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Old 06-24-2011, 14:36   #101
Kingarthurhk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjboogie View Post
Peter never gives a "celestial equivalent" to earth years here in 2 Peter 3:8. Here a thousand years emphasizes how slowly God moves (from our human perspective). In Psalm 90 the view is from the opposite angle: (our) time flies quickly!

Peter says the that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

He NEVER says they are equivalents!



There is absolutely nothing to suggest 1000 years is literal in an apocalyptic book filled with imagery and poetic writings.
Please allow me to assist:

http://www.1000yearmillennium.com/
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Old 06-24-2011, 16:44   #102
Brasso
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There are quite a few points left out of that scenario. The number of Scripture passages that are running through my head right now that directly contradict that article are too numerous to even attempt to write down.
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Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.

Last edited by Brasso; 06-24-2011 at 17:14..
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:24   #103
Foxterriermom
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Originally Posted by FifthFreedom View Post
Taking that out of context. I'll explain it to you when i get a chance

I thought the same. I am looking forward to your response. Thank you.

FTM
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:41   #104
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Originally Posted by Foxterriermom View Post
I thought the same. I am looking forward to your response. Thank you.

FTM


OK, the topic discussed in that section of Deuteronomy is a husband who comes to hate his wife and tries to void the Kesubah by accusing her of adultery.

Verse 21 reads: they shall take the girl out to the entrance of her father's house, and the men of her city shall pelt her with stones, and she shall die, for she did a disgraceful thing in Israel, to commit adultery [in] her father's house. So shall you clear away the evil from among you.

But how can this be? How could she have committed adultery before she was married?

There are two stages in Jewish marriage: kiddushin and nesuin.
kiddushin is effected when the groom gives his bride a ring or something of the sort and makes the declaration that, nowadays, is recited under the marriage canopy. For the lack of the English word that approximates this legal status, kiddushin is sometimes translated as "betrothal" but in truth, kiddushin establishes a far stronger legal obligation and statuis than a simple engagement ( see Numbers 30:7)
After kiddushin, the couple is halachally married in several respects, and she is liable to the death penalty for adultery. The marriage takes full effect with the nesuin after which, the couple may cohabit. In this passage, the husband accuses his new wife of not being a virgin. If true, and it can be proven she had commited adultery after kiddushin, she would be subject to the death penalty. If adultery cannot be proven, even if it is true that she is not a virgin at the time of kiddushin, she is not liable to any punishment by the court, because she may have lived with another man before the kiddushin.
Even so, she would not be entitled to collect the divorce settlement stipulated in her marriage contract, or the kesubah because she falsely represented herself as a virgin.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:44   #105
ArtificialGrape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthFreedom View Post
OK, the topic discussed in that section of Deuteronomy is a husband who comes to hate his wife and tries to void the Kesubah by accusing her of adultery.

Verse 21 reads: they shall take the girl out to the entrance of her father's house, and the men of her city shall pelt her with stones, and she shall die, for she did a disgraceful thing in Israel, to commit adultery [in] her father's house. So shall you clear away the evil from among you.

But how can this be? How could she have committed adultery before she was married?

There are two stages in Jewish marriage: kiddushin and nesuin.
kiddushin is effected when the groom gives his bride a ring or something of the sort and makes the declaration that, nowadays, is recited under the marriage canopy. For the lack of the English word that approximates this legal status, kiddushin is sometimes translated as "betrothal" but in truth, kiddushin establishes a far stronger legal obligation and statuis than a simple engagement ( see Numbers 30:7)
After kiddushin, the couple is halachally married in several respects, and she is liable to the death penalty for adultery. The marriage takes full effect with the nesuin after which, the couple may cohabit. In this passage, the husband accuses his new wife of not being a virgin. If true, and it can be proven she had commited adultery after kiddushin, she would be subject to the death penalty. If adultery cannot be proven, even if it is true that she is not a virgin at the time of kiddushin, she is not liable to any punishment by the court, because she may have lived with another man before the kiddushin.
Even so, she would not be entitled to collect the divorce settlement stipulated in her marriage contract, or the kesubah because she falsely represented herself as a virgin.
So if the woman was never married, but had sex with another man prior to the kiddushin, but never after, could she still be put to death? Afterall, the parents would not be able to produce the bloody bed sheet if the accusation arose.

Could she disclose in their kesubah that she was not a virgin?

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:48   #106
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Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
So if the woman was never married, but had sex with another man prior to the kiddushin, but never after, could she still be put to death? Afterall, the parents would not be able to produce the bloody bed sheet if the accusation arose.

Could she disclose in their kesubah that she was not a virgin?

-ArtificialGrape
No. She could only be put to death if it was proven she had sex after kiddushin with another man. an unmarried woman have pre-marital sex is not a death penalty situation.

Yes she could disclose that. In this situation however, she would lose it if she presented herself as one when in fact she wasn't

Last edited by FifthFreedom; 06-27-2011 at 09:49..
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