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Old 06-19-2011, 18:04   #41
jjboogie
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Originally Posted by achysklic View Post
If you like I can go into great detail and spend much time teaching you about God and His commands. As of right now you don't know the difference between Mosiac code and Gods commandments. If you are truely sincere and want the truth and are willing to learn then by all means I will put the effort into it. If you are not then by all means continue in your lawlessness.

May I ask you though are you without sin?

1john 3:4 sin is the transgression of the law......(No law no sin)

If you only keep the 10 commandments and reject the rest of Gods law I have to ask, why?

Here is a hint Jesus was the word of the OT, He was the creator, He gave all the commands. Al the Sabbaths are His, this is why He said He is Lord of the Sabbath! So in other words Jesus gave the Old cov. He also gave the New conv. Did Jesus ever not keep any of the commandments up to His death?

Or in other words.He was the One who gave the Holy Days to Israel (Lev. 23). He was the YHWH, or God of Israel (I Cor. 10:4), made flesh. He was the Word who was God, who became flesh (John 1:1-4, 14). He was only doing what He Himself told Israel to do centuries earlier.

I wouldn't waste my time with this conversation if I wasn't interested in truth. If there is something about the bible I don't know of I want to learn however it is my understanding that there is no difference between the Mosaic law otherwise known as the Law and God's commandments. They are all considered the same.

Make your case but please be brief about each point. I can't stand when folks post enough words to make up a 3,000 page book in one post! LOL

Last edited by jjboogie; 06-19-2011 at 18:42..
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Old 06-19-2011, 18:36   #42
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Colossians 2:14,16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross....................... Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
This says nothing of the Law. It is speaking of sin. Nothing more. And all these Sabbaths are a shadow of things to come. To come. Also, the "is" at the end was added. Leave it out and it makes much more sense.
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Old 06-19-2011, 22:09   #43
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This says nothing of the Law. It is speaking of sin. Nothing more. And all these Sabbaths are a shadow of things to come. To come. Also, the "is" at the end was added. Leave it out and it makes much more sense.

What was Paul speaking about then?

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Old 06-19-2011, 22:15   #44
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This says nothing of the Law. It is speaking of sin. Nothing more. And all these Sabbaths are a shadow of things to come. To come. Also, the "is" at the end was added. Leave it out and it makes much more sense.
It is hard to understand your denial. What does this sentence mean to you? What are the ordinances to you? Are they sin? What does it mean to blot out?

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us"
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:40   #45
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The Seventh day Sabbath was from creation and honors God for what he has done in creating and redeeming us.

The Ten commandments are the moral law. That was kept seperate from the Book of the Law written by Moses.
The Book of the Law had all the services and feast days in it. It was put in a pocket outside the ark. The Ten Commandments written by the finger of God were inside the ark.

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice this text is referring to the handwritten law of Moses. These holy days are not now an obligation.

Colossians 2:14,16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross....................... Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
It’s surprising, but one of the main “proofs” used by some to “knock in the head” the Sabbath and Holy Days is Colossians 2:16. This “proof text,” when viewed in context, instead of proving that they were “done away” proves that a gentile church (at Colosse) actually kept the Holy Days!
Notice the key verses: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ” (Col. 2:16-17).
Paul does not here say, “Do not keep Holy Days or Sabbaths,” though that is what many people read into the text.
To start with, he warns them not to let a man judge them concerning the matters he then mentions. If they were not to let any man judge them in these matters, who was supposed to judge?
The answer is somewhat obscured by an added word in verse 17. This word, in the King James Version, is indicated by the italic type, meaning that there is no equivalent word in the Greek, but that the word was added by the translators in the hope that the passage would be more clear in English. In this case, though, it obscures the point.
Here is the specific phrase: “But the body is of Christ.” This should read “But the body of Christ.”
Here simply, is what Paul is saying in these two verses: “Don’t let any man judge you … but let the Body of Christ judge you.”
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:45   #46
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The Seventh day Sabbath was from creation and honors God for what he has done in creating and redeeming us.

The Ten commandments are the moral law. That was kept seperate from the Book of the Law written by Moses.
The Book of the Law had all the services and feast days in it. It was put in a pocket outside the ark. The Ten Commandments written by the finger of God were inside the ark.

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

.
Vic you are confusing Mosaic code with Gods commands, Mosaic code isn't in question here.

So I ask again, On the 2 greatest commandments hang "ALL THE LAW AND PROPHETS"
Vic please tell me what is the law and prophets Jesus was referring to in the OT?

Also Vic do you think God only Taught Adam to keep the Sabbath at creation? God wrote all His laws on Adams heart! He walked with Adam every day in the garden teaching him. Why do you think cains offering was rejected by God?

So just don't pick one of Gods commands given at creation and reject His other laws.

Last edited by achysklic; 06-20-2011 at 03:51..
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:52   #47
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It is hard to understand your denial. What does this sentence mean to you? What are the ordinances to you? Are they sin? What does it mean to blot out?

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us"
It's our sin. This is what He nailed to His stake. Along with the chirographon (written list of violations) that was nailed to His own stake. "King of the Jews". If He wanted to say the Torah was nailed to His cross, don't you think Paul would have just said Torah instead of chirographon trois dogmasin? The word Law isn't anywhere in the entire book. And His commandments certainly aren't dogma. John calls sin violation of the Torah. Paul calls it holy, righteous, good, and spiritual. Messiah says that not one jot or tittle will pass from it and that anyone who teaches against even the least of the commands will be least in the Kingdom. Does this sound like it's gone?

I'm still confused as to how people think YHWH gave Israel a bunch of commandments to keep, that He counted as sin against them if they didn't, when He intended to do away with them anyway? Do people think it was some kind of cruel joke?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:34   #48
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Vic you are confusing Mosaic code with Gods commands, Mosaic code isn't in question here.

So I ask again, On the 2 greatest commandments hang "ALL THE LAW AND PROPHETS"
Vic please tell me what is the law and prophets Jesus was referring to in the OT?

Also Vic do you think God only Taught Adam to keep the Sabbath at creation? God wrote all His laws on Adams heart! He walked with Adam every day in the garden teaching him. Why do you think cains offering was rejected by God?

So just don't pick one of Gods commands given at creation and reject His other laws.
Types no longer are required since the reality has arrived 2000 years ago. Holy days and sabbaths are include in what was taken away.

Fulfillment of the New Covenant over the Old Covenant made the Old Covenant Obsolete.

Not judging according to Holy days, sabbaths, and meat and drink, means that these things have been done away with in the New Covenant.

God did not make a bunch of rules and rituals without meaning. What is the meaning of Pentecost?

First fruits offering?

What does this mean concerning the Church?
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:45   #49
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Colossians 2:14,16 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross....................... Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
This passage tells us not to let man judge us in keeping these days. Only the Body of Messiah. It infers we will be keeping them. In context it's about these former non believers not letting the world judge them for keeping them, in contrast to the pagan festivals, etc. I don't see how this supports what you're saying.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:46   #50
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What does this mean concerning the Church?
Awesome question Vic....actually each and everyone of the Holy Days pics Gods plan for mankind, starting at Passover.

Pentecost pics Jesus coming and gathering His church at the first resurrection.

I urge you to download the pdf of this book. It explains Gods Holy Days and there meaning better than any other book I have found.

http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html
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Old 06-20-2011, 16:43   #51
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Awesome question Vic....actually each and everyone of the Holy Days pics Gods plan for mankind, starting at Passover.

Pentecost pics Jesus coming and gathering His church at the first resurrection.

I urge you to download the pdf of this book. It explains Gods Holy Days and there meaning better than any other book I have found.

http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html
I disagree with you unless you mean the resurrection of Jesus.

II Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

I am not against Christians keeping Pentecost, just that it is not an obligation for an uncircumcised Gentile.
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Old 06-20-2011, 17:05   #52
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I disagree with you unless you mean the resurrection of Jesus.

II Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

I am not against Christians keeping Pentecost, just that it is not an obligation for an uncircumcised Gentile.
That ok Vic, but There is no way Pentecost could pic Jesus resurrection though.

Go ahead dl that book I posted the link to. I promise you every question you have about the Holy Days is addressed with Gods word.

What do you have to lose?

Also to help you understand About Pentecost, you asked previously how I kept Pentecost, well part of it was having a Holy Conv. "a service" So I am posting here for you the exact sermon I had on the Day Of Pentecost.

Enjoy

http://www.cbcg.org/feasts_holydays/...ost2011_50.htm
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Old 06-20-2011, 22:30   #53
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If Pentacost was the beginning of the "NT Church", (which makes no sense to me), how can it not be a NT Holy Day? And if i is, and I don't know of a church that doesn't celebrate it, what does that say about the other days? Obviously they too should be kept. The Apostles certainly kept them. And if they should be kept, what does that say about the other commandments of the "Old Testament"? Where do you draw the line? More than the 10 Commandments, but less than the whole Torah?

Perhaps it would be best to figure out what part of the Mosaic Covenant was ended. And luckily, the Bible tells us. It was the sacrificial system. Nothing else.
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Old 06-20-2011, 23:16   #54
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Perhaps it would be best to figure out what part of the Mosaic Covenant was ended. And luckily, the Bible tells us. It was the sacrificial system. Nothing else.

Where does the bible teach that only the sacrificial system was ended?
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:12   #55
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Where does the bible teach that only the sacrificial system was ended?
Because Jesus was the lamb of God, His death paid the penalty, hense sacrifices ended, nothing else.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:29   #56
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Where does the bible teach that only the sacrificial system was ended?
Where does the Bible teach that anything else but that was ended? It doesn't.

Because the Covenant is based on the Torah, Messiah, being written on out hearts. Jer 31. The only part of the Mosaic Covenant that didn't include the sacrifices was the Torah. The Tabernacle was added because of transgression. That second trip up the mountain that Moses made? Then God said, "Behold, I make a new covenant"? The first time all he got was the Torah. Everything else stays the same. "...not one jot or tittle". Which is why the correct translation is actually Renewed Covenant, not New Covenant.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

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Old 06-21-2011, 08:06   #57
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Where does the Bible teach that anything else but that was ended? It doesn't.

Because the Covenant is based on the Torah, Messiah, being written on out hearts. Jer 31. The only part of the Mosaic Covenant that didn't include the sacrifices was the Torah. The Tabernacle was added because of transgression. That second trip up the mountain that Moses made? Then God said, "Behold, I make a new covenant"? The first time all he got was the Torah. Everything else stays the same. "...not one jot or tittle". Which is why the correct translation is actually Renewed Covenant, not New Covenant.

Is the Torah the Law of the Lord and the Commandments?
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:28   #58
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Is the Torah the Law of the Lord and the Commandments?

The Old test (Torah) Is set up in 3 divisions
Divions 1 is called the Law
It consists of
Gen
Ex.
Lev
Numbers
Duet.

Divsion 2 is called The Prophets
It consist of
The former prophets
Joshua
Judges
The Book of Kingdoms
1&2 Samuel
1&2 Kings

The latter of the Major Prophets
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel

The Minor Prophets
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

Division 3 The Writings

Psalms
Proverbs
Job
Songs of Solomon
Ruth
Lamentations
ECCL.
Ezra/ Nehemiah
1&2 Chronicles

So when Jesus on the 2 greatest commandments hangs all the LAW AND PROPHETS, He was referring to the first 2 divisions of the OT or Torah.

If you don't understand How God gave His laws you can't understand how or why to keep them.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:58   #59
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The Old test (Torah) Is set up in 3 divisions
Divions 1 is called the Law
It consists of
Gen
Ex.
Lev
Numbers
Duet.

Divsion 2 is called The Prophets
It consist of
The former prophets
Joshua
Judges
The Book of Kingdoms
1&2 Samuel
1&2 Kings

The latter of the Major Prophets
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Ezekiel

The Minor Prophets
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi

Division 3 The Writings

Psalms
Proverbs
Job
Songs of Solomon
Ruth
Lamentations
ECCL.
Ezra/ Nehemiah
1&2 Chronicles

So when Jesus on the 2 greatest commandments hangs all the LAW AND PROPHETS, He was referring to the first 2 divisions of the OT or Torah.

If you don't understand How God gave His laws you can't understand how or why to keep them.


How come the NT never makes distinctions between the divisions of the law except the law and the prophets?

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Old 06-21-2011, 09:26   #60
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There is no division of the Law. The TeNaK, which stands for Torah, Navim (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings) was the only book there was. When they refrence the Torah, it's usually an inclusive phrase. It's a division of the types of books, not a divsion of the Law iteself. The traditional order of the Books in the Tenach, or Old Testament, is not the same as Christian Bibles. They are ordered differently.
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