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06-16-2011, 10:46
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#26
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Location: Central Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
the cops are playing by the rules the judges whom you elected enacted.
since you dont like you should change the law. and doing it starts with election of different judges, not talking crap about cops following the current law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You're right; some judges have dropped the ball on these issues. Some judges don't even know how rules are being bent and how limits are being redefined in the real world. Pointing to another branch of government however, is still no excuse for law enforcement not doing its job.
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Thanks for making cowboywannabe's point, one I've made frequently. It is easy to attack the symptoms, but if you do not cure the root problem, the symptoms keep reappearing.
Your response skips right over his suggestion you work to change the basic problem and refocuses on law enforcement. You need to refocus your attacks.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 10:51
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#27
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
It's not exigent if they can get a warrant. The police could have easily gotten a warrant in this case.
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Really? And the argument to the judge would have been what?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 10:54
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#28
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Posts: 19,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
It's not exigent if they can get a warrant. The police could have easily gotten a warrant in this case.
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And where would the evidence have been? Gone. Therefore, it was exigent. See, you're only giving part of the definition of exigency. Yes, it is absolutely required that the police could get a warrant for the premises before they enter: crime in progress, person dying, whatever. It then becomes exigent when the time used to get that warrant allows the harm to be done. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then he would have finished stabbing her. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then the evidence would be destroyed. Therefore, I made warrantless entry, and the court can judge the reasonableness of my decision.
Are you dropping the claim that the standards for exigency have changed? Just want to know so that I don't badger you about it.
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
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06-16-2011, 10:59
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
Really? And the argument to the judge would have been what?
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You would have to argue with a judge on this? How about presenting your facts the way it is normally done.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 11:09
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#30
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade
And where would the evidence have been? Gone. Therefore, it was exigent. See, you're only giving part of the definition of exigency. Yes, it is absolutely required that the police could get a warrant for the premises before they enter: crime in progress, person dying, whatever. It then becomes exigent when the time used to get that warrant allows the harm to be done. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then he would have finished stabbing her. I could have gotten a warrant, but by then the evidence would be destroyed. Therefore, I made warrantless entry, and the court can judge the reasonableness of my decision.
Are you dropping the claim that the standards for exigency have changed? Just want to know so that I don't badger you about it.
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Don't take my word for it. Just look at all of the dozens of botched raids in the past couple of decades. It's no accident that these foul-ups coincide with increased militarization, including introduction of SWAT for things like weed. Ask that mayor why the boneheads had to shoot his two labs. "Oh, gee sorry, Mayor, guess we'll have to buy you a couple of dogs." Sure, go ahead and be sloppy and point to someone else. The taxpayers will always foot the bill in the name of your new found exigencies.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 11:13
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
Thanks for making cowboywannabe's point, one I've made frequently. It is easy to attack the symptoms, but if you do not cure the root problem, the symptoms keep reappearing.
Your response skips right over his suggestion you work to change the basic problem and refocuses on law enforcement. You need to refocus your attacks.
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You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 11:14
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#32
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you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
Don't take my word for it. Just look at all of the dozens of botched raids in the past couple of decades. It's no accident that these foul-ups coincide with increased militarization, including introduction of SWAT for things like weed. Ask that mayor why the boneheads had to shoot his two labs. "Oh, gee sorry, Mayor, guess we'll have to buy you a couple of dogs." Sure, go ahead and be sloppy and point to someone else. The taxpayers will always foot the bill in the name of your new found exigencies.
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that would mean that the number is less than 1% when you factor in all the "raids" done in the same time frame. thats better odds than what a doctor gives you or car mechanic or anybody.....
and policing has been resticted more and more over the decades.....lots of things that cant be done as S.O.P. that were done decades ago......
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
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06-16-2011, 11:16
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#33
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you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
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not at all.
the legislative, juditial, and executive are the branches of government i was taught.
the police cant enforce any law until its been through those three branches, and even then its up for re-examination when ever it goes to court.
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
Last edited by cowboywannabe; 06-16-2011 at 11:16..
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06-16-2011, 11:20
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#34
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 39,202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You would have to argue with a judge on this? How about presenting your facts the way it is normally done.
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Okay, then what facts would have been presented to the judge?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 11:23
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
not at all.
the legislative, juditial, and executive are the branches of government i was taught.
the police cant enforce any law until its been through those three branches, and even then its up for re-examination when ever it goes to court.
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The police fall under executive. They enforce laws.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 11:24
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
Okay, then what facts would have been presented to the judge?
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You tell me. The police knocked down the door.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 11:26
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#37
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 39,202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You are part the problem. Law enforcement is one branch of government, equal with the other two branches.
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Me? Really? How so, me personally?
You say, "Law enforcement is one branch of government...", don't you mean Judicial?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 11:35
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#38
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 39,202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You tell me. The police knocked down the door.
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I'll take that as confirmation you have no idea.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 11:38
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#39
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 39,202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
The police fall under executive. They enforce laws.
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Wait, you said law enforcement is the third branch. Which is it you want them to be?
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 11:49
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
that would mean that the number is less than 1% when you factor in all the "raids" done in the same time frame. thats better odds than what a doctor gives you or car mechanic or anybody.....
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I am talking about the increase of raids over the decades. The percentage can still be the same, but the raw numbers will increase. Those raw numbers take the form of innocent people being harmed or killed.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 12:07
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
I'll take that as confirmation you have no idea.
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I'll take that as confirmation you didn't watch the video, see the case, or even bother to read the posts.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 13:17
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#42
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 39,202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
I'll take that as confirmation you didn't watch the video, see the case, or even bother to read the posts.
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Come on, you know better than that.
The video in your original post is hardly balanced and in no way is it inclusive of all facts related to the subjects. He'd rather the police be used to fix sidewalks and clean up, as in sweep, the streets, keeping them free of refuse/trash, like in the old days.
That was funny, me not know facts before commenting. 
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.
Kind of like on the internet forums - People continually flip someone off who they know is obligated to not break the rules in response. Yeah, that type of stupidity eventually yields the rewards it earns.
And then there are those trying so hard to be offended that they're imagining things that haven't even been said in a thread.
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06-16-2011, 13:29
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#43
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you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
I am talking about the increase of raids over the decades. The percentage can still be the same, but the raw numbers will increase. Those raw numbers take the form of innocent people being harmed or killed.
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crime has increased, so "raids" have increase.
guess what? the number of cars on the road have increased and so have the number of car wrecks.....
your logic in this statement makes no sence.
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
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06-16-2011, 13:31
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#44
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you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
The police fall under executive. They enforce laws.
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again, only after you have voted for the people whom enacted such laws. so the police are enforcing laws you wanted only after you, via proxy of your voting in the politicians whom made the laws.
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
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06-16-2011, 16:58
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#45
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
crime has increased...
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Says who?
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 16:59
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
again, only after you have voted for the people whom enacted such laws. so the police are enforcing laws you wanted only after you, via proxy of your voting in the politicians whom made the laws.
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You are shifting the responsibility. The police are an equal branch of government.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 17:05
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP
He'd rather the police be used to fix sidewalks and clean up, as in sweep, the streets, keeping them free of refuse/trash, like in the old days.
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Considering that the police have tried to make their jobs easier by casting the wide nets, they might as well sweep. At least it's something useful.
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 17:27
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#48
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Lifetime Membership
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Join Date: May 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty
You are shifting the responsibility. The police are an equal branch of government.
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This is so silly that I have to be reading it wrong. Watchyutalkinbout?
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
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06-16-2011, 17:36
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#49
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Posts: 4,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade
This is so silly that I have to be reading it wrong. Watchyutalkinbout?
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What are you talking about?
__________________
Ron Paul-Rand Paul 2016!!!
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06-16-2011, 17:49
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#50
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Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 19,870
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"The police are an equal branch of government."
That's silly. You can't possibly mean that, so what do you mean?
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
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