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Old 06-16-2011, 08:08   #21
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Courts have always existed. Large awards funded by taxpayers is hardly a solution for the wrongs you cite.

Wrongs aren't also just the blatant wrongs you list. They also include bending the rules and redefining interaction with the law-abiding public. Stop casting wide nets and do the job.
when somebody is wronged by even an existing law, the courts look at it and change it if need be....Garner vs. Tenn. is a prime example.

but dont blame the cops for following the law when arresting somebody who isnt.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:02   #22
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The standard of exigent has changed. This was not something like a life-or-death emergency. Warrantless action was always limited to more exceptional circumstances. Some guy possibly smoking a joint is not grounds to knock down a door in that situation.
Prove it. Because I can show court cases going back generations that call destruction of evidence, even a joint, as exigent circumstances. But it's your assertion, so show us what exigency used to be.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:05   #23
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Some of you are right, cops and court are so bad these days. Next time you get in a wreck or robbed, call the plumber!
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:14   #24
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Prove it. Because I can show court cases going back generations that call destruction of evidence, even a joint, as exigent circumstances. But it's your assertion, so show us what exigency used to be.
It's not exigent if they can get a warrant. The police could have easily gotten a warrant in this case.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:17   #25
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but dont blame the cops for following the law when arresting somebody who isnt.
The trend is to cast wide nets and deal with a lot of people who are not breaking the law.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:46   #26
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the cops are playing by the rules the judges whom you elected enacted.

since you dont like you should change the law. and doing it starts with election of different judges, not talking crap about cops following the current law.
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You're right; some judges have dropped the ball on these issues. Some judges don't even know how rules are being bent and how limits are being redefined in the real world. Pointing to another branch of government however, is still no excuse for law enforcement not doing its job.
Thanks for making cowboywannabe's point, one I've made frequently. It is easy to attack the symptoms, but if you do not cure the root problem, the symptoms keep reappearing.

Your response skips right over his suggestion you work to change the basic problem and refocuses on law enforcement. You need to refocus your attacks.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:51   #27
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It's not exigent if they can get a warrant. The police could have easily gotten a warrant in this case.
Really? And the argument to the judge would have been what?
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:54   #28
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It's not exigent if they can get a warrant. The police could have easily gotten a warrant in this case.
And where would the evidence have been? Gone. Therefore, it was exigent. See, you're only giving part of the definition of exigency. Yes, it is absolutely required that the police could get a warrant for the premises before they enter: crime in progress, person dying, whatever. It then becomes exigent when the time used to get that warrant allows the harm to be done. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then he would have finished stabbing her. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then the evidence would be destroyed. Therefore, I made warrantless entry, and the court can judge the reasonableness of my decision.

Are you dropping the claim that the standards for exigency have changed? Just want to know so that I don't badger you about it.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:59   #29
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Really? And the argument to the judge would have been what?
You would have to argue with a judge on this? How about presenting your facts the way it is normally done.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:09   #30
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And where would the evidence have been? Gone. Therefore, it was exigent. See, you're only giving part of the definition of exigency. Yes, it is absolutely required that the police could get a warrant for the premises before they enter: crime in progress, person dying, whatever. It then becomes exigent when the time used to get that warrant allows the harm to be done. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then he would have finished stabbing her. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then the evidence would be destroyed. Therefore, I made warrantless entry, and the court can judge the reasonableness of my decision.

Are you dropping the claim that the standards for exigency have changed? Just want to know so that I don't badger you about it.
Don't take my word for it. Just look at all of the dozens of botched raids in the past couple of decades. It's no accident that these foul-ups coincide with increased militarization, including introduction of SWAT for things like weed. Ask that mayor why the boneheads had to shoot his two labs. "Oh, gee sorry, Mayor, guess we'll have to buy you a couple of dogs." Sure, go ahead and be sloppy and point to someone else. The taxpayers will always foot the bill in the name of your new found exigencies.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:13   #31
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Thanks for making cowboywannabe's point, one I've made frequently. It is easy to attack the symptoms, but if you do not cure the root problem, the symptoms keep reappearing.

Your response skips right over his suggestion you work to change the basic problem and refocuses on law enforcement. You need to refocus your attacks.
You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:14   #32
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Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
Don't take my word for it. Just look at all of the dozens of botched raids in the past couple of decades. It's no accident that these foul-ups coincide with increased militarization, including introduction of SWAT for things like weed. Ask that mayor why the boneheads had to shoot his two labs. "Oh, gee sorry, Mayor, guess we'll have to buy you a couple of dogs." Sure, go ahead and be sloppy and point to someone else. The taxpayers will always foot the bill in the name of your new found exigencies.
that would mean that the number is less than 1% when you factor in all the "raids" done in the same time frame. thats better odds than what a doctor gives you or car mechanic or anybody.....

and policing has been resticted more and more over the decades.....lots of things that cant be done as S.O.P. that were done decades ago......
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:16   #33
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You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
not at all.

the legislative, juditial, and executive are the branches of government i was taught.

the police cant enforce any law until its been through those three branches, and even then its up for re-examination when ever it goes to court.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:20   #34
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You would have to argue with a judge on this? How about presenting your facts the way it is normally done.
Okay, then what facts would have been presented to the judge?
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:23   #35
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not at all.

the legislative, juditial, and executive are the branches of government i was taught.

the police cant enforce any law until its been through those three branches, and even then its up for re-examination when ever it goes to court.
The police fall under executive. They enforce laws.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:24   #36
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Okay, then what facts would have been presented to the judge?
You tell me. The police knocked down the door.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:26   #37
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You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
Me? Really? How so, me personally?

You say, "Law enforcement is one branch of government...", don't you mean Judicial?
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:35   #38
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You tell me. The police knocked down the door.
I'll take that as confirmation you have no idea.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:38   #39
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The police fall under executive. They enforce laws.
Wait, you said law enforcement is the third branch. Which is it you want them to be?
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:49   #40
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that would mean that the number is less than 1% when you factor in all the "raids" done in the same time frame. thats better odds than what a doctor gives you or car mechanic or anybody.....
I am talking about the increase of raids over the decades. The percentage can still be the same, but the raw numbers will increase. Those raw numbers take the form of innocent people being harmed or killed.
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