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Old 06-04-2011, 14:45   #1
ICARRY2
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Milwaukee Police Chief not happy with proposed CCW law.

http://www.jsonline.mobi/123048453.htm
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Old 06-04-2011, 14:54   #2
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including basic training and not being a "criminal, drug abuser or insane."
Isn't is already illegal for any of those people to possess a gun or ammunition, much less carry concealed? yes.

I realize that maybe some hippies who know nothing about the issue can still scream "blood in the streets" but a police chief has no excuse - he either knows that 48 others states have proven that wrong, or he knows too little to run a police department.
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Old 06-04-2011, 14:58   #3
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A clearly lib chief suggesting adult supervision for Gov. Walker who has done more to stop excessive spending in his state instead of kicking the can down the road like every one of his predecessors?

Mandatory training for permit holders? Sure, make a $10-20 license cost $70+.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:01   #4
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Let these antis whine all they want. They're losing anyway.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:04   #5
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He will have to eat his words when the crime rate drops dramatically.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:05   #6
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Many, although not all, police chiefs are political appointees and therefore hacks. Since most large urban areas are run by liberal Democrats, it's no surprise when yet another one comes whining out of the closet against concealed carry by us regular folk.
They are at their heart elitists who think only they have the answers and that the American public at large is too damn dumb to take care of itself, which is why I hold them in very, very low esteem.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:10   #7
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.....

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Old 06-04-2011, 15:46   #8
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Illegal possession and carry of a firearm = felony and mandatory sentencing sounds good. Use it committing a crime and make it at least five years non-concurrent.

Judges have indeed been lax in sentencing for firearms violations.
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Old 06-04-2011, 15:50   #9
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Oh, yeah, and the Chief's choice of poster boy for his campaign against law abiding citizens carrying - piss poor.
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Old 06-04-2011, 16:33   #10
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It seems that both the Milwaukee Police Chief and the Milwaukee County Sheriff are in DIRE NEED of adult supervision.

The Citizens of the county should be screaming recall and of the city screaming recall on the mayor unless the Chief is removed or demoted to patrolman. Removed is easier legally. Demoted is much more of a slap that he deserves.
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Old 06-04-2011, 17:01   #11
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There is a lot of things I'm not happy about...... but you don't hear me *****ing about them in the paper.........
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:06   #12
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Originally Posted by JK-linux View Post
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This is not a political talking points issue. This is an officer safety issue. This is the second time in less than a week my officers have been in a gunbattle with armed, reckless assailants. We cannot afford a reckless bill.
Perhaps he should spend more time tracking down these "reckless assailants" than pontificating on legislation.
Doesn't that very example prove him WRONG? After all, that gun battle happened under current law - being a person who has to prove things with evidence daily, I'd consider myself an idiot if I used that argument, and so would the attorney (or pro se prison inmate) on the other side who easily turned it against me.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:18   #13
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Originally Posted by Lockback View Post
Many, although not all, police chiefs are political appointees and therefore hacks. Since most large urban areas are run by liberal Democrats, it's no surprise when yet another one comes whining out of the closet against concealed carry by us regular folk.
They are at their heart elitists who think only they have the answers and that the American public at large is too damn dumb to take care of itself, which is why I hold them in very, very low esteem.
That's pretty much right on. I suspect the rank and file are more supportive of citizens' RKBA.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:23   #14
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Originally Posted by Happy Hunting View Post
A clearly lib chief suggesting adult supervision for Gov. Walker who has done more to stop excessive spending in his state instead of kicking the can down the road like every one of his predecessors?

Mandatory training for permit holders? Sure, make a $10-20 license cost $70+.

Our licenes cost $144.25, $70 would be nice. We have to go through firearms training and take a class on the legal aspects of CC. The class was $50 over the price of the license. I don't like the fact that we had to pay that much for the license, but the class was worthwhile and I would do it again.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:23   #15
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"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It's up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family. This is not only acceptable, but mandatory".

Col. Jeff Cooper
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:23   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitebread View Post
He will have to eat his words when the crime rate drops dramatically.
I'm not totally convinced crime will "drop" (it may a little bit, but I doubt it will be dramatic)...

I am convinced that crime will either stay the same, or even go up... but none of that is going to be as a result of legally armed citizens.

I'm not really convinced CCW laws lower crime like proponents like to say.. However, even if crime goes up, unless those w/ CCW's are committing the crimes, the uptick is irrelevant... Criminals will be criminals.

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Old 06-05-2011, 06:32   #17
bandmasterjf
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Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak View Post
I'm not totally convinced crime will "drop" (it may a little bit, but I doubt it will be dramatic)...

I am convinced that crime will either stay the same, or even go up... but none of that is going to be as a result of legally armed citizens.

I'm not really convinced CCW laws lower crime like proponents like to say.. However, even if crime goes up, unless those w/ CCW's are committing the crimes, the uptick is irrelevant... Criminals will be criminals.

IGF
http://utahshootingsports.com/usscstudy.htm
Conclusion: Passage of concealed carry legislation in Utah does not fit the trends in crime rates experienced by other states that have passed similar laws. Previous research indicates that crimes against individuals decrease while crimes against property involving stealth increase after passage of conceal carry laws. In Utah:
1. Murder rates decreased overall after 1995. However, there was a marked increase in the murder rates committed by males in the 10-24 age group, probably due to gang violence.
2. Assault rates decreased at an accelerated rate.
3. Rape rates do not appear to be affected by the law.
4. Robbery rates decreased at a greater rate.
5. Crimes against property involving stealth (burglary, larceny, auto theft) did not increase as predicted and do not seem to be affected by the law.
6. The unintentional firearm injury rates decreased despite a 17-fold increase in permit holders, which indicates that responsible individuals carry guns.
7. Assaults and weapons possession in elementary schools show that these schools may be developing into a more hostile environment, while secondary schools do not appear to have changed.
8. Permit revocation reasons shows that permit holders do not use their firearms to commit crime.
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:01   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandmasterjf View Post
http://utahshootingsports.com/usscstudy.htm
Conclusion: Passage of concealed carry legislation in Utah does not fit the trends in crime rates experienced by other states that have passed similar laws. Previous research indicates that crimes against individuals decrease while crimes against property involving stealth increase after passage of conceal carry laws. In Utah:
1. Murder rates decreased overall after 1995. However, there was a marked increase in the murder rates committed by males in the 10-24 age group, probably due to gang violence.
2. Assault rates decreased at an accelerated rate.
3. Rape rates do not appear to be affected by the law.
4. Robbery rates decreased at a greater rate.
5. Crimes against property involving stealth (burglary, larceny, auto theft) did not increase as predicted and do not seem to be affected by the law.
6. The unintentional firearm injury rates decreased despite a 17-fold increase in permit holders, which indicates that responsible individuals carry guns.
7. Assaults and weapons possession in elementary schools show that these schools may be developing into a more hostile environment, while secondary schools do not appear to have changed.
8. Permit revocation reasons shows that permit holders do not use their firearms to commit crime.
We've had CCW here in Indiana since the late 70's/early 80's... obviously, crime has swung dramatically both ways here.. It's been low for periods, in the mid 90's, we were having record homicide numbers.

Some interesting articles I came across...
http://indianapolistimesblog.blogspo...cord-pace.html
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/27120557/detail.html
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-india...,3821888.story

Quote:
Fourteen were classified as "non criminal for a variety of reasons," bringing the number of murders in 2010 down to 96.


FWIW, this year, the closest I can find data, is May 21... we're at 45... so probably a similar pace to last year.

IGF
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Last edited by IndyGunFreak; 06-05-2011 at 08:14..
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Old 06-05-2011, 08:47   #19
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Originally Posted by Lockback View Post
Many, although not all, police chiefs are political appointees and therefore hacks. Since most large urban areas are run by liberal Democrats, it's no surprise when yet another one comes whining out of the closet against concealed carry by us regular folk.
They are at their heart elitists who think only they have the answers and that the American public at large is too damn dumb to take care of itself, which is why I hold them in very, very low esteem.
I concur!
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