craig_o - Nothing says blind date like a graveyard and a shovel.
OxCops - Your mind, like a retarded kid and a fist-throwing crackhead, should be well restrained.....
GPalmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:44   #55
GPalmer
CLM Number 49
Charter Lifetime Member
 
GPalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR View Post
In his defense, AA#5 didn't bring up Rodney King, I did. But I submit to you that it *is* all about that type of incident. If it hadn't been televised on all the news stations, and had you been a bystander officer, would you have reported this incident to the higher ups or not?
Naw, let's try a tough one. What if you had a partner you knew was in the middle of a tough time and was about to drive a block and a half home? I don't actually want an answer, but I think it's a better example of the gray areas you mentioned.
__________________
BigPhil - Pugs are furry and absorbent. Like a little barking tampon.
craig_o - Nothing says blind date like a graveyard and a shovel.
OxCops - Your mind, like a retarded kid and a fist-throwing crackhead, should be well restrained.....
GPalmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:53   #56
SAR
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
SAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 2,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPalmer View Post
Naw, let's try a tough one. What if you had a partner you knew was in the middle of a tough time and was about to drive a block and a half home? I don't actually want an answer, but I think it's a better example of the gray areas you mentioned.
Our Department has so criminalized drunk driving that the answer to that would actually be easy. We have a zero tolerance policy on drunk driving so the answer to your question has largely been taken out of our hands. Same goes for domestic violence. There is no more telling anyone to "walk off" an argument. If D/V happens in an officer's home, there will be severe repercussions. So to me, those are easy to answer. Again, the hardest issues I continue to grapple with are what constitutes reasonable and unreasonable force, what constitutes reasonable and unreasonable searches and seizure. Those to me are the gray areas...
__________________
Death is lighter than a feather, while duty is heavier than a mountain.
SAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:56   #57
Snowman92D
Senior Member
 
Snowman92D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 4,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFE7 View Post
Do insurgents count?
They do indeed. Every little bit helps. Thanks for helping to police that AO.
Snowman92D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:58   #58
msu_grad_121
BOOSH
 
msu_grad_121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NW Burbs
Posts: 2,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
Originally Posted by Cav
I have met some NYPD officers, State Troopers, Texas Rangers, and others that today would be called dirty, but back then would have been great LEO's.

This is part of what I alluded to previously. Even today, there are shades of gray. How many of us have talked about how we articulate our report, or statement, for example?
See, I don't think it's the same thing to write a report so as to articulate what happened in very technical terms, as long as it's not an out-and-out lie. If you punched the guy in the side of the head and stated that you struck him in or around the head area, that's one thing. But if you straight up deny that it happened, that's a whole different story.

As for the King tape, I have to admit I haven't seen the whole thing, but yeah the snippet that's been played over and over ad nauseum makes it look bad. But how hard is it to take something along those lines, show it out of context and make it look terrible?

There are definitely shades of gray, but as has been previously mentioned, that's when discretion comes into play. You don't get that opportunity when it involves theft, planting of evidence, murder, etc. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
__________________
The name on the left side of your chest represents who you work for. The name on the right side of your chest represents who raised you. Make them both proud.
msu_grad_121 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 12:05   #59
SAR
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
SAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 2,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
See, I don't think it's the same thing to write a report so as to articulate what happened in very technical terms, as long as it's not an out-and-out lie. If you punched the guy in the side of the head and stated that you struck him in or around the head area, that's one thing. But if you straight up deny that it happened, that's a whole different story.
Actually, I have known a few officers fired and even charged criminally for "omission" of facts without lying. If you are vague when it comes to certain aspects of search and seizure, and uses of force, and it is found that you omitted key facts, it will be dealt with just as harshly as if you lied.

Using your example above, we have a policy against punching a suspect in the throat in most use of force situations. If I wanted to be vague, I could say I punched the suspect in the extreme upper torso. It wouldn't be a lie, but again, it would be omitting a key fact, which is you punched the suspect in the throat.


Quote:
As for the King tape, I have to admit I haven't seen the whole thing, but yeah the snippet that's been played over and over ad nauseum makes it look bad. But how hard is it to take something along those lines, show it out of context and make it look terrible?
We're police officers, not ballerinas. Uses of force are never meant to look pretty. It's not hard at all.
__________________
Death is lighter than a feather, while duty is heavier than a mountain.

Last edited by SAR; 05-30-2011 at 12:06..
SAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 12:06   #60
GPalmer
CLM Number 49
Charter Lifetime Member
 
GPalmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR View Post
Our Department has so criminalized drunk driving that the answer to that would actually be easy. We have a zero tolerance policy on drunk driving so the answer to your question has largely been taken out of our hands. Same goes for domestic violence. There is no more telling anyone to "walk off" an argument. If D/V happens in an officer's home, there will be severe repercussions. So to me, those are easy to answer. Again, the hardest issues I continue to grapple with are what constitutes reasonable and unreasonable force, what constitutes reasonable and unreasonable searches and seizure. Those to me are the gray areas...
OK, bad example on my part. I was looking for something with a low probability of damage that was "impulsive" behavior (instead of systemic) if you will and would cause serious issues for the miscreant. Anyway, moving on...

I could see the gray areas you wrestle with since at least part of their definition involves what is in another human's mind. More along the lines of, did the officer's know that the person they chased and caught was unconscious when they dog-piled him and broke his ribs? That's a toughie since reputations are easily ruined.
__________________
BigPhil - Pugs are furry and absorbent. Like a little barking tampon.
craig_o - Nothing says blind date like a graveyard and a shovel.
OxCops - Your mind, like a retarded kid and a fist-throwing crackhead, should be well restrained.....
GPalmer is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:49.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 566
146 Members
420 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31